"Ordinary people, doing an extraordinary job"

[br2975]

"Once upon a time, a man kissed his wife and child goodnight, gently closed the door behind him and went off to work.............................."

[Arthur]

Indeed Brian, an event to make all of us pause and to reflect upon the sacrifice made by PC Dave Phillips and the loss to his family and colleagues.

 

Tragedy is a barely adequate word.

[Mike Storey]

This was clearly a tragic and horrific event for which all expressions of sympathy to his family are due. It is also symptomatic of the debt which society owes to these people who put their lives on the line for us each day.

 

Nonetheless, the scale of the reporting and the huge scale of the funeral, in this case, surprises me. A large number of police officers (not even counting Northern Ireland) have lost their lives during a crime or in pursuit of a criminal over the past 100 years, and I do not recall such attention since PC Blakelock. In 2013. Met PC Andrew Duncan was killed in very similar circumstances, but there was nothing like this. I am led to wonder why?

[stewartingram]

Having done 20+ years working alongside the Police & Fire, and latterly the Ambulance as well, as a Comms Engineer, I found it quite an eye-opener to see and hear what they get involved in. I have over that period realised what exceptional people they are, but still ordinary folk doing their day job. I have great respect for them all; occasionally you come across one on a bad day - they are only human - I can live with that. I also learnt from being with them that they have to cope with far mor than I ever do. Hence I personally have no time for stress and just get on with life.

Salute to every one of them. Thanks Guys.

 

Stewart

[pitbull1845]

Mike,

It's a show of respect and support, all officers have a strong bond and when an officer is killed we all feel it.  The thin blue line is getting thinner and thinner, the police service as we know it is changing, and it's not for the better.

 

This is a show of strength and to show the Government that we care about each other even if they don't. We also care about the public we serve, that's why we joined the job.

The media are doing their best to turn everyone against the Police, when everything is run by G4S you will realise that it was true, we did have the best police service in the world.

 

 

R.I.P PC Phillips.

[caradoc]

Fortunately I've not had many encounters with the Police in my life; Cycling without lights (many, many years ago), wife being pulled up for poor parking (which amused me, if not her); But I, and I am sure most others, recognise the incredible job they do, dealing with situations most of us would shy away from, and I do believe that we still have the best Police Force in the world.

[pointstaken]

Such as the two policewomen (unarmed) murdered in Manchester last year.

 

Dennis

[br2975]

Mike,

It's a show of respect and support, all officers have a strong bond and when an officer is killed we all feel it.

Save for the armed forces, I doubt there is any other occupation where such a bond exists.

 

"Prick one, and we all bleed, and we bleed blue"

 

Ultimately, such a show is to emphasise to the family, friends and close colleagues of a fallen officer that they are not alone.

 

This is a show of strength and to show the Government that we care about each other even if they don't.

Unfortunately, after years of naivety the police have (had to) become politicised, due to what they perceive as a sustained attack, by all three main political parties, upon a policing model that has served this country well for nearly 200 years.

 

We also care about the public we serve, that's why we joined the job.

Again, there are few occupations where such an element of pride, and job satisfaction can be gained by helping and protecting thosein need in the community - especially where the service to the public is being diminished, rapidly.

 

 

The media are doing their best to turn everyone against the Police, when everything is run by G4S you will realise that it was true, we did have the best police service in the world.

Here I would add, the media publish what they want, provided it will boost circulation or viewing figures - and generally the media "never lets the truth get in the way of a good story".

 

Unfortunately with the media in the pockets of the two main political parties, 'off the record briefings' and other leaks where 'Chatham House rules apply' have served to heap unwarranted discredit upon the British police service.

 

In 1979 I joined "THE job"

.

In 2009 I retired from "A job"

.

Those who still serve, such as Constable Phillips, have my undying support, admiration and respect.

.

Brian R

[Oakydoke]

One of my neighbours is a serving officer. He's got 10 more years to do, but has decided to move sideways into a plain clothes job in another branch of the force. He seems to be disallusioned with the politics in the job.

He told me a number of his colleagues have just, or are about to resign and move to the MoD, who are currently busy recruiting and have a number of vacancies, as they are expanding their presence near here.

 

One of my wife's work colleagues is married to an inspector. I know he's basically had enough too.

[skipepsi]

Can somebody tell me why if we have a fast growing population we need less police officers?

[br2975]

Can somebody tell me why if we have a fast growing population we need less police officers?

 

This lady may be able to answer your question....

.

Rt. Hon. Theresa May

Unit 2

Marsham Street

SW1P 4DF

.

Sarcasm aside, experience dictates that over the years the police 'service' have been their own worst enemies.

.

Due to a commitment to getting the job done, officers have invariably 'gone the extra mile'.

.

With a sustained reduction in officer numbers, staffing levels and budget, but no reduction in targets, officers are now forced to cut corners, or grade their responses to the perceived severity of an incident.

.

As a result, the public no longer receive the service they have come to expect, strained resources results in mistakes by officers - quickly pounced upon by the media and politicians.

.

Senior officers (ACPO) acquiesce  to their political masters, and until recently have walked a different course to the rank and file who police according to the policies, procedures and cuts imposed by senior managers.

.

Because ACPO have appeared to toe the government line in the past - they have never been subject to 'off the record' briefings by senior politicians in the manner by which the politicians 'bad mouthed' the rank and file.................. I for one recall the last Labour administration referring to 'Spanish practices' employed by police officer who rightfully claimed expenses; but I never met a police officer who claimed for his duck house, or cleaning their moat. 

.

The rank and file, and their representative body, the Police Federation, can speak out, voice their concerns and criticise politicians and senior officers all they like, but the media decide which stories they print or broadcast.......... and as they get well fed by Downing Street, and only get occasional scraps from the Police Federation the media generally tend to ignore rank and file police officers views.

.

How often to you see a headline "Police Chief criticises Home Office intrusion and budet cuts" ..........................

.

When you do, it is always followed by "Robert Peel, Chief Constable of Sandford Police who retires today after 35 years service......"

.

Did the retiring officer only notice the political interference and budget cuts during the closing days of his tenure ? - Did he serve with his eyes closed ? - Was he afraid to speak out ?

.

Unfortunately, policing by the one time 'bobby on the beat' has been politicised, and we cannot escape it.

.

Brian R

 

Brian R

[BlackRat]

And at a very time when we are told we are at a high state of alert re terrorism.

 

I just feel its like Beeching in the 60's, you will only miss it when its gone.

 

And I can assure you, going it is.

[skipepsi]

This lady may be able to answer your question....

.

Rt. Hon. Theresa May

Unit 2

Marsham Street

SW1P 4DF

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it is the wrong sort of question for her.... it needs an honest answer.

[PatB]

Mike,

It's a show of respect and support, all officers have a strong bond and when an officer is killed we all feel it.  The thin blue line is getting thinner and thinner, the police service as we know it is changing, and it's not for the better.

 

This is a show of strength and to show the Government that we care about each other even if they don't. We also care about the public we serve, that's why we joined the job.

The media are doing their best to turn everyone against the Police, when everything is run by G4S you will realise that it was true, we did have the best police service in the world.

 

 

R.I.P PC Phillips.

 

Yes, having had some professional dealings with the private security industry in the past, albeit in another country, I am vehemently opposed to the creeping privatisation of policing which we are seeing here and, from what you say, is also occurring in the UK.

[The Stationmaster]

I think the Police suffer from a problem which affects much of the state sector and apparatus in our country - the top end, in its various ways and forms, is busy looking after itself and making sure it isn't hit by cuts so naturally it cuts where it finds it easiest to make cuts - at the bottom or frontline end.

 

The best example of this starts at the very top with a House of Lords growing at a phenomenal rate (but it does have its place - although it doesn't need that many placemen/women and old mates etc to increase its numbers) the House of Commons has remained virtually static in numbers while the politicos have added a sort of parliament, sorry assembly, in Scotland and another in Wales while reinventing the one in Northern Ireland.  All of this costs money, all of these so called 'representatives' need a staff of secretaries and researchers, and expenses, and offices and so on.  The cost of Govt has expanded massively - even without big pay increase - to it has to be funded from somewhere.

 

Same I suspect with the police where we still hear occasional stories of money being spent on cars for civilian staff and so on.  But will we ever see any cuts at that level?

[BlackRat]

I am not aware of ANY force that has cut the numbers of ACPO ranks, despite all these recent years of cuts and austerity.

 

I would be delighted to be enlightened.

 

And dont forget.....if ACPO tow the line its often a knighthood/damehood and almost certainly the Q.P.M.

[rockershovel]

The politicisation of the police has been systematically undertaken by those promoting an ideological agenda. This was clearly demonstrated in Rotherhsm, where it was openly admitted that police and social workers had knowingly opted to allow the law to go unenforced, rather than be accused of being insufficiently politically correct.

 

The reason is simple. They face the situation whereby they can be professionally discriminated against and victimised, to the extent of losing their livelihood, on the basis of an unsubstantiated and unprovable allegation by a third party. Their union will not defend them, their employers will not allow them redress. The accusation has the force of conviction.

 

This was always the function of "hate speech" and the rest of the related legislation, from the Race Relations Act onwards; to create a situation in which in certain respects, there IS no law, only the arbitrary enforcement of ideology. Look at the contortions in the press a little while ago, when a certain Chief Constable made a statement (a propos the vexed question of "stop and search") that really could on,y be interpreted as meaning that certain, readily identifiable groupings were particularly associated with certain offences.

 

The police find themselves in the position of having to deal with this environment. I don't envy them, or at any rate those who are not on the inside track to political preferment and patronage.

[rockershovel]

Mike,

It's a show of respect and support, all officers have a strong bond and when an officer is killed we all feel it.  The thin blue line is getting thinner and thinner, the police service as we know it is changing, and it's not for the better.

 

This is a show of strength and to show the Government that we care about each other even if they don't. We also care about the public we serve, that's why we joined the job.

The media are doing their best to turn everyone against the Police, when everything is run by G4S you will realise that it was true, we did have the best police service in the world.

 

 

R.I.P PC Phillips.

There was also the not-so-small matter of a certain senior police officer stating that a badge showing the Union Flag could not be worn, in case it caused offence to "certain members of the community"

[shortliner]

This lady may be able to answer your question....

.

Rt. Hon. Theresa May

Unit 2

Marsham Street

SW1P 4DF

.

Sarcasm aside, experience dictates that over the years the police 'service' have been their own worst enemies.

.

Due to a commitment to getting the job done, officers have invariably 'gone the extra mile'.

.

With a sustained reduction in officer numbers, staffing levels and budget, but no reduction in targets, officers are now forced to cut corners, or grade their responses to the perceived severity of an incident.

.

As a result, the public no longer receive the service they have come to expect, strained resources results in mistakes by officers - quickly pounced upon by the media and politicians.

.

Senior officers (ACPO) acquiesce  to their political masters, and until recently have walked a different course to the rank and file who police according to the policies, procedures and cuts imposed by senior managers.

.

Because ACPO have appeared to toe the government line in the past - they have never been subject to 'off the record' briefings by senior politicians in the manner by which the politicians 'bad mouthed' the rank and file.................. I for one recall the last Labour administration referring to 'Spanish practices' employed by police officer who rightfully claimed expenses; but I never met a police officer who claimed for his duck house, or cleaning their moat. 

.

The rank and file, and their representative body, the Police Federation, can speak out, voice their concerns and criticise politicians and senior officers all they like, but the media decide which stories they print or broadcast.......... and as they get well fed by Downing Street, and only get occasional scraps from the Police Federation the media generally tend to ignore rank and file police officers views.

.

How often to you see a headline "Police Chief criticises Home Office intrusion and budet cuts" ..........................

.

When you do, it is always followed by "Robert Peel, Chief Constable of Sandford Police who retires today after 35 years service......"

.

Did the retiring officer only notice the political interference and budget cuts during the closing days of his tenure ? - Did he serve with his eyes closed ? - Was he afraid to speak out ?

.

Unfortunately, policing by the one time 'bobby on the beat' has been politicised, and we cannot escape it.

.

Brian R

 

Brian R

 

Interesting to see how much of what has been said here also applies to senior, and now retired, MILITARY officers who get dragged out to make comments on news and other programmes, and who deplore what is happening/ has ever been thus, but who never said a thing whilst they served in case it damaged their chances of pensions and knighthoods.

[Mike Storey]

And at a very time when we are told we are at a high state of alert re terrorism.

 

I just feel its like Beeching in the 60's, you will only miss it when its gone.

 

And I can assure you, going it is.

 

I don't disagree but it would only be fair to point out that the Intelligence and Secret Service budgets have more than doubled in the last two years, which might explain some of this. Total police numbers will return to roughly where they were in 2002 (Labour increased numbers significantly between 2006 and 2010) if these cuts carry through, but the percentage of officers on front line duties (i.e. operational as opposed to back office support) will have increased from c.87% to c.92%. That's what is being reported anyway.

[br2975]

........................... but the percentage of officers on front line duties (i.e. operational as opposed to back office support) will have increased from c.87% to c.92%. That's what is being reported anyway.

Debatable.

.

With swingeing budget cuts many forces are already circulating their police staff ( aka 'civvies') to gauge the demand for voluntary redundancy.

.

If the take up is limited, then there will be forced redundancies.

.

The Met are currently examining possible redundancy for a large percentage of its PCSO's.

.

Currently police officers are crown servants and compulsory severance is difficult.

.

However, some Chief Constables are reported as being in favour of powers to make officers redundant.

.

During the previous budgetary cut, under the last Labour regime many forces pruned their officer numbers by using Regulation A19 - compulsorily retiring officers with 30 years pensionable service.

.

In my former force, officer numbers were cut from 3335 to about 2900.

.

If police support staff numbers are drastically pruned, the work they previously performed (generally bean counting to satisfy politicians) then their role will need to be filled by warranted officers, who under the conditions imposed by Tom Winsor, will then see a reduction in pay as a result.

.

This is not political, as all three main parties have been involved.

.

Brian R

[Ozexpatriate]

This is not political, as all three main parties have been involved.

But probably better discussed in a thread on modern policing policy rather than the remembrance to a fallen officer that you began with.

[br2975]

But probably better discussed in a thread on modern policing policy rather than the remembrance to a fallen officer that you began with.

 

Had I suffered Constable Phillips fate during my service, I  hope that I would be remembered, and talked about in the future - and if that remembrance developed into stimulated debate on the subject of policing today, educating those outside the job and possibly leading to greater awareness (of the problems officers face today) and hopefully lead to change, I would be satisfied.

.

Thirty five years with the police service, thirty as an officer, fifteen years as a PFEW representative, a daughter and son-in-law currently serving, several uncles and cousins who served before and alongside me,  has  allowed one a privileged insight into the lives, service, hopes, aims and aspirations of the average officer and their families.

.

Not wishing to abrade the sensibilities of other subscribers to this forum, on that note, I shall withdraw.

.

Brian R

[BlackRat]

I concur with Brian, having been born in a police house, and having spent the best part of my life I and around policing, I think Dave Phillips would be the first to support any debate on policing, particularly in the current climate.

One thing that I was told in my first few days of service, is that the police give you a bloody good funeral.

In memory of Dave, and other fallen colleagues, I'll back away to, and leave this thread to those that chose to say whatever.

Which in reality is surprisingly ( well not so really ) few.

 

ps and I didn't think that Brian intended this as a commemorative thread..........

[The Stationmaster]

I have long held the belief that the 'average officer' in the police really wants what the bulk of our society wants - the backing to enforce the law, in all its forms, at every level of society and to every section of society irrespective of social standing, race, or creed.  I would also expect the CPS to do likewise - where there is evidence that the law has been broken and the alleged culprit has been apprehended by the police then that person, or persons, should be sent for trial.

 

I do not regard the lame excuse of 'not in the public interest' as being any more that exactly that - a lame excuse; if there is sufficient evidence to bring a prosecution then that is what should happen.  The law cannot be enforced on one individual unless it is applied equally to all - without fear or favour.  And it's about time our half-baked politicians woke up to that and supported it because they, and their coterie of various hangers on (of all shades of political influence) seem to be exercising undue influence.