DaveClass47 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 In September I finally took delivery of the Hornby R3263 Class 50 'Vanguard'. What a great looking model. Ran superbly. Then....... I tried to remove the cover to upgrade my decoder and all of the louvre grills came off. No force was exerted on the model, it was carefully handled. I had to send it back. However that's just the start of it......as I have had several other issues with Hornby 50's snce, trying to buy more as a gift for a mate. I've also had issues with other Hornby locos of late. I was going to buy 50046 Ajax....but eh no! Don't think so. Hornby are getting no more money from me. That's it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
srihaggis Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I know this won't help you with a class 50, but with regards to a Quality Control process being non existent, you probably aren't too far from the truth. As a day job I work in QC (not models). What process the manufacturer (whoever Hornby use in the far east), probably runs a Quality 'Assurance' process rather than a 'Control' process, the two being very different. Q Control basically means everything is inspected in the way you would imagine. We use this method in the UK and get minimal returns, however the extra time it takes adds cost (naturally). Q Assurance (which most far-east manufacturers use (incl our own factory in Taiwan and Hong Kong)), is a process whereby one model is inspected prior to initial build (pre-production build), then after that sample has been approved,1 model every 100 or 500 pcs is inspected. Ownership of faults is passed onto the people who sit there and make your model, but saves lots of labour hours on inspecting every piece. We have the same problems with this process and we are always having to return or re-work items here in the UK before we ship out to customers. I know this isn't helping your matters, but I thought i'd give my view as I have to cope with this situation every day and it bugs the hell out of me as well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CazRail Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 These problems sound very similar to what problems Hornby had with their re-tooled 67s a few years back. Cracks, paint blemishes, glue blobs etc. I've had a few locos from them in the last few years, but I've been pretty lucky, but I can understand your frustrations. I wonder if Hornby are slipping back into that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 This is absolutely appalling !!!! I would have given up way before the 6th loco. Do other companies suffer like this or are we turning a blind eye to them? Seems like I can remember a whole pile of issues happening across the Hornby range, the other makers not so much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If this is becoming a regular problem mabee Hornby should start an in house quality control warehouse in this country from where there products can then be shipped out to retailers and customers having being checked and passed as fit for purpose. Hornby could then use the items with issues for spares or sell them at reduced price as second class model for those modellers who wish to repaint and rework the model Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I'm dreading opening up my Ajax now to fit a DCC chip having read all these. These quality faults are just unacceptable on £140 models Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted November 13, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 13, 2015 This is absolutely appalling !!!! I would have given up way before the 6th loco. Do other companies suffer like this or are we turning a blind eye to them? Seems like I can remember a whole pile of issues happening across the Hornby range, the other makers not so much I can't see anywhere in the post where 6 are mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 And yet the newly tooled models released over the past couple of years that I have purchased are - as far as constructional quality is concerned - faultless. Well screwed together and finished and running well as received, no trouble with a decoder fit, everything stays attached in subsequent operation. The grumbles appear to relate to models assembled from legacy tooling originally created by Sanda Kan. Suggests to me loss of some of the know how in assembly technique as practised in that operation, that is an essential underpinning of the quality assurance (QA) approach. Process capability has to be in place for QA to work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonC Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 And yet the newly tooled models released over the past couple of years that I have purchased are - as far as constructional quality is concerned - faultless. Well screwed together and finished and running well as received, no trouble with a decoder fit, everything stays attached in subsequent operation. The grumbles appear to relate to models assembled from legacy tooling originally created by Sanda Kan. Suggests to me loss of some of the know how in assembly technique as practised in that operation, that is an essential underpinning of the quality assurance (QA) approach. Process capability has to be in place for QA to work. Either that or the newly tooled models are produced in different factories Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Either that or the newly tooled models are produced in different factories This thread was making a little progress toward understanding that. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92424-hornbys-new-factories-whos-doing-what/ But without data there can be no further progress. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 I can't see anywhere in the post where 6 are mentioned. The original post has been edited and that info removed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveClass47 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 The original post has been edited and that info removed. Hi, my apologies for that...my original post was 'got at' by my young daughter, who some ho managed to press the edit post button and delete 90% of it...I then had to go back and retype most of it, and I basically didnt have the time or patience to list my 1-7 of faulty models! Slightly worrying that my 3 year old is more computer savvy than me! ;-0 Thanks for pointing this out though. I'm off to pray that a class 50 out there is fault free. Miracles do happen, so the Pope tells us! lol Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveClass47 Posted November 14, 2015 Author Share Posted November 14, 2015 I can't see anywhere in the post where 6 are mentioned. Hi, my apologies for that...my original post was 'got at' by my young daughter, who some ho managed to press the edit post button and delete 90% of it...I then had to go back and retype most of it, and I basically didnt have the time or patience to list my 1-7 of faulty models! So thebritfamrer was correct to say 6, but I can see why this no longer makes sense! My computer savvy 3 yr old saw to that. lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted November 14, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2015 I'm off to pray that a class 50 out there is fault free. Didn't happen with the real thing so Hornby are only being true to prototype. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Urquhart Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/104560-Hornby-r6264-class-50-50046-ajax-parts-falling-off/&do=findComment&comment=2073329 I have had the same issue. I have tried to point to my first post on the problem. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIRCLASS80 Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Finally got my 50 046 on the layout. Fitted a Lenz standard chip and running like a dream. No bits falling off and looks excellent. Cannot wait until 50 026 in original NSE is released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Urquhart Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Yes, it is a stunning runner straight from the box. Now that I have resolved the louvres issue I am delighted with it. I won't be getting the NSE version, though, I think large logo suits the locomotive best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
owentherail Posted December 26, 2015 Share Posted December 26, 2015 Finally got my 50 046 on the layout. Fitted a Lenz standard chip and running like a dream. No bits falling off and looks excellent. Cannot wait until 50 026 in original NSE is released. Lets see if the get warning yellow correct on this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveClass47 Posted December 26, 2015 Author Share Posted December 26, 2015 I FINALLY got a class 50 worthy of keeping with a good over all quality. However my loco has developed a fault with the head code Marker Lights! The marker lights on the No.1 end flicker when the loco is sped up. They work fine at low speeds and when stationary, but flicker terribly at speed. Any suggestions? I have had the body off and on several times (but I am now scared to take it off incase the louvres come off AGAIN!), There is nothing wrong with the LED plate, why it works at low speeds but not a cruising speeds is a mystery. HELP? Anyone had this issue? How was it solved in your case?? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster 47 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Hi folks I am a new member of the forum, this is my first posting, apologies if it's in the wrong section.. I too acquired a brand new class 50 ( vangard) over the Xmas period from my local supplier in North Wales. Mine too had the louvre problem when the body was removed, they all fell out!!! I have decided to put a mesh screen in place instead of trying to rebuild them... More annoyingly though is the fact that my roof fan does not rotate under power and never will, the drive shaft and bevel gear assembly is missing!!! Can't return loco to supplier as it was the last one he had in the shop.. not his fault, but am pretty disgusted with the NON EXISTANT checks Hornby should have made before sending it out to retailer's..... is there any chance Hornby would supply me with the parts FRRE if I contacted them?? Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdseyecircus Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Both the new releases of the class 50 and 56 and possibly any future class 31's no longer have the revolving fan mechanism. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster 47 Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Thanks Paul, I wasn't Aware of this. Maybe a look at Peter spares is called for to try and get the bits.. Thanks again. Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 7, 2016 Share Posted January 7, 2016 Adding the working fan mechanisim is easy to do. I did it with my Vangaurd (while also adding DCC sound). The bits you need to buy are: 1) the steel drive shaft that fits in the 4-5cm long black box that holds the fan. This has a brass bit one end where the belt runs between it and a flywheel on one of the motor which fortunately still retains the groove for the drive belt. 2) the drive belt (sold as several) 3) small rubber grubs (they sell them in packs of 10 or 12 but you only need 1 or 2). You can also buy a fan, the original is the same as the one supplied with Vangaurd, except the shaft holding the fan and plastic drive disk also has a brass flywheel attached to it. You don't really need the flywheel on the fan to make it work and it is actually surplus. It is not like as if suddenly stopping the model will still see the fan spinning round for several additional seconds, friction is far too high in the belt drive to allow that - indeed the same friction makes it turn in the first place. The hardest part of the entire operation is probably finding someone who sells the drive shaft. Fitting is easy. Remove the black plastic fan box (held in by a few screws). Unclipp the drive shaft between the bogie (under the black box) and motor. Where as other makes use a one piece drive shaft, Hornby's is multi piece, split and side arrangement so much easier to do. Place the drive belt around the motor flywheel into the groove. You have to ease it under the flywheel but it is easy to do with a small screwdriver. The black fan box has an upper and lower halves that clip togethor. The plastic is fine and fragile so gently unclip both parts. Prior to fitting the shaft inside (note it has 2 bearings), fit a rubber grub on the fan end. I recommend fitting two grubs, one above the other as just one, does not always bite the disc wheel of the fan! Assemble lower black box halve, fan drive shaft and fan. Once satisfied, clip the upper half on. turn the shaft to ensure the fan turns. Place back into the loco and screw back into place, attach the belt to the fan drive shaft. Run loco and ensure fan still turns. Prior to loco reassembly, tweek the soft electrical contacts to ensure the headcode lights still work when reassembled. Clip body back on (for a modern day RTR, this one is easy to get into). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedmaster 47 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Hi j Spencer Thanks very much for your highly detailed and informative reply to my post. I will be checking out That well know auction site soon E... To source the nessessary parts... Thanks again for the info Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveClass47 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 Hi folks I am a new member of the forum, this is my first posting, apologies if it's in the wrong section.. I too acquired a brand new class 50 ( vangard) over the Xmas period from my local supplier in North Wales. Mine too had the louvre problem when the body was removed, they all fell out!!! I have decided to put a mesh screen in place instead of trying to rebuild them... More annoyingly though is the fact that my roof fan does not rotate under power and never will, the drive shaft and bevel gear assembly is missing!!! Can't return loco to supplier as it was the last one he had in the shop.. not his fault, but am pretty disgusted with the NON EXISTANT checks Hornby should have made before sending it out to retailer's..... is there any chance Hornby would supply me with the parts FRRE if I contacted them?? Allan Hi, Hornby build quality is really suspect on this model. The louvres are an issue, I am now so scared they fall out I dont want to remove the body shell to try and rectify the flickering head code marker lights! I have become a paranoid nervous wreck lol. Anyway, regarding the rotating fan. I am glad it doesn't have it any more, as it tended to hamper the smooth running of the loco. The rubber band that powered the fan could cause the motor to be jerky and I used to just cut them off, especially on the class 56's! Good luck with getting your one fitted with a rotating fan, I hope you are more successful at getting it running smoothly than Hornby were! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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