Grimly Feendish Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 Hi All, I'm playing with the idea of an N Gauge layout of Sonning cutting set in the 1970's. I've been kicking around ideas for a track plan and the drawing below shows where my thinking is at the moment. This will be a "watching the trains go by" layout. It will be DCC and capable of automation. I've built the storage yard around the idea of using a Nelevtor http://www.nelevation.com/nelevator/. I've included some conventional storage loops, for putting stock on/off the layout and as insurance in case the Nelevator is late or doesn't work well enough. As you can see, I've used 6 scissors crossovers to allow trains from any line to access the Nelevator and to allow a train to move from a main to a relief line or vice-versa. The scenic section will start on the left hand side using the A4 road bridge as a view blocker. I am thinking I'll just include the original (East) bridge since as far as I can tell the second bridge was added in the mid-seventies. What the view blocker will be on the right hand (East) side I don't know yet. It may be the signal gantry and a lot of foliage, or perhaps I will move one of the off scene bridges West. All the points are Peco med. and the minimum radius is 12". Anyhow, I wonder if anyone has any thoughts on the track plan. Thanks, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 11, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2016 Have you left enough room for the scissors crossings? They look a little small on your plan. Beyond that it looks like a good plan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 11, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2016 Are you going to be content with a "helicopter view" of your trains? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted January 11, 2016 Share Posted January 11, 2016 (edited) Looks like a thoroughly bad idea, a line in a cutting. anywhere between Didcot and Acton where the line is on an embankment or viaduct would be better, or North Wales coast, of (double track only) Dawlish, line against a cliff, sea wall in front masking baseboard edge would be better but line in a cutting is about as bad as it gets visually. An overbridge at the right hand end so you view the line over the parapet would help, or a video cam to film the line CCTV style and project it on a screen butm you might as well watch a DVD Sorry. I have a great helicopter view of my middle station "Goat of Barton" from my bedroom window and a loft layout which ios about impossible to get a decent view of through poor thinking at the initial stage so please think again. Edited January 11, 2016 by DavidCBroad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimly Feendish Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 Thanks for the feedback folks. Kris, I know it doesn't show clearly on the image, but there is enough space for the scissors, at least if the 3rdplanit software is right. The point of the helicopter view is a good one. I'm thinking a small mock up might help me with this decision. What I like about Sonning Cutting is it's iconic status, the variety of traffic and the wealth of photographs available. Cheers, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Pilotman Posted January 19, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2016 Just a thought but I think it could be better to model either the west or east end of the cutting rather than the middle. If you model the west end, you will keep the bit where the up relief line weaves around the A4 bridge pier (the two bridges on the far left of your photo) so at least there is some variation from four parallel lines. If you model the east end, perhaps you could shorten reality a bit and have the Warren Road bridge (just right of centre in your photo) as the western end. It's the nicest looking of the bridges in Sonning Cutting. Either way, the trains won't be "hidden" in a cutting for the whole layout. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimly Feendish Posted January 23, 2016 Author Share Posted January 23, 2016 Just a thought but I think it could be better to model either the west or east end of the cutting rather than the middle. If you model the west end, you will keep the bit where the up relief line weaves around the A4 bridge pier (the two bridges on the far left of your photo) so at least there is some variation from four parallel lines. If you model the east end, perhaps you could shorten reality a bit and have the Warren Road bridge (just right of centre in your photo) as the western end. It's the nicest looking of the bridges in Sonning Cutting. Either way, the trains won't be "hidden" in a cutting for the whole layout. That's an interesting idea. I'll pull it up on Google earth and have a look. I'm also wondering about having the lines closer to the edge of the board and omitting the near side of the cutting. That way the rear of the cutting forms a nice backdrop. Thanks, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilts Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I feel that Sonning Cutting is great! A friend of mine said that there used to be an unofficial timber platform erected, and the regular drivers, even on the expresses, were 'looped' down to the station to pick up passengers. Same story with goods. When this was discovered by an unsuspecting Charles Collett, travelling on the train from London to Swindon, the GWR tried to keep it quiet. The station was then run unofficially into BR times. A friend's parents recall the station. Basic diagram enclosed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted August 24, 2017 Share Posted August 24, 2017 Hi All, The area just outside Twyford station (London end) is also worth considering as there was a massive cross over Junction, signal box and a refuge siding as well. Could make for a little bit of interest but I don't know when it was all removed. I've considered it myself in the past... I hope this helps! All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted August 25, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2017 I think a layout in a cutting can be made to work visually; friend of mine build Llanishen (north Cardiff) in N quite successfully. But it needs a bit of thought, especially as Sonning is deep and and wooded on each side. Your operating/viewing position needs to be right up to the edge of the cutting, and the track needs to be a quite a low level off the floor assuming your operating/viewing point is a normal office/kitchen type chair. You could of course model the cutting edge lower on the viewing side and say your viewpoint was half way down the slope, or 'cut in' a viewing window at an angle to the tracks, so that your view would be a skewed three quarters one of trains approaching or departing, perhaps framed by the A4 or Warren Road bridges depending on whether you were looking towards Reading or Paddington. Mark's station doesn't make sense in the form he's drawn it out as, as the formation here is, from south to north, Down Main, Up Main, Down Relief, Up relief; a train using the platform would have had to run through a facing crossover from the Up Main or Down Relief and end up facing the oncoming traffic, which would have caused chaos on what is a very busy section of the GWML. It is possible that trains on the Down Main or Up relief used platforms, but would not have been 'looped' in order to do so. Sorry, Mark, just my reading of the plan, which would make sense for example on the GNR 4 track section as the formation here, West to East, was Down Relief (actually, Down Slow, Relief was a GW/WR term), Down Fast, Up Fast, Up Slow; AFAIK the LNW was similar, while the Midland was more like the GW and an 'UP Down Up Down' formation. I have never heard of this station and assume it to have been some sort of request stop; can't see how an express on the Down Main would have been flagged down though. Or some form of staff halt not in the public timetables. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 25, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2017 Hi All, The area just outside Twyford station (London end) is also worth considering as there was a massive cross over Junction, signal box and a refuge siding as well. Could make for a little bit of interest but I don't know when it was all removed. I've considered it myself in the past... I hope this helps! All the best, Castle The running junction went in October 1961 when Twyford East 'box was closed but the Down Relief refuge Siding might have lasted some time subsequently I thinki Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Hi John, I reckon a cutting layout is no problem as long as the side nearer the visitors is kept low or is allowed to just rise up to bridges. Our Preston club had a layout called Bee Lane which was set in a cutting with three bridges over the railway. Two bridges hid the exit at the ends of the layout and the side nearest the viewer rose up to the bridge in the middle and back down again. As for the track plan I would simplify the pointwork. Just have a single crossover in each direction at each end of the layout. If you want to go fiddle to nelevator then you might have to go once round to get to the crossover and vice versa but a lot simpler for exhibition running. Also two scissors between up and down gives all the possibilities but is it going to be strictly necessary when running lots of trains on a continuous basis for a show. Every movement between the two lines will tie up both lines and possibly two operators. Maybe only one end is needed and you can run once round the layout to get things where you want? Alternatively two crossovers between up and down, one at each end. Just thoughts! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davepallant Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Just thinking of an n elevator and two operators..... Need some good interlocking! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Winterbury Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 The plan Mark assembled is fairly inaccurate, though the history is correct. My grandmother used to remember this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Winterbury Posted September 4, 2017 Share Posted September 4, 2017 The platforms consisted of one on the north of the cutting and one island. This allowed the up main to accept trains. There was a signal box there, so trains were flagged through by the signalman. A friend's family recalls paying 3 shillings to travel to London. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted September 4, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 4, 2017 The platforms consisted of one on the north of the cutting and one island. This allowed the up main to accept trains. There was a signal box there, so trains were flagged through by the signalman. A friend's family recalls paying 3 shillings to travel to London. That makes a lot more sense to me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimly Feendish Posted September 4, 2017 Author Share Posted September 4, 2017 (edited) Mark, Castle, Johnster, Dave, Ed, Stationmaster and all, An unofficial station, and on the main line from London no less! That's remarkable! Thanks for all your input. Actually, since my original post things have moved along a bit. Moved along the line - to Twyford (see what I did there ) Some more thinking made me think that some more operational interest would be good. Twyford offers a junction station and a cross-over, so that's where I alighted. I've been meaning to start a thread - I guess I should now. So far I have the woodwork done and the fiddle yard laid and wired up. Fiddle yard plan is the same. This is a stay at home layout. Some pics follow as evidence. Edited September 4, 2017 by Grimly Feendish 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 5, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 5, 2017 I have quite a few pics of Twyford if you're interested; what period are you going for? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimly Feendish Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share Posted September 5, 2017 I have quite a few pics of Twyford if you're interested; what period are you going for? Mike, That would be a great help. I'm going for the whole of the 70's, from Warships to HSTs. From what I've seen from perusing the 'net it seems the station was pretty grimy and run down in the 70's. Like most of the network I suppose. While I was over last autumn I took a lot of photos of the station. I'd love to know what's changed. As far as I can tell, the buildings look like they haven't had much structural change. The footbridge has been renovated of course, but it seems not to have changed the external outline too much. Although, in some of the 70's pictures I've seen it is hard to tell if the windows were boarded up or are just very dirty! I have wondered when the second siding in the bay disappeared, and what it was used for when it was there. I also wonder if the signaling layout has changed. From what I can see from photos, it looks to be much the same. I have many questions, both on Twyford and the WR in the 70's, but as you can see from the pictures it's still early days for the layout. Many thanks, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Winterbury Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Twyford in the 70s? My friend Tim remembers clocking the train movements over about an hour in 1978. Want it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Winterbury Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Didcot 1 1:2 hours.xlsx This is the sketchy chart he drew, made into an Excel spreadsheet Edited September 5, 2017 by Ed Winterbury Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimly Feendish Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Didcot 1 1:2 hours.xlsx This is the sketchy chart he drew, made into an Excel spreadsheet Thanks Ed, very interesting. Didn't know 40's made it to Twyford. John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 6, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 6, 2017 The signalling was altered in 1961 - when the East and West 'boxes went and colour lights signals were provided on the Main and Relief Lines and again in 1972 when the 'plywood wonder' 1961 'box went and the whole lot was put onto Reading panel with colour light signals also provided on the branch at the Twyford end. You'll find the 1972 signalling notice here and it shows the dock siding (which had also been the branch runround loop) and Up Refuge Siding still surviving although all the other sidings had gone by then, there was a further alteration later in the 1970s when the remaining sidings went and a new trailing crossover was provided west of the station but I don't recall the date of that. Signal UM30 was also resited west of the Up main platform and to be honest I thought that had happened before 1972 as I knew the chap who had it moved and he had probably retired by then. I've got close up pictures of all the colour light signals on the platforms which is what you would need for the 1970s. http://www.signallingnotices.org.uk/scans/74/1972%20-%20IXO%20124%20Reading%20Eastern%20Ex.pdf You'll find various of my 1960s pictures at Twyford in Posts 1, 18, 32, & 33 of this thread - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66924-the-stationmaster-goes-train-spotting-part-1/ My pictures then jump forwards several decades although much of the station was unchanged apart from the paint scheme, the change of use of several rooms, and the demolition of the original footbridge and the building of the present one. Oh and I have got one or two pictures which show bits of the canopy roofs from above - taken in recent times but in reality little had changed. Basically in teh 1970s the appearance was litle changed from the '60s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Winterbury Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Yeah, the 40s did go to Twyford occasionally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimly Feendish Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 Yeah, the 40s did go to Twyford occasionally. Sounds like an excuse to tell my wife I "have" to get a Farish 40 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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