Building kits for Tyneside in the BR era. J24 and PDK D49/2

[rowanj]

Next stage was to fabricate new frame extensions of the revised shape. This was easier than I feared. I just copied the Isinglass drawing, cut out the frame extension from the drawing, then sellotaped it to a piece of brass. I cut it to the  aproximate width, then used the Dremel to"file" it back to the shape needed, using the drawing as a guide. I did mess up one part, but otherwise I found it pretty simple. Better modellers than me will just measure, scribe and cut, The rough edges were filed back, double-checked against the drawing, touched up here and there, and that was it. It seemed to make a big difference to the model, and my morale, when this was tack-soldered in place.

[rowanj]

Rummaging around the spares box produced a dome and chimney. I can't remember the original source, but they match the drawing almost perfectly. Perching them on the loco, with the frame extensions fitted, persuaded me that I may as well carry on and finish the loco, for all its' faults. The drawing showed a cover of some sort behind the cab steps, which was missing from the model -were they sandboxes?- so they were cut from brass and provided a suitable base later for a sanding pipe for the rear wheels.

 

Some of these locos kept the GC buffers, and others got GS ones. The kit had GS ones on the front and GC on the back, and as my model got the GS ones, I pulled the unwanted ones out, trusting I had a spare set to replace them somewhere.

 

The A5;s were built with 5 bars on the bunker. Most A5/1's lost one , but, luckily, the A5/2;s kept the 5 bars, and this is was was on the kit. A few were plated- one actually was plated outside the bars- and I thought I may as well plate mine, just to add a bit of difference. This was done on the real thing to stop coal dust getting into the cab when coaling at mechanical plants.

 

On my loco, the "gap" above the coal level-below the roofline,was empty, whereas the plan and photos show a sort of plate which obviously stops coal, and anything else, getting into the cab. I just soldered a peice of brass from the inside of the cab to fill it up. All I added to the interior was a backhead (which meant I had to cit the rear shaft from the motor) and a cab floor.

 

 

[rowanj]

Then it was just a case of adding the final details. Etched models can look a little bare, so I like to add as manybits and bobs as possible. The cab roof was soldered in place, and the prominent rain strips and vent added.The kit had Ross Pop safety valves, but they looked too large/crude so I replced them with brass ones. the whitemetal whistle had broken off, but, again, I found one on a brass casting  in the ubiqutous spares box.GS buffers at the rear and steam heating pipes at both ends were added, and, finally  sandboxes above the footplate were shaped from a whitemetal casting, sandpipes to the rear wheels  The front ones will go pn the chassis upgrade when I fit the missing brakes Then up to the layout to see if it worked.

[rowanj]

A coat of paint hides a multitude of sins, but also reveals a few more. After a bit more work, the loco will get a couple of coats of black and then lining. A rummage through the drawer revealed I had no suitable curves, and am in despair with the current state of Modelmaster, so will try Railtek, who have proven in the past to be fast and reliable. so the next post should wind up the A5/2 saga.

Edited April 27, 2023 by rowanj

[rowanj]

Well, you can't make a silk purse out of a sows' ear, but I think it looks a bit better than when it started, and looks more like an A5/2 than an A5/1. 

[rowanj]

Just to summarise, 

Cab reprofiled, and fromt spectacle plates altered. New cab rof formed and detailed.

New re-shaped frame extensions fitted. Vacuum steam pipe moved to LH side.

Sandboxes fitted to footplate top,. and covers added behind cab steps. Plates added behind bunker bars. LNER GS buffers and steam heating pipes added. Cab handrails fitted.Plate added to rear cab. Backhead and cab floor fitted.

Repinted and lined - Railtec lining transfers.windows glazed, coal added. Ross Pop safety valves, whistle, chimney and dome altered.

 

The Isinglass drawing and yeadon volume were invaluable in this work. Whether the conversion is worthwhile or succesful depends, I suppose, on ones willingness to accept compromise. Most of my issues stem from the state of the starting point, and in hindsight, I wish I had removed and replaced the valences. I suppose I could have unsoldered the whole lot, but I didn;t and need to live with that decision.

Assuming this was a Craftsman kit, I see no reason why an unbuilt one could not be altered to get an A5/2, It might also be possible to make some of the extra changes  to get the correct modified dimensions of footplate and tank sides. 

 

As for altering a Sonic model, the changes needed to the cab would take a better man than I, but I imagine the other changes are doable.

 

Hope this has been interesting. My workbench is now bare.

[MarkC]

Well done, John. Looks like it'll be time to start on my Craftsman kit once my A8 is finished, eh? Will get an Isinglass drawing organised too.

 

Cheers

Mark

[rowanj]

10 hours ago, MarkC said:

Well done, John. Looks like it'll be time to start on my Craftsman kit once my A8 is finished, eh? Will get an Isinglass drawing organised too.

 

Cheers

Mark

Thanks, Mark. The Isinglass drawing was invaluable, as was the Yeadon volume. Next time I see an unbuilt Craftsman kit at a feceny price, I may have a go at building another- it was good fun. 

All the best

[John Tomlinson]

I might be getting totally confused, but from memory there's an issue with the Craftsman kit as manufactured, namely the sides of the rear bunker are in line with those of the water tanks. They should be set in as we see in the model here. So if this is a Craftsman kit the original builder did make a correction in the course of his/her work.

 

John.

[micklner]

I have read the kit is too narrow across the body , no idea if correct or by how much ?.

[rowanj]

I'd hesitate to use the body I had to check  Cratsman's dimensions, and I havent found a description of a build to see what, if anything, might have been done to the kit by experts to remedy any issues.   I would say that it would seem to be tricky to build the kit  with the tank sides and bunker in line, so the kit is probably ok in this respect ie the line of the bunker behind that of the tanks. I did find a comment that the bunker rear was too narrow, but the amount wasn't specified.

 

The A5/2 was narrower by 2 inches -0.8mm in OO-from the tank front to the rear, and I do wonder if the effort to reduce this on the footplate, tank, cab and bunker sides (and rear) would be worth it. I might, however, try to add the additional 4 inches to the overall length which occurs between the rear bogie wheel and leading driver- the A5/2 does have a slightly "stretched "look compared to the A5/1,

Edited May 1, 2023 by rowanj

[MarkC]

On 30/04/2023 at 11:19, John Tomlinson said:

I might be getting totally confused, but from memory there's an issue with the Craftsman kit as manufactured, namely the sides of the rear bunker are in line with those of the water tanks. They should be set in as we see in the model here. So if this is a Craftsman kit the original builder did make a correction in the course of his/her work.

 

John.

Hi John. I've been searching for the thread which discussed the mods needed to produce an A5/2 and/or errors in the Craftsman kit. No joy as yet.

 

Mark

[rowanj]

I have been gradually assembling a small fleet of NCB locos based on prototypes found in the Northumberland and Durham Coalfields, and, one day, I may have a layout to run them on. Paul Sterling produced a 3D print of the Lambton No's 5 and 29 which are now preserved on the NYMR, though I believe only No 5 was released for sale - I think 29 was reserved for copyright purposes. At the time, I seriously considered having one, but it was when I already had a pile of kits which had built up, so let it go.

On one of my occasional visits to Ebay, I came upon the listing for a few "seconds" where the printing had failed for whatever reason, One was only missing cab handrails, which I would probably have replaced in metal anyway, so I ordered it. I assume the seller was Paul, though I'm not sure.

The body is designed to fit a Bachmann 56xx chassis, and I picked one up when my wife wasnt looking at Toddington during the recent GWR Cotswold Steam Gala, Combined cost of body and chaiis was £65,

Paul posted some details of his work on both RMWeb and the LNER site, though neither take the build through to completion so I thought I may as well show how I am getting on . Mine will be built as the NCB versin, without some of the additions made at the NYMR to allow No % to pull passenger stock. The loco last steamed in 1990 or so, and, although restoration to working order is supposedly in hand, it looks to be a slow process.

[rowanj]

The first task is obviously to get the body to fit the chassis, and this is easier said than done. To be fair, Paul mentions that a lot of metal needs to be removed and he is rigt. The photo shows what I had to remove, using a Dremel. To do this properly, the wheels and motor should really be removed, but I was too lazy. The chassis came DCC ready, but my carving up caused me to cut a couple of wires, and I decided to just remove the recoder and rewir the motor directly to the pickups. With greater care, this would not have been necessary, as the decoder does fit inside the smokebox. I also had to cut off the fronk brakes/sandpipes and the rear guard irons to get the body to sit properly i.e to get it lowered so that the bottom of the tanks on the chassis are flush with the footplate on the body. For the last bit of fitting, I carefully shaved the body rather than the chassis and eventually all was well. I was continually checking that the chassis still ran during all this butchery, and , to be honest, I am relieved that it did, and very nicely too.

 

The photos show what I got in terms of the body, which is a very nice print. I'm not sure if Paul supplies anything else with the "proper" version, but I'll need to fit buffers, couplings, steps ,handrails and other pipework and lampirons to add the necessary detail.

[rowanj]

 A bit more work on the Robert Stephenson Ex-Lambton No 5 has involved some renovation of the chassis to restore the mouldings for the front sandbox/brake/guard irons, The rear guard irons needed to be removed from the chassis to allow the body to fit, and these will be fitted to the loco body in due course,

A squint under bright light showed dimples where holes are drilled for handrail knobs. I also drilled the smokebox for the knob at the top, then found a really good front -on view of No5  which shows, at least at some point, that there were actually 2 offset "knobs"  on the smokebox. Never mind- the hole in the middle will do for a lamp iron, There are only 2 of these on the footplate in NCB days, as far as I can see, The damaged cab handrails have been fitted, as has the handrail at the rear. This runs across the full width of the bunker back, and looks to be welded directly in plce i.e not fixed usinh handrail knobs. This was standard NER practice, and is one of the common errors when building tenders- a fate I managed to avoid thanks to a timely e.mail from Arthur Kimber back in the day,

The print comes with what I believe is a vacuum injector on the RH boiler side, which was fitted at the NYMR in prservation. It was easily removed, and is seen lying in front of the engine. Two Wakefield lubricators are fitted - some locos only had  one, usually on the LH side, but the print is correct, I think, for No 5. However they are not particularly well made - they are just flat boxes- so if, as I think, I have some spare brass castings, I'll probably replace them.

The rest of the build should be straightforward, so hopefully the next post will be the completed loco prior to going into the paint shop,

Edited June 1, 2023 by rowanj

[rowanj]

I have completed the loco body, and while it may seem I needed to do a fair bit, this is not to imply an underlying criticism of the print. I actually think those who make an attempt to produce these things should be congratulated rather than castigated as often seems to happen. I have been following another popular thread over the last couple of days where the comments are more akin to a script from Last Of The Summer Wine, but without the humour.

 

Anyway, here are the latest photos. The chassis has been put back  together and the wheels and coupling rods painted. Some details had to be fitted to the loco rather than the chassis  to get the body to fit, and I added an extra pair of sandpipes to the rear drivers, missing on the 56xx chassis but present on the real loco.

 

One major change I made to the body involved the area under both buffer beams where, as the photo shows, a slot/gap is shown to allow couplings to pass through, This is fair enough, but I'll be fokkowing my usual practice and fitting a"bar" a la Tony Wright, so I filled in the gap as on the prototype.

Edited June 8, 2023 by rowanj

[rowanj]

The completed loco has now had its; coat of primer. I like Halfords Red for black locos, as this can allow it to bleed through and represent rust if that is useful. the loco now has steps fitted, handrails, lampirons, smokebox dart and lubricators fitted, No 5 and its ' sisters had a regulator rod fitted along the top LH side, so this was necessary. There is a moulding showing where it enters the smokebox, but this is a bit punty, so I used a grass casting close to what the real thing looked like from the spares box. There are lubricaors on the print, but are just a bare box. I thought about adding a wheel, but in the event, replaced them with brass castings I had in stock.

Ross Pop valves are from Hornby, The whistle is a problem. The loco in NCB days had an elaborate American-style chime whistle fitted to the roof, thogh this seems to have disappeared in preservation. EBAY had what seemes like a lovely version  at a reasonable pice, but it comes from the US and the postage on a £3 casing was shown at £20, so for now, the whistle is a plain old thing until I can find something better.

[rowanj]

And, finally. body and chassis re-united on the test track. It will get a spray of halfords Matt Black, then I need to see if I still have any NCB transfers, before contacting Railtec.

 

One thing I wish were different is the cab roof. In the development phase, early prints were made without the roof, but the production run has the roof as part of the print. Personally, I would have preferred to see the roof as a separate part, as this would allow the cab to be painted and detailed, I suppose it can still be done with those with more nimble fingers than me, but it's a pity.

Edited June 8, 2023 by rowanj

[Paul_sterling]

Hi John.

 

Great pics and we'll done with the shell. The chassis block isn't the easiest to alter. Like you I did my own without dismantling, when I made a second for a customer, I stripped it down to the bare block. 

 

Re the cab. The reason for cab off in the prototypes was they were printed on an FDM printer and it saved a lot of time in print and post processing. The 'production' shells were done with SLA printing and the need for greater structural strength to avoid warping meant it was a better compromise to have the cab roof on.

 

The lambton hooter Number 5 has is I think the one on no.29 now. It was roof mounted, but it has run with a different whistle that looked a bit like a trumpet!

 

I've now taken a leading role in the work to restore the real No.5 and the sales of shells has contributed towards that. I'm hoping that I can help kick start the restoration. 

 

 

Thanks  

Paul. 

[MarkC]

On 02/05/2023 at 00:13, MarkC said:

Hi John. I've been searching for the thread which discussed the mods needed to produce an A5/2 and/or errors in the Craftsman kit. No joy as yet.

 

Mark

@John Tomlinson & others - I know you shouldn't "quote your own post", but it freshens the thread.

 

Here's the post detailing the A5 errors in the Craftsman kit, which will be of interest to some. It's 3 years old, so easily missed...

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/64295-wright-writes/page/1821/#comment-3980222

[rowanj]

54 minutes ago, MarkC said:

@John Tomlinson & others - I know you shouldn't "quote your own post", but it freshens the thread.

 

Here's the post detailing the A5 errors in the Craftsman kit, which will be of interest to some. It's 3 years old, so easily missed...

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/64295-wright-writes/page/1821/#comment-3980222

Is this how you spend your life on the High Seas, Mark- tracking down obscure posts? Well done remembering this one.

 

I hope it isnt the Isinglass Drawings which are at fault, as I am about to use one to build an A5'2. Well, for starters I'm going to use one as a template to get a footplate, and then see how I get on, It will be a long job, but there is no hurry.  I may post progress - it is a long, long time since I scratch built a loco,

 

John

Edited June 8, 2023 by rowanj

[rowanj]

30 minutes ago, Paul_sterling said:

Hi John.

 

Great pics and we'll done with the shell. The chassis block isn't the easiest to alter. Like you I did my own without dismantling, when I made a second for a customer, I stripped it down to the bare block. 

 

Re the cab. The reason for cab off in the prototypes was they were printed on an FDM printer and it saved a lot of time in print and post processing. The 'production' shells were done with SLA printing and the need for greater structural strength to avoid warping meant it was a better compromise to have the cab roof on.

 

The lambton hooter Number 5 has is I think the one on no.29 now. It was roof mounted, but it has run with a different whistle that looked a bit like a trumpet!

 

I've now taken a leading role in the work to restore the real No.5 and the sales of shells has contributed towards that. I'm hoping that I can help kick start the restoration. 

 

 

Thanks  

Paul. 

Thanks Paul _ guessed it was one of your prints. I am enjoying getting it together, and seem to recall you had a Lamnton Kitson in development.  Restoring No 5 is a worthy cause - it looked pretty sad when I saw it last October, but I did slip a fiver into the box at the door of the Deviation Shed at Grosmont.

 

John

[Paul_sterling]

13 minutes ago, rowanj said:

Thanks Paul _ guessed it was one of your prints. I am enjoying getting it together, and seem to recall you had a Lamnton Kitson in development.  Restoring No 5 is a worthy cause - it looked pretty sad when I saw it last October, but I did slip a fiver into the box at the door of the Deviation Shed at Grosmont.

 

John

 

Hi John. 

 

Yes it was me on ebay too. I actually did the model of 29 before no.5, way back in 2019 (!). It sold really well, but was a bit of a hindrance in the end, because I was printing so many, I didn't have time to work on anything elseand no.5 would never have been finished. I sold the CAD to railway mania, which in hindsight I should have kept as so many still want 29, I could've roped my wife into that side of batch printing. 

 

Re. No.5, thank you for the donation. Plan is to relaunch the trust to new memberships, with an aim for a few hundred members (?!) To help .ake the trust sustainable in keeping at least one of the engines in service all the time, and good overlaps with both running together. 

 

Thanks. 

Paul..

[MarkC]

9 hours ago, rowanj said:

Is this how you spend your life on the High Seas, Mark- tracking down obscure posts? Well done remembering this one.

 

 

Hi John

 

We're moving about a bit too much for any modelling of an evening at present, so using t'interweb for research is a worthwhile alternative!

 

Mark

[John Tomlinson]

12 hours ago, MarkC said:

@John Tomlinson & others - I know you shouldn't "quote your own post", but it freshens the thread.

 

Here's the post detailing the A5 errors in the Craftsman kit, which will be of interest to some. It's 3 years old, so easily missed...

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/64295-wright-writes/page/1821/#comment-3980222

 

Many thanks for this. Forewarned is forearmed as they say!

 

John.