Playing with Hornby Dublo 3 rail again

[Wolseley]

All I now have to do is fit it with a spare Dublo third rail pick-up I have (I have three of them in a drawer - which will leave me one for some future project by the time I finish the Cities) and touch up a few scratches on the tender.

 

 

I just looked in the drawer and found I had two more pickups than I thought I did.  Maybe I need to buy two more two rail locomotives to convert.....

[Il Grifone]

I just looked in the drawer and found I had two more pickups than I thought I did.  Maybe I need to buy two more two rail locomotives to convert.....

 

Treasure trove!   :)

[sagaguy]

A bit of a rarity,a Heljan EM1 with pantographs that actually contact the wire.I think i`ve sourced a miniature slide switch that will be used to switch the supply from track to overhead.Runs well without snagging.I now have a Heljan EM2 for which I will need another two Trix pantographs.I will do a video but at the moment,it`s only a short length of OHLE.

 

 

 

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Switch sourced from All components,this does work

 

 

 

 

 

 

                                       Ray.

 

[sagaguy]

Whoops,not used to iPad now `& again.

[sagaguy]

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On test today,runs like a dream picking up from the overhead line,it`s controlled by a Gaugemaster walkabout HH controller seperate from the track.It now means that i can control two locos on the same track under independent control ala Trix twin.I think i managed to blow up one of my gaugemaster HHs by stuffing 16v ac up the 12v dc line,amatter of the golden rule,check connections before switching on☹️Now i need two more Trix pantographs for my Heljan EM2.

[GoingUnderground]

On test today,runs like a dream picking up from the overhead line,it`s controlled by a Gaugemaster walkabout HH controller seperate from the track.It now means that i can control two locos on the same track under independent control ala Trix twin.I think i managed to blow up one of my gaugemaster HHs by stuffing 16v ac up the 12v dc line,amatter of the golden rule,check connections before switching on☹️Now i need two more Trix pantographs for my Heljan EM2.

I think you mean a la Triang in 1959, as Trix Twin plus catenary is 3 locos under independent control. I always found that pickup from the catenary was never a problem. You will find that you will need isolating gaps in the catenary wire if you leave the pans up as without the gaps the entire catenary is live as presumably your running rails are the common return.

 

You also need to remember that you need 2 independently powered controllers, i.e. Separate secondary windings on the transformer like the H&M Duette or Triang P6. If they're not independent you'll get a short if you reverse the polarity on one supply. When I got the Triang catenary, I had to get a Duette as my Triang P5 controller didn't have independent outputs.

 

Great to hear that someone else uses catenary pickup.

[sagaguy]

They are two independant circuits powered by two independent controllers from two independent transformer units.The beauty of OHLE equipped locomotives is that to isolate,i only need to lower the pantographs.Junctions are a problem getting the wire across another independent circuit with out interaction.

 

                  Interesting though,the whole thing started out to see if i could do it.

 

                                    Ray.

[GoingUnderground]

They are two independant circuits powered by two independent controllers from two independent transformer units.The beauty of OHLE equipped locomotives is that to isolate,i only need to lower the pantographs.Junctions are a problem getting the wire across another independent circuit with out interaction.

 

Interesting though,the whole thing started out to see if i could do it.

 

Ray.

Triang made special nylon clips for diamond crossings which kept the crossing catenary wires insulated from each other. And you didn't have to lower the pans on Triang locos, just move the selector switch to the centre position. It was well thought out. Edited August 14, 2018 by GoingUnderground

[Robin Brasher]

No Hornby Dublo E3000 pantograph electric locomotives on our layout at Winterborne Kingston last night but our layout shows how much can be included in a small space. The owner could take the layout home on his hatchback without dismantling anything. In addition to the usual Hornby Dublo items I exhibited my Revell Spad biplane that I made about 40 years ago. Another interesting item is the Dinky Toys Austin 7. A bit big for 1/76 scale but it fits in well.

[NCB]

Nice! What are the dimensions of the board?

[Robin Brasher]

Nice! What are the dimensions of the board?

I think it is 6' x 4'.

[MikeCW]

For you Hornby Dublo enthusiasts here are a couple of Bristol Castles in a completely different disguise.

 

One is a Star class loco and is ALL Dublo.  The cab sides have had all rivet detail removed and filed to remove the rear window, a piece of brass was placed behind the front one and then soldered up to fill the space (the casting had a small chamfer filed in to hold the solder in place).  The roof was cut back and a small spacer fitted between the black and copper top chimney to lift it.  The tender body had all rivets removed then about 5mm taken off the bottom to lower it but still leaving space for the plungers to work.

Garry,

 

It may seem odd going back two and a half years but I was searching for information on converting a Castle to a Star and stumbled on your December 2015 Post. Accepting that the Star boiler profile is slightly different from that of the larger Castle boiler, (at least so I'm told; I'm a LNWR/LMS man myself) your conversion looks the part and is exactly what I had been considering.  A couple of questions if I may.  You said that you soldered in a brass plate to blank off the Castle cab window.  Can the HD casting be soldered?  If so, low melt or regular?  I don't want to wade in with a large iron and melt anything!

 

Second, you didn't mention frame modifications.  I assume that the windowless cab is shorter than the original which, in turn, would mean shortening the frame at the rear?  If so, how were the footsteps retained or reinstated.  A photo of the frame would be great but any information would be gratefully received.

 

Mike

[Golden Fleece 30]

Garry,

 

It may seem odd going back two and a half years but I was searching for information on converting a Castle to a Star and stumbled on your December 2015 Post. Accepting that the Star boiler profile is slightly different from that of the larger Castle boiler, (at least so I'm told; I'm a LNWR/LMS man myself) your conversion looks the part and is exactly what I had been considering.  A couple of questions if I may.  You said that you soldered in a brass plate to blank off the Castle cab window.  Can the HD casting be soldered?  If so, low melt or regular?  I don't want to wade in with a large iron and melt anything!

 

Second, you didn't mention frame modifications.  I assume that the windowless cab is shorter than the original which, in turn, would mean shortening the frame at the rear?  If so, how were the footsteps retained or reinstated.  A photo of the frame would be great but any information would be gratefully received.

 

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

The HD castings cannot be soldered but a lot higher melting point than normal solder so what I did was file a bevel on all sides of the window then filled it with solder to a brass plate on the inside slightly larger than the window.  Having the bevel prevents the solder being pushed out, I prefer solder to the likes of Milliput, car filler etc.

 

The cab should be smaller but I think I decided to just leave it and therefore the chassis has not been touched.  The cab cut out is not actually the correct shape as the rear window is in the way so I just filed it to look reasonable but get around the window position.

 

Removing the chimney cap allows a small spacer to be inserted to give the extra height.

 

The tender had a few millimeters removed from its base but still tall enough to allow the plungers to work.

 

Have you seen the Castle to County conversion too?

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

It`s really annoying that as you wire signals & points etc,you have the HD switches but the terminal nuts are missing.These are quite time consuming to make.I`ve just spent about 3 hours making these nuts,mind you,that included time spent looking for a knurling tool which i knew i had but couldn`t remember where i`d put it for safety

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ray

Edited September 17, 2018 by sagaguy

[Golden Fleece 30]

It`s really annoying that as you wire signals & points etc,you have the HD switches but the terminal nuts are missing.These are quite time consuming to make.I`ve just spent about 3 hours making these nuts,mind you,that included time spent looking for a knurling tool which i knew i had but couldn`t remember where i`d put it for safety

 

 

 

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Ray

Good job nobody is paying you an hourly rate lol.

 

I like the small holding chuck (if so how is it mounted?) or is that your knurling tool?

 

Garry

[sagaguy]

Hi Garry,good job my times my own LOL.An hour of that was looking for a new knurling tool which I knew i had but couldn’t remember where I put until I found it in my tool cabinet.The chuck is a collet chuck that screws onto the mandrel on my S7 lathe.It takes ER 25 collets,I have a set of these for my milling m/c.It doesn`t have the overhang of a 3 jaw chuck & is more accurate.One of the problems these days is that I havn`t done much model engineering for 15-20 & have to work out all over again how I did a lot of machining in my Simplex days.It does come eventually but it`s like learning all over again!!.

 

Ray.

Edited September 17, 2018 by sagaguy

[sagaguy]

A better photo.

 

Ray

 

[Golden Fleece 30]

I like the collett chucks but don't have one myself. The only issue was changing colletts for different bar diameters but as you say are more accurate.

 

Garry

[MikeCW]

Hi Mike,

 

The HD castings cannot be soldered but a lot higher melting point than normal solder so what I did was file a bevel on all sides of the window then filled it with solder to a brass plate on the inside slightly larger than the window.  Having the bevel prevents the solder being pushed out, I prefer solder to the likes of Milliput, car filler etc.

 

The cab should be smaller but I think I decided to just leave it and therefore the chassis has not been touched.  The cab cut out is not actually the correct shape as the rear window is in the way so I just filed it to look reasonable but get around the window position.

 

Removing the chimney cap allows a small spacer to be inserted to give the extra height.

 

The tender had a few millimeters removed from its base but still tall enough to allow the plungers to work.

 

Have you seen the Castle to County conversion too?

 

Garry

Thank you Garry

 

That all seems clear.  And yes, I admired the County in the set of photos on the same post.  I think that the trick with these Dublo conversions is not to produce a scale model but a locomotive or item of rolling stock  which the Binns Road factory could (should?) have produced, and to their quality standards. IMO your conversions capture this objective nicely.

 

Mike

[Il Grifone]

The knurled nuts are a pain. I replace them with  8 B.A. nuts, not having a lathe to make replacements. Occasionally they are offerred on eBay but at a price which approaches that of a complete switch or terminal/isolating rail.

 

Dublo switches were always expensive. In my youth, I used light switches from Woolworths at 7d rather than Dublo's several shillings. I didn't have any electric points 21/- or signals so didn't need any passing contacts.

 

I bypass the switch problem by using Trix switches. (I stocked up when they were reasonably priced - they now cost nearly a smuch as Dublo ones. They are also a bit wider, which is more convenient for old and clumsy fingers. Thes use a 10 B.A.* screw which is easier to source if missing, but are normally present as less prone to loss.

 

*I believe some are 2mm thread, presumably Trix Express?

Edited September 18, 2018 by Il Grifone

[sagaguy]

I remember those Woolworths switches,small round black bakelite at a shilling each,people could turn them into single pole double throw by fixing a brass contact from flat battery teminals(remember those?)above the P/Bronze contact of the switch.Bell wire at 6d a yard.Useful shop that,pity they didn`t move with the times.

 

                         Ray.

[sagaguy]

The knurled nuts are a pain. I replace them with  8 B.A. nuts, not having a lathe to make replacements. Occasionally they are offerred on eBay but at a price which approaches that of a complete switch or terminal/isolating rail.

 

Dublo switches were always expensive. In my youth, I used light switches from Woolworths at 7d rather than Dublo's several shillings. I didn't have any electric points 21/- or signals so didn't need any passing contacts.

 

I bypass the switch problem by using Trix switches. (I stocked up when they were reasonably priced - they now cost nearly a smuch as Dublo ones. They are also a bit wider, which is more convenient for old and clumsy fingers. Thes use a 10 B.A.* screw which is easier to source if missing, but are normally present as less prone to loss.

 

*I believe some are 2mm thread, presumably Trix Express?

Yes,that`s why a make a few now & again.I use a few Trix switches,i had to strip them down & clean & test them as the screw underneath the switch wouldn`t make contact with the contacts inside the switch,the problem was that the metal woul corrode under the screw head,a quick twirl with a countersink bit & alls well.I use my yellow ones to operate my Trix colour light signals,very nice models,i replaced the 14v bulbs with LES red,green or yellow 12v LEDs,they run almost cold.These are very effective as in the short video here,sorry about it shaking a bit.

 

                      

 

 

 

               Ray.

[MikeCW]

The knurled nuts are a pain. I replace them with  8 B.A. nuts, not having a lathe to make replacements. Occasionally they are offerred on eBay but at a price which approaches that of a complete switch or terminal/isolating rail.

 

Dublo switches were always expensive. In my youth, I used light switches from Woolworths at 7d rather than Dublo's several shillings. I didn't have any electric points 21/- or signals so didn't need any passing contacts.

 

Fully agree.  In my youth, (I've now hit 70 and 71 is in sight), electric points and signals were beyond my parents' means or priorities. I had just one electric point if I recall correctly, on the far side of the 6 x 4 layout at the exit from the reversing loop.  My father was not very technically minded (which was at odds with the fact that he had been a pilot in the Fleet Air Arm during the war) and wiring the reversing loop with an isolating tab and the D1 switch for the sole electric point seemed to be a source of much muttering.  Anyway, like most of us I suppose, I've tried to recapture lost youth or compensate for childhood deprivation (I wasn't deprived of the important things - love, food, shelter etc), so for a period I found it hard to resist electric points, uncouplers, semaphore and colour light signals, particularly when nice boxed examples came up from time to time on the local version of Ebay.  As a result I ended up with a major imbalance between the number of electric accessories and the number of Hornby Dublo switches and push-buttons to operate them. While any push-button or simple switch from your local electronic parts discounter will of course do the job, it's nice to have the "proper" Hornby Dublo ones.  So I've picked them up over the last couple of years when they've come up for sale.

 

Two things I've noticed.  The price has gone up steadily. The average local price is now around £4.00 equivalent.  And complete (with the knurled terminal nuts) and unbroken (typically the fixing holes get broken from overtightening of, probably wrong-sized, screws) examples are getting scarcer. I see that Tony Cooper now charges £7.00 for nice examples. But I've now matched the numbers of accessories and switches, with a few switches to spare, and all switches are complete.  I picked up a large box of broken switches for a pound or so a year or several ago, and most of the wrecked switches still had the knurled terminal nuts, so I've avoided the need to buy expensive reproductions.

 

Ray, I admire your work with the lathe and knurling tool.  It doesn't matter if they took 3 hours, that's what retirement is for - doing those things which satisfy.  What material did you use?  I'm not certain, but I think the originals were nickel plated brass?

 

Mike

Edited September 19, 2018 by MikeCW

[sagaguy]

Fully agree.  In my youth, (I've now hit 70 and 71 is in sight), electric points and signals were beyond my parents' means or priorities. I had just one electric point if I recall correctly, on the far side of the 6 x 4 layout at the exit from the reversing loop.  My father was not very technically minded (which was at odds with the fact that he had been a pilot in the Fleet Air Arm during the war) and wiring the reversing loop with an isolating tab and the D1 switch for the sole electric point seemed to be a source of much muttering.  Anyway, like most of us I suppose, I've tried to recapture lost youth or compensate for childhood deprivation (I wasn't deprived of the important things - love, food, shelter etc), so for a period I found it hard to resist electric points, uncouplers, semaphore and colour light signals, particularly when nice boxed examples came up from time to time on the local version of Ebay.  As a result I ended up with a major imbalance between the number of electric accessories and the number Hornby Dublo switches and push-buttons to operate them. While any push-button or simple switch from your local electronic parts discounter will of course do the job, it's nice to have the "proper" Hornby Dublo ones.  So I've picked them up over the last couple of years when they've come up for sale.

 

Two things I've noticed.  The price has gone up steadily. The average local price is now around £4.00 equivalent.  And complete (with the knurled terminal nuts) and unbroken (typically the fixing holes get broken from overtightening of, probably wrong-sized, screws) examples are getting scarcer. I see that Tony Cooper now charges £7.00 for nice examples. But I've now matched the numbers of accessories and switches, with a few switches to spare, and all switches are complete.  I picked up a large box of broken switches for a pound or so a year or several ago, and most of the wrecked switches still had the knurled terminal nuts, so I've avoided the need to buy expensive reproductions.

 

Ray, I admire your work with the lathe and knurling tool.  It doesn't matter if they took 3 hours, that's what retirement is for - doing those things which satisfy.  What material did you use?  I'm not certain, but I think the originals were nickel plated brass?

 

Mike

Hi Mike,a real stripling at 71,i`ll be 75 at Xmas & i still have my HD 48158 from my childhood days.I bought most of my switches in the 1980s,somtimes for 25p but some for a pound,i used to search through the boxes under dealers stalls at toyfairs,Ebay has killed most of those off these days.For the nuts,i used 1/4"(6mm) brass rod but sods law dictated that i didn`t have a collet that would hold it so i had to use hex bar of the next size up.Said collet is now on order.The original nuts were brass nickel plated,i can get N/S rod easily but i used what i had.

 

This dealer is excellent,he does ship internationally,i have a Facebook friend who lives in Namibia who buys from him,pity i didn`t know him about 10 years ago when we stopped in Okahandja for a pit stop during our tour & safari holiday there.

 

                       https://www.jwmodelrailways.com/

 

 

I have had my workshop for many years,from 1970 to about 1985,i built a 5" gauge 0-6-0 live steam Simplex loco but when i moved with my job,i sold it,i rarely drove it at fetes & my club track in St albans,all my mates drove it but Anno Domini crept on with the inevetible progress,i do have a part built 5" gauge Austerity 2-10-0 chassis in there but i don`t suppose it will ever get finished,it weighs a ton now which is why i stick to 00 gauge,easier to handle,trouble is that i have to stop & find tools & remember how i did things before,really out of practice these days,that1s why the first batch took so long.Just as an aside,nostalgia being what it is,i also have a very large collection of Meccano,one of the models i built was the giant walking dragline that is on the covers of the later instruction manuals.

 

 

 

 

This takes me back to my pre teen years ,i have a copy that i printed out on my A3 printer & it hangs ,framed,on my railway room wall

 

 

 

As i`ve said before,nostalgia is bloody expensive LOL.

 

 

                            Ray.

[sagaguy]

Regarding Dublo colour light signals,i bought a 9v 4amp power supply from ebay to under run the very expensive bulbs.I had a junction signal with a broken backplate,impossible to repair so i made a new one out of copperclad pcb & a couple of 10ba brass csk screws.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

                        Ray.

Edited September 19, 2018 by sagaguy