Elizabeth Line / Crossrail Updates.

[St. Simon]

Hi,

 

I decided to try out the through running on Sunday between Reading and Tottenham Court Road and then Tottenham Court Road to Heathrow and then the section between Paddington and Farringdon (& return) last night.

 

I did the full line a couple of weeks after opening and I was astounded by how good it was, and I’m still astounded.

 

I was pleasantly surprised how quick the transitions between Crossrail and NR happened (we only stopped for a few second in either direction) and how smooth it all was. Knowing what that transition takes not only on the train, but at the lineside and in the control centres, it is a marvel of engineering!

 

I was also surprised at the number of people making use of the through running, it is clearly living up to expectations.

 

Simon

[The Stationmaster]

17 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

I would imagine revenue splits for Twyford-Paddington would work exactly the way they do for any other route where services are operated by more than one operator (which IIRC means that the revenue for a journey is split between the operators in the ratio of the number of services they offer over the route).

 

Splitting revenue for journeys from Reading to London are sufficiently complicated anyway that I don't think the EL will make a great deal of difference - you don't need to pass through a barrier to change on to the Tube at Ealing Broadway or Richmond either. 

For example, there are at least four different routes from Reading to Whitechapel which would only involve passing through barriers at each end of the journey!

ORCATS  didn't (doesn't?) entirely work like that as it also used (uses?) survey information to establish a base of ridership for the various services involved in the revenue split.  That's one reason why open access operators have been very careful regarding ticket checks and recording ridership plus in some cases maintaining wholly separate ticketing arrangements to ensure that they have comprehensive details of train use.  Technically - although it is far from perfect - 'swiping-in'  tickets etc at some stations will allow ridership to be attributed to individual trains.  That is in reality no more than a more sophisticated version of a measurement which I understand could be used in ORCATS at one time which related to the time of ticket issues and people passing onto a platform to the train the revenue was attributed to

 

One complication with LizLine on the GWML is the use of Oystercards out to West Drayton and I suspect that might be based on proportion of trains but in my experience prior to the opening of the central section of the Liz Line ridership on GWR trains calling at West Drayton and Hayes was considerable with people forsaking the Liz ine units for a ride in a 387.  That of course therefore requires TfL to share Oystercard revenue which has probably gone down with them like lead balloon (and which might have prompted their reported move to seek an end to Travelcards?).

[RJS1977]

7 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

ORCATS  didn't (doesn't?) entirely work like that as it also used (uses?) survey information to establish a base of ridership for the various services involved in the revenue split.  That's one reason why open access operators have been very careful regarding ticket checks and recording ridership plus in some cases maintaining wholly separate ticketing arrangements to ensure that they have comprehensive details of train use.  Technically - although it is far from perfect - 'swiping-in'  tickets etc at some stations will allow ridership to be attributed to individual trains.  That is in reality no more than a more sophisticated version of a measurement which I understand could be used in ORCATS at one time which related to the time of ticket issues and people passing onto a platform to the train the revenue was attributed to

 

One complication with LizLine on the GWML is the use of Oystercards out to West Drayton and I suspect that might be based on proportion of trains but in my experience prior to the opening of the central section of the Liz Line ridership on GWR trains calling at West Drayton and Hayes was considerable with people forsaking the Liz ine units for a ride in a 387.  That of course therefore requires TfL to share Oystercard revenue which has probably gone down with them like lead balloon (and which might have prompted their reported move to seek an end to Travelcards?).

 

I would have thought there would already have been other places where TfL has had to share Oyster revenue with a TOC.

West Ham/Barking/Upminster springs to mind. (Admittedly in that instance the trains use different platforms but I think at least at West Ham they share a gateline - I've never actually got out at Barking or Upminster so I can't confirm the situation there, although I don't remember having to pass through gatelines to change from the District to C2C at Upminster).

[Chris116]

The C2C, Underground and Overground all use the same gates at Barking. At Upminster it is one gateline for C2C and Underground. At both stations you do not go through a gateline when changing between services. At West Ham you can change trains without using a gateline and there is only one that all passengers use whichever service they have arrived on.

[Grovenor]

Also at Stratford with Greater Anglia, Overground, Underground, DLR, Elizabeth etc. There are card readers around the station where those changing trains can tap in. I understand that failing to Tap can result in higher charges.

[Chris116]

39 minutes ago, Grovenor said:

Also at Stratford with Greater Anglia, Overground, Underground, DLR, Elizabeth etc. There are card readers around the station where those changing trains can tap in. I understand that failing to Tap can result in higher charges.

The tap in to avoid being charged the zone one fare if you are going to go around rather than through zone one is a common thing. The readers are pink instead of the usual yellow at gatelines. West Brompton has pink readers for those changing between Underground and Overground. It tells the system the route you are using. Needless to say some try to use the system to get the cheaper fare while still using zone one  which keeps revenue inspectors busy.

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Grovenor said:

Also at Stratford with Greater Anglia, Overground, Underground, DLR, Elizabeth etc. There are card readers around the station where those changing trains can tap in. I understand that failing to Tap can result in higher charges.

If you don't tap in/out with the Oystercard at both ends of your journey you will be charged some sort of maximum fare depending on the location/zone.   The various levels of Penalty Charge are shown here -

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/how-to-pay-and-where-to-buy-tickets-and-oyster/pay-as-you-go/touching-in-and-out#on-this-page-2

 

Quite how it works for a journey wholly outside the Oystercard area I'm not sure as there are stations where the natural exit does not take you past a card reader although you could have tapped in within the Oystercard area.    Another anomaly  also arises at such stations.  The London Bridge - Twyford journey is an example of that where you could tap in at London Bridge but leave the train, and then the station, at Twyford without even seeing a place where you could tap out.

[EddieB]

Leaving my Cortina at a local station, and unhitching the pitchfork from the roof-rack, I tried out the benefits of through running from the Essex direction last week.

 

Interchange at Stratford was pretty straightforward, but I found that trains from Shenfield join the line from Abbey Wood before Whitechapel rather than Liverpool Street.  (The on-board maps in the carriage showed the original plan - those on the return journey the correct arrangement).

 

To continue beyond Paddington it was necessary to change trains - not an problem, as it meant getting out and waiting for the next service (3-minute interval).

 

Going to/from the tunnel sections involved a short stop in both directions.  (Signalling system switch over?).  Coming back, there was something of a queue building outside Paddington, where terminating services interleave with those coming from Heathrow/Reading and a little lateness can cause backlogs.

 

All very good, and I'm pleased that there is now a straightforward access to the Elizabeth line from the East.

 

One comment - it would be helpful on the surface section from the Heathrow/Reading to Abbey Wood to make a distinction (e.g. describe as "semi-fast") for trains that don't stop at all intermediate stations.  Catching a train outwards from Paddington, you can work out from the destination whether stops are made at Acton Main Line, West Ealing and Hanwell, but it's not so clear in the opposite direction.  While this information is given on the describer boards, you have to wait for the display to scroll to the right page - not always easy if you're boarding in a hurry.  (The Metropolitan line generally gets it right).

 

[St. Simon]

2 hours ago, EddieB said:

Going to/from the tunnel sections involved a short stop in both directions.  (Signalling system switch over?). 

Hi Eddie,

 

The stop is for pathing reasons, the transition between CBTC and AWS/TPWS (and later on ETCS) is completed on the move, so by the time you’ve come to a stand, the transition has already happened.

 

Simon

[toolongtoremember]

I suppose I'd better put this here... it was a cold wet day, but it was worth it. 

 

Also the new Elizabeth Line is astonishingly fast compared to previous methods available, a real game changer in London and welcome relief to the central line. 

[The Stationmaster]

11 hours ago, St. Simon said:

Hi Eddie,

 

The stop is for pathing reasons, the transition between CBTC and AWS/TPWS (and later on ETCS) is completed on the move, so by the time you’ve come to a stand, the transition has already happened.

 

Simon

Exactly so.  And the stops vary in length with majority being only a minute or two but some being as long as 5 minutes or more.   This sort of thing is often inevitable when you transition from a high intensity urban route to a long distance route with a greater mx of traffic types, speeds, acceleration rates, and stopping patterns, and the effect  those differences will have on the pathing of trains.

 

The time also provides a small, but no doubt at times useful, performance buffer at the interface between the two systems.

[St. Simon]

7 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

Exactly so.  And the stops vary in length with majority being only a minute or two but some being as long as 5 minutes or more.   This sort of thing is often inevitable when you transition from a high intensity urban route to a long distance route with a greater mx of traffic types, speeds, acceleration rates, and stopping patterns, and the effect  those differences will have on the pathing of trains.

 

The time also provides a small, but no doubt at times useful, performance buffer at the interface between the two systems.

Hi Mike,

 

I’m assuming that the stops is more to with Crossrail running close to the full May 2023 timetable already (albeit with Shenfield trains terminating at Paddington) but the GWML is running a November 2022 timetable, so the stops are to sync the two timetables up.

 

I’m only basing this on the fact that TFL are saying the stops are expected only until May 2023, and the fact that the stops are so variable.

 

I’m guessing there is also an element of allowance in them as well.

 

Simon

Edited November 16, 2022 by St. Simon

[The Stationmaster]

21 minutes ago, St. Simon said:

Hi Mike,

 

I’m assuming that the stops is more to with Crossrail running close to the full May 2023 timetable already (albeit with Shenfield trains terminating at Paddington) but the GWML is running a November 2022 timetable, so the stops are to sync the two timetables up.

 

I’m only basing this on the fact that TFL are saying the stops are expected only until May 2023, and the fact that the stops are so variable.

 

I’m guessing there is also an element of allowance in them as well.

 

Simon

I wonder about that Simon as the 387 service east of Reading seems to be very much what we were told a good while back was the long term plan - albeit now with stops in off-peak trains at West Draytion and Hayes which are probably as much a consequence of pathing difficulties as anything else.  However a West Drayton stop suits my daughter if she's heading for LHR as changing to the 'bus at West Drayton is the quickest & cheapest route from much of the Thames Valley to the airport (if you are using public transport).

 

It's now - in my experience - common for Up off-peak 387s to have to come to a stand between West Ealing and Ealing Broadway due to Liz Line trains not clearing the platform/overlap at the latter and losing a minute or two in consequence.  If more Liz Line trains will be running west of Paddington I can see delay problems increasing in the inner area unless they are going to skip stops.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Elizabeth line hits 100 million journeys milestone.

 

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/elizabeth-line-hits-100-million-journeys-milestone-60318/

 

"Over 100 million journeys have now been taken on the Elizabeth line (nee Crossrail) since it opened in May 2022.

Transport for London (TfL) data also shows that ridership on the line is currently above expected levels with around 600,000 journeys made each day, meaning the railway is already one of the busiest in the UK and is on track to break even by the end of the 2023/24 financial year.

 

The five most popular journeys made on the Elizabeth line all include Tottenham Court Road, with the most popular journey on the line being Tottenham Court Road to Stratford.

The popularity of Tottenham Court Road has propelled the station into the top five most-used stations in the TfL network, above Waterloo and Liverpool Street stations.

 

Although there have been some teething problems with the new line, especially in the western section, the most recent four-week period shows it reached a performance rating of nearly 93 per cent, compared to the average industry performance of 78.5 per cent.

 

On 21st May, TfL will introduce the final version of the Elizabeth line timetable.

The service in the central section between Paddington and Whitechapel will increase to up to 24 trains per hour during the peak and initially 16 trains per hour off-peak.

At this point, some direct services will be introduced from Shenfield to Heathrow Airport in the off-peak.

The final timetable will also remove any significant dwell times for trains between Paddington and Acton Main Line which have been in place since November 2022.........

 

.

 

 

 

.

[Northmoor]

47 minutes ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Elizabeth line hits 100 million journeys milestone.

 

https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/articles/elizabeth-line-hits-100-million-journeys-milestone-60318/.

12 months predicted traffic in considerably less than that.  Just shows that when it comes to transport infrastructure, "If you build it, they will come".

[figworthy]

20 hours ago, Northmoor said:

12 months predicted traffic in considerably less than that.  Just shows that when it comes to transport infrastructure, "If you build it, they will come".

 

Great news that it is exceeding expectations.  I wonder how many of those journeys are of the "track bashing" type and how many are getting from A to B.

 

Adrian

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, figworthy said:

 

Great news that it is exceeding expectations.  I wonder how many of those journeys are of the "track bashing" type and how many are getting from A to B.

 

Adrian

There aren't that many railway enthusiasts (or at least, track bashers) in the UK for it to be significant.  I'd be surprised if more than 1-2% of the journeys were "just for the sake of it".

[Ron Ron Ron]

12 hours ago, Northmoor said:

……. I'd be surprised if more than 1-2% of the journeys were "just for the sake of it".

……..and most of those would be non-enthusiasts, just ordinary punters, giving it a try in the early days.

You’d be lucky if 0.01 % were enthusiast “track-bashers”.

 

 

.

[The Stationmaster]

I wonder about the source of the revenue by station.  apart from the obvious mention of central area travel to what extent are they picking up revenue elsewhere particularly on the GWML where a lot of local journeys can only be made by using Liz Line trains?   Did they even have any idea of what sort of revenue they would pick up on the GWML?  

 

Having said that going back quite a few years when an LUL person came to speak to our local branch user group about Crossrail he didn't seem to have the faintest idea about local travel patterns and seemed to think that everyone would only use Crossrail to get into central London without changing trains at Paddington.  However as he was equally vague about several other aspects of the project that might just have been down to him?

[Siberian Snooper]

I have just spent a couple of nights out at Ealing and I caught the Liz line into central London in the last 2 mornings, yesterday the train was pretty full when I boarded at around 09.40, a fair number alighted at PAD, to be replaced by an equal or greater number, most of which alighted at Tottenham Court Road.

 

This morning I went out to Heathrow at around 10.20, the train was running late, a large proportion of the passengers alighted as I boarded, most had alighted by the time we had reached Hayes and Harlington and when I alighted at terminal 5 there was about a dozen of us.

 

I returned on the 11.01, having checked out where I needed to get to when I go to the states next month. Around a couple of dozen boarded with me and at terminals 2 & 3 quite a few more boarded and it filled steadily as we travelled in. I alighted at PAD and again quite a few also did the same.

 

 

[KingEdwardII]

I've just seen that the post-May 2023 timetables are now online for the Elizabeth line, here:

 

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/elizabeth-line-timetable-may-2023.pdf

 

This is finally the full deal, up to 24 trains per hour in the central section and at last the arrival of the mythical Shenfield to Heathrow direct services (takes about 1 hour 25 mins).

 

Awesome stuff.

 

Yours, Mike.

[lyneux]

3 hours ago, KingEdwardII said:

I've just seen that the post-May 2023 timetables are now online for the Elizabeth line, here:

 

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/elizabeth-line-timetable-may-2023.pdf

 

This is finally the full deal, up to 24 trains per hour in the central section and at last the arrival of the mythical Shenfield to Heathrow direct services (takes about 1 hour 25 mins).

 

Awesome stuff.

 

Yours, Mike.

 

Still not the promised 6TPH to Hanwell... :(

[The Stationmaster]

On 24/02/2023 at 12:52, lyneux said:

 

Still not the promised 6TPH to Hanwell... :(

Maybe the promise included trains passing through although more likely it was becayse they simply didn't understand the line capacity constraints as was the case with certain other of their ideas!!   Alas over the years TfL have made various promises about Crossrail trains west of Paddington which always  looked impossible to achieve in the real world.  And I wonder if 6 tph stopping at Hanwell might well fall into that category?

[jjb1970]

Picture from local shopping platform Carousel.sg. 

 

Static models seem pretty popular in Asia, generally diecast and in a range of scales. I was doing one of my occasional sweeps for model trains and this one turned up. They do a lot of MRT models (some are commissioned by the Land Transport Authority and sold through their official merchandise store) but I was surprised to see an Elizabeth line model.

 

Many of these are produced for train manufacturers for use as corporate freebies or to be sold as merchandise, some of them are beautifully done.

 

[lyneux]

Looks like its 1:68th Scale. So somewhere between S and OO.

 

I wonder why not make it one of the common scales?

 

Guy