jmh67 Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Imagine the following situation: The year is 2010, give or take a few. David Smith & Sons, scrapyard owners in Nether Kingsbury somewhere in Northern England, are doing a roaring trade in all sorts of bent and twisted metal by the wagonload(s). They have got their own industrial siding branching off the old Kingsbury line in a trailing junction near Smithy Lane station (currently the end of the line), complete with runaround loop. In fact, their trade has helped to keep the line alive until commuter traffic picked up. Every now and then a diesel locomotive brings some empty wagons and collects the loaded ones, squeezing in between the passenger services. So far, so good. I take it that scrap metal is carried in open wagons. But which ones would be appropriate for the recent past? What type of locomotive could pull them? What company could the locomotives and the wagons belong to? I guess the traffic from a (however busy) scrapyard would be too small fry for the big ones like Freightliner, Schenker, or Railfreight? Of course, it would be nice if models were available. Thanks in advance for any help! Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taigatrommel Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Here are a couple of examples: https://www.flickr.com/photos/31848041@N08/5015328234 These are the wagons, or something close to it: http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/43607/33-430Z-Bachmann-SSA-Scrap-Wagon-number-47005-EWS-weathered Similar wagons with Freightliner traction: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ews60002/14144636561/ Longer, bogie wagons: https://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_harvey_railway_photos/6254863351 http://www.ehattons.com/31417/Dapol_B777e_MBA_Monsterbox_5_in_EWS_livery_500112_Hattons_Ltd_edition_of_200/StockDetail.aspx Similar wagons with DRS traction: https://www.flickr.com/photos/neildowning/13064512223 That's a start anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Most, if not all, of the FOCs, show no interest in wagonload haulage; what they would do in circumstances like the yard you describe is to wait until enough full wagons have accumulated to run a block train. This is what is done with such scrapyards that retain a rail service, such as the one at Exeter, which gets a weekly service, I believe. What you could do, if you haven't got space for trains of any length, is to have an off-scene 'exchange sidings', where the main line engine would drop off empties, and pick up full wagons. The yard itself could be served by something like a Hornby 'Sentinel', which would bring in the empties, 'spot' them for loading, then return them to the exchange sidings. Regarding the wagons themselves, there are several potential candidates:- The bogie MBA, available from Bachmann, and possibly Dapol The SSA, either in EWS or repainted Standard Rail Leasing livery, available from Bachmann The MEA, available from Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Regarding the wagons themselves, there are several potential candidates:- The bogie MBA, available from Bachmann, and possibly Dapol The SSA, either in EWS or repainted Standard Rail Leasing livery, available from Bachmann The MEA, available from Bachmann. MBA http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mba SSA http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/scrapwagonssa/e51efd543 MEA http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mea Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmh67 Posted January 29, 2016 Author Share Posted January 29, 2016 Thank you, that already helps quite a bit. I have seen a short train of bogie wagons standing at Laisterdyke quite a few times while I was living in West Yorkshire, but an engine with them I've only ever seen on a short video on youtube. That was actually one of the places that made me think of modelling a simular setup, only compressed to fit on a shelf. I know that single wagonloads are rarely moved onto the mainline, but I'll have to make the layout fit the available space, and will have to pretend that every wagon stands for two in "real life". A good thing that the SSA and MEA are still around in 2015. However, I might need to look for a shorter locomotive. As much as I like the look of class 66, they are awfully long beasts ... The idea with the hidden exchange sidings is interesting, but it might require a more elaborate trackplan than I had in mind. Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 One caveat is the SSA wagons in use today were rebodied a few years back and so are now different looking to the SSA as tooled by Bachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Couple of rail served scrapyards near me EMR, Sheffield They certainly send scrap out by the bogie-open train-load and have a couple of locos* on site for moving wagons around. It definitely worth googling them to see what they do and how they operate. Booths, Rotherham I don't, however, think any of their scrap goes out by rail, they just regularly scrap rail vehicles. With regards to mainline power, it would be just as likely to come from one of the 'big' FOCs as one of the little ones and not all flows would necessarily be operated by the same FOC *Don't know how many of their locos work Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 One caveat is the SSA wagons in use today were rebodied a few years back and so are now different looking to the SSA as tooled by Bachmann. Repeating yourself Martyn http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/7728-lost-wagon-types/?p=67245 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 Apparently the HSA conversions of HEA hoppers had just gone out of use by 2010, but maybe they were kept on to serve your scrappie? Gives another short wagon to provide a bit of variety Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmh67 Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 Many thanks for the suggestions so far. At least, the wagon situation does not look hopeless :-). What about locomotives? I have seen class 66 on what looked like "odd jobs" around 2010, but as I wrote, the are a bit on the long side. What other types might have been used, in particular in Northern England? Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Regarding Booths, Rotherham - I've not known them to send out scrap by rail in the last 10 years or so that I've been in the area, and many, but not all, of the incoming rail vehicles for scrap arrive by road. However, at the end of 2015, there was a working of FL coal hoppers for scrap a couple of times a week, 6 bogie coal hoppers at a time, of which 3 were for brake force (the scrappers must have had their braking equipment isolated or removed), so only 3 delivered at a time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Regarding Booths, Rotherham - I've not known them to send out scrap by rail in the last 10 years or so that I've been in the area, and many, but not all, of the incoming rail vehicles for scrap arrive by road. However, at the end of 2015, there was a working of FL coal hoppers for scrap a couple of times a week, 6 bogie coal hoppers at a time, of which 3 were for brake force (the scrappers must have had their braking equipment isolated or removed), so only 3 delivered at a time. I think Booths probably sell most of their scrap locally, in which case it'll go by road. A lot of export scrap to China is simply tipped into ISO containers and either sent by road or rail to the port. The Freightliner hoppers are being stripped of running gear (which is being sent to Poland for use in new-build aggregate wagons for Freightliner Poland) and then cut-up. I believe 50 or so are being so treated. A lot of the stock that is being brought in by road has been standing still for so long that it would cost more to get it railworthy than the scrap would fetch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted January 31, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2016 Thank you, that already helps quite a bit. I have seen a short train of bogie wagons standing at Laisterdyke quite a few times while I was living in West Yorkshire, but an engine with them I've only ever seen on a short video on youtube. That was actually one of the places that made me think of modelling a simular setup, only compressed to fit on a shelf. I know that single wagonloads are rarely moved onto the mainline, but I'll have to make the layout fit the available space, and will have to pretend that every wagon stands for two in "real life". A good thing that the SSA and MEA are still around in 2015. However, I might need to look for a shorter locomotive. As much as I like the look of class 66, they are awfully long beasts ... The idea with the hidden exchange sidings is interesting, but it might require a more elaborate trackplan than I had in mind. Martin The Laisterdyke service runs as required when they want a full trainload moved. However as the siding and loop at Laisterdyke isn't long enough the empties are staged at, I think, Neville Hill and then half the train is tripped over to Laisterdyke, loaded and taken back, then the other half goes for loading. I suppose that your 'script could well be that a few wagons at a time are brought over for loading to make up a full train. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Some of these trains of MBAs weren't that long. I'd go MBAs with DB class 66 - both readily available and very common .We get them going out every week here in Swindon , with baled shiny square scrap to Liverpool Kernow model rail are doing an EWS SSA, but I'm not sure how accurate it will be as I think they are retaining the original tooling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmh67 Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 It's been a while, and I haven't even started building, but at least I have sort of decided that the layout will need to be in British N scale. That way, a class 66 and a number of bogie wagons look manageable even on an 8 ft long baseboard. What about passenger rolling stock? Are sprinters and/or pacers in Northern Rail colours available in N scale? Jan-Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 The Laisterdyke service runs as required when they want a full trainload moved. However as the siding and loop at Laisterdyke isn't long enough the empties are staged at, I think, Neville Hill and then half the train is tripped over to Laisterdyke, loaded and taken back, then the other half goes for loading. I suppose that your 'script could well be that a few wagons at a time are brought over for loading to make up a full train. Jamie The problem at Laisterdyke is the headshunt is only big enough for 10 bogie wagons and these have to be propelled in off the main line and when loaded the train has to go into Interchange to run round before going to Healy Mills! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted October 29, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 29, 2016 Sprinters (150/3/6/8) are or have been available in N—153 and 156 from Dapol, the others from Bachmann. Dapol are doing the 142; it should be available fairly soon. No 143; Realtrack Models talked about doing N gauge versions of the 144 when they first announced the OO version, but it appears to have gone very quiet for a long time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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