RMW "Layout & Track Design" - all change............

[Chimer]

Hi Halsey

 

I have a crossover formed from 2 Streamline Code 100 curved points (1 left 1 right), which don't give me any more trouble than my small radius straight ones (and they weren't laid with any particular care, as I wanted something up and running at the time).

 

Cheers

 

Chris 

[Nearholmer]

Halsey

 

"Space savers" are indeed expensive, which is why real railways tend not to resort to them unless space is very tight, but my, admittedly c20 years ago, experience is that the streamline versions of the curved point, double-slip, and tandem turnout all work perfectly ....... and,they save space.

 

I don't have any of these fancy things on my current 0 gauge coarse-scale line, although I would really like to, because in that format they really, really are expensive, or really, really difficult to build at home.

 

Kevin

 

PS: I always drill a pilot hole, even for "fine" track pins,before shoving them into plywood. That way, I can save up all my best swear words, and use them in one salvo, when I measure once, and cut twice.

[MikeOxon]

I can't recall if we ever discussed 'live' and 'dead' frogs in this thread.  If you use 'live' frog points then some of these 'space savers' can be quite tricky to wire up correctly.  Peco provide instructions that you have to follow very carefully

 

Mike

[halsey]

Thanks Chris (all) - that's where I'm headed next - typical of me to try my own thoughts rather than follow the CAD drawing because I can't accept that I don't know better!

 

Change of direction - I had a couple of Hornby LMS crimson carriages arrive yesterday very disappointed with the quality (will resell sometime) - my Dad used to model in Germany and no comparison to Fleischman/Marklin!

 

Are there lots of different (Hornby) manufacturing periods and is older stuff better or worse.

 

Also some poor "integral plastic couplings have appeared on one coach and one "Brake" wagon - just starting to engage with E bay for this (been using it for years) so I'm happy to learn by reselling where needed at least its cheaper than using loads of petrol but a few tips would help!

 

BFN

[halsey]

Thanks - "O" gauge is the holy grail - love it!

 

I would always drill (and never the last sleeper) so I agree

 

I will avoid the more contrived solutions and I think probably all used points.

 

Back to my new best friends at Track Shack - 1 double slip and 3 curved points - "ouch"

[halsey]

All Insulfrog

 

As you will discover when we get there I'm even more clueless on electrics!

 

Lets start another theme - point motors (or not)  - obviously on my raised branch I'm using surface Peco due to clearance issues but what to use elsewhere?

 

What switches? Decoupling methods/ramps?

 

Again Pecos shiny boxes aren't cheap - do I remember my Dad using manual methods tubes and wire???

[Simon Moore]

Having read the original post I can understand all to well when things don't go right you can loose heart. I have done this myself when electronics got the better of me & I scrapped my layout.

 

At easter this year I joined a model railway club, it's one of the best moves I could have done. I've made some new friends & learnt a hell of a lot. This forum has brought my modelling on loads & i'm grateful for that but it has its limitations especially when everyone chucks in there 2 penneth & your still none the wiser.

 

Joining a local model railway group will open many doors for you & will help build your confidence as a modeller & help you over come certain aspects of this hobby.

 

Good luck with your layout.

 

Regards

 

Simon

[Nearholmer]

Halsey

 

I don't wish to drive you crazy, but I would suggest that you ponder the merits of electro frog very carefully, before committing to insulfrog points, especially for a "shunty" layout.

 

If you are going to use mainly bogie diesels, it probably doesn't matter much, but with 0-6-0, and even more so 0-4-0, that little loss of contact can be the difference between happiness and annoyance when shunting.

 

And, one you get a few very basic principles in mind, it isn't all that difficult.

 

As regards manual or electric point operation: yer pays yer money, and yer takes yer choice. Both can work very well, and manual is definitely cheaper.

 

K

[halsey]

Morning,

 

I fully understand and have done some investigation - now committed to insulfrog - not saying you aren't right but that's a decision made and money spent.

 

BFN

[imt]

Are there lots of different (Hornby) manufacturing periods and is older stuff better or worse.

 

Also some poor "integral plastic couplings have appeared on one coach and one "Brake" wagon - just starting to engage with E bay for this (been using it for years) so I'm happy to learn by reselling where needed at least its cheaper than using loads of petrol but a few tips would help!

 

BFN

 

Yes there has been a gradual improvement in most 00 gauge models over the years, though some of the old ones were expensive and good.  You DO need to take care when buying things in from (say) E-bay where you don't get to handle and inspect the goods.

 

You have hit on a particular bugbear with couplings.  They have gone through many iterations, and buying older stock almost inevitably means "hacking" the couplings - which I do a lot of.  I have chosen to use NEM pocketed Kadees for their auto-uncouplng.  I like them - but there are always many other opinions.

 

Fixing an NEM pocket is not difficult - you just need some good CA glue - but you need to get various supplies.  Beware some older Bachmann stock claims to be NEM (and NEM couplings fit) but they are NOT the right height and hence need changing.

 

I use a variety of NEM boxes bought from Bachmann and Symoba.  Symoba provide an excellent system for complete replacement, but it is expensive.  I have used it on favourite models. I just use the NEM boxes not the whole gubbins.  As a cost saver, where I have "rakes" of things (wagons of a type, coaching sets) I tend to leave the central vehicles with the old couplings (which work fine) and just NEM/Kadee the end vehicles.

 

If you want more PM me and I answer specific questions as best I can.

Edited December 9, 2015 by imt

[halsey]

many thanks all good stuff - there is certainly a lot to learn

I could also do with understanding a bit more about uncoupling methods and "ramps" - what do informed enthusiasts do?

[Chimer]

many thanks all good stuff - there is certainly a lot to learn

I could also do with understanding a bit more about uncoupling methods and "ramps" - what do informed enthusiasts do?

 

Mostly, they argue about it!  A quick search will find dozens of threads on here championing and rubbishing the various methods - as always, I have stuck with the simplest, i.e. Bachmann/Hornby tension locks and Peco sprung uncoupling ramps, but wouldn't describe myself as happy with the way they operate - both unwanted & failed uncouplings are common.  I'm hoping I can improve things a bit without making a major change, as I really don't want to start playing around with the more complicated options.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[jon_1066]

One of the simplest of the more complex is a very nifty mod to those normal tension locks as set out by Brian Kirby.  

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35605

 

Basically you solder or glue a bit of unfolded paper clip or staple onto the drop part of the coupler and then mount magnets into the baseboard between the track where you want to uncouple.  The magnet attracts the staple and lifts the tension lock allowing you to uncouple.  When under tension the hook on the coupler keeps it lowered.

 

edit - hopefully works now

Edited December 9, 2015 by jon_1066

[imt]

I have stuck with the simplest, i.e. Bachmann/Hornby tension locks and Peco sprung uncoupling ramps, but wouldn't describe myself as happy with the way they operate - both unwanted & failed uncouplings are common.  I'm hoping I can improve things a bit without making a major change, as I really don't want to start playing around with the more complicated options.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

There is an awful lot to be said for KISS (keep it simple stupid) BUT I have heard of ways of improving tension lock coupling/uncoupling by using steel paper staples affixed horizontally to the bottoms of the downcomers on the tension lock hooks and using a magnet to cause the hook to lift.  I THINK I saw that somebody had produced metal replacement hooks for that system too.  As usual I warn that this is only my recollection and that I haven't tried it myself.

 

Jon got there first!  I cannot make the link work................

Edited December 9, 2015 by imt

[MikeOxon]

Re: point motors:

 

FWIW I have used SEEP point motors which have built-in switches.  I mount them on small sub-boards for easier connection to the layout - see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/1405/entry-12368-a-bit-about-the-track/

 

If you've not found it yet, you should look at Brian Lambert's site for loads of information about electrics and wiring - lots of good stuff

 

Mike

[halsey]

All - thanks for the input - plenty to investigate over the Christmas period - thanks again.

[halsey]

Hi all,

 

Given that I'm using peco insulfrog points and loosely modelling era 3 LMS which/what shunter should I buy? Please avoid kits and high prices!

[Nearholmer]

I know next to nothing about the LMS, and am out of date with what 00 models are available, but I am partial to diesel shunters, of which the LMS had more than the other Big Four, a really interesting collection.

 

So, how about a simple conversion of a commercial 08, to represent 7120 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_11 or one of its siblings? Wrenn used to sell an 08 in LMS livery, in the days when "near enough was good enough". http://www.wrennspecialist.co.uk/00-gauge-railway-stock/00-gauge-railway-stock/172/wrenn-w2233-0-6-0-diesel-shunter-lms-black/

 

K

Edited December 11, 2015 by Nearholmer

[MikeOxon]

Hi all,

 

Given that I'm using peco insulfrog points and loosely modelling era 3 LMS which/what shunter should I buy? Please avoid kits and high prices!

No problem with 'ready to run' steam choice here.  Both Hornby and Bachmann do the ubiquitous Fowler 3F 'Jinty' shunter or, if you want more old-fashioned 'character', there's the Bachmann 1F with open back cab.  Look at the on-line suppliers, such as Antics, Hattons, etc., etc. to see details of what's available.

[halsey]

Hi Mike,

 

Do you know which has full 6 wheel pick up as the advice seems to be that with insulfrog points this is a must.

 

J

[MikeOxon]

Hi J - can't say for certain, as I don't have these exact models, but I expect them to have all-wheel pickup, since these models are designed with dead-frog 'trainset' track in mind.  A useful tip is to look up the service sheets on the web, since these usually contain all the details you need.  I'm sure others will know the answer

 

Mike

[halsey]

Hi I'm getting better at navigating this minefield on the web and have found more info - looks as though the Bachmann Jinty is the answer - thanks

[MikeOxon]

You'll look back in a year's time and wonder what the problems were

[ejstubbs]

Hi I'm getting better at navigating this minefield on the web and have found more info - looks as though the Bachmann Jinty is the answer - thanks

 

Or you could do what I do: have one each of the Bachy and the Hornby!  In fact, my six-wheel-pickup Bachmann Jinty stalls pretty much every time on one particular Setrack (ie insulfrog) point on my test track, whereas my four-wheel-pickup Hornby one trundles serenely through without a pause.  Go figure...

[TonyMay]

I know next to nothing about the LMS, and am out of date with what 00 models are available, but I am partial to diesel shunters, of which the LMS had more than the other Big Four, a really interesting collection.

 

So, how about a simple conversion of a commercial 08, to represent 7120 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_11 or one of its siblings? Wrenn used to sell an 08 in LMS livery, in the days when "near enough was good enough". http://www.wrennspecialist.co.uk/00-gauge-railway-stock/00-gauge-railway-stock/172/wrenn-w2233-0-6-0-diesel-shunter-lms-black/

 

K

 

yes, but they weren't as ubiquitous as the BR class 08 shunter; the appeared in relatively small numbers, were introduced late in the LMS period (i.e. during the 1940s), and many of these were subsequently were borrowed by the War Department for the duration.  Shunting would have still been done traditionally, i.e. horses for light work, using locomotives for heavier work.  While you can use an 0-6-0D shunters as a typical from the late-1950s onwards, before then you can't.  And there is a great importance in railway modelling of having things that are "typical" for they make it look like it generally was.  Horrible things anyway.