Castle Aching

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Which is precisely why it is an evil; innocent until proven guilty is the more just proposition, IMHO. 

Ah well, we shall have to agree to differ.

[Compound2632]

34 minutes ago, Talltim said:

Can’t believe the most relevant cob  hasn't been mentioned

 

 

Palmerston + Prince + David Lloyd George, The Cob 16-4-16 (V28227)
by Tim Easter on Flickr

 

Not quite sure how many engines that counts as.

 

But it's the American-style clerestory carriage leading that has me puzzled - I can't track it down. Not actually FR/WHR stock?

[St Enodoc]

7 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Not quite sure how many engines that counts as.

I think, being pedantic, that it's four engines but only three locomotives.

[NeilHB]

21 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Not quite sure how many engines that counts as.

 

But it's the American-style clerestory carriage leading that has me puzzled - I can't track it down. Not actually FR/WHR stock?

 

It belongs to Adrian Shooter, and is based on a (slightly shortened) parlour car from the Sandy River and Rangeley Lakes Railroad. Built by Boston Lodge in 2004/5 for Adrian's private garden railway (Beeches Light Railway) on his which his ex DHR B class runs. 

[Compound2632]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

I think, being pedantic, that it's four engines but only three locomotives.

 

But if a double Fairlie is one locomotive in Ffestiniog terms, surely any non-double Fairlie is equal to only half a locomotive, so the combination seen is equal to a double-header?

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Ah well, we shall have to agree to differ.

 

You might feel differently were you ever to be released on a 'not proven' verdict.

 

 

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

You might feel differently were you ever to be released on a 'not proven' verdict.

 

 

Smith's River class 4-6-0s spring to mind. Unjustly prosecuted by the Highland's Civil Engineer and consigned to the ignominy of being sold on to the Caledonian.

[Hroth]

10 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

You might feel differently were you ever to be released on a 'not proven' verdict.

 

 

 

If you knew you were innocent then it would be a terrible verdict.  If you knew you were guilty, then its a better verdict than you deserved.  that sort of person couldn't give a flying f*** for a stain on their character, it would mean that they walked free.  I agree, 'not proven' is unsatisfactory.

 

[Tom Burnham]

4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

Bridge rolls are the bite-sized version of the long rolls.  Totally pointless.

 

Are the long rolls of use for anything other than hot dogs? Not the US version but with a really nice British sausage.

Bridge rolls were commonly sold in bakers in SE London in the 1950s and 1960s.  I never thought about the name at the time, but more recently I've wondered whether it was because they were a more "dainty" roll which could be served (for example with egg and cress filling) at pre-WW2 bridge parties?

[runs as required]

3 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Which is precisely why it is an evil; innocent until proven guilty is the more just proposition, IMHO. 

Can't recall whether the C.S. Parnell Affair got as far as the Courts.

But besides being of the period of CA, it seems relevant to this particular case. 

It put paid to Parnell's legislative answer to the Irish Problem - and led to the best part of a century of Troubles, Partition (and the loss of wonderful Irish railways)

dh

[Tom Burnham]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

If you are modelling a later period than CA, I think the 1930s*, a proportion of PO coal wagons should be from the big "smokeless fuel" producers. From what I can work out, merchants used to order wagon-loads of the stuff and it was popular for 'closed' fires such as some types of stoves and 'back boilers', which I vaguely remember were used in some houses to provide hot water until gas became standard.

 

*Coalite seems to have started as early as 1915.

 

We used Coalite at home c 1960 when smokeless zone regulations were starting to come in.  It looked rather like coke, and was difficult to get started in my experience.  In the 1970s, my parents changed to Homefire which was in larger, hexagonal shapes.

[runs as required]

Just now, Tom Burnham said:

We used Coalite at home c 1960 when smokeless zone regulations were starting to come in.  It looked rather like coke, and was difficult to get started in my experience.  In the 1970s, my parents changed to Homefire which was in larger, hexagonal shapes.

We moved into our great semi derelict pile in late 1976, started with a big hopper fed anthracite boiler,

Then we were introduced to 'Durham Ovoids' smokeless fuel (which sound like an insult thrown  thrown by Vicar - but were more generally ordered by folk as "Cream Eggs").

dh

[St Enodoc]

52 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

You might feel differently were you ever to be released on a 'not proven' verdict.

 

 

Not if I'd done it and got away with it!

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, runs as required said:

Can't recall whether the C.S. Parnell Affair got as far as the Courts.

But besides being of the period of CA, it seems relevant to this particular case. 

It put paid to Parnell's legislative answer to the Irish Problem - and led to the best part of a century of Troubles, Partition (and the loss of wonderful Irish railways)

dh

 

Parnell's involvement as co-respondent in the O'Shea divorce trial in 1890 led to his downfall, not through the decision of the court but through the public evidence of his adultery, which resulted in condemnation of his immorality by the Catholic bishops in Ireland and the Liberal nonconformists in England. Parnell's subsequent refusal to stand down as leader of the Irish National League (he had won a party vote of confidence) resulted in the collapse of the political alliance in favour of Home Rule.

 

The resulting divisions in Irish society are brilliantly illustrated in the Christmas dinner scene in James Joyce's A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man (1914).

[webbcompound]

38 minutes ago, Tom Burnham said:

We used Coalite at home c 1960 when smokeless zone regulations were starting to come in.  It looked rather like coke, and was difficult to get started in my experience.  In the 1970s, my parents changed to Homefire which was in larger, hexagonal shapes.

Not so difficult to start if you had that fearsome beast the Gas Poker. Our stove with back boiler was easy to start with the application of the Gas Poker. As a kid I love the way it looked just like a flaming sword, but parents were surprisingly annoyed if it was waved around once lit.

 

[CKPR]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

I have long held the view that Scotland's greatest gift to the world is the "not proven" verdict.

I've always thought that this basically amounts to " We know you did and you've got away with it this time it but don't do it again".

[drmditch]

34 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Parnell's involvement as co-respondent in the O'Shea divorce trial in 1890 led to his downfall, not through the decision of the court but through the public evidence of his adultery, which resulted in condemnation of his immorality by the Catholic bishops in Ireland and the Liberal nonconformists in England. Parnell's subsequent refusal to stand down as leader of the Irish National League (he had won a party vote of confidence) resulted in the collapse of the political alliance in favour of Home Rule.

 

The resulting divisions in Irish society are brilliantly illustrated in the Christmas dinner scene in James Joyce's A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man (1914).

Which surely makes William Henry O'Shea, with the timing of his divorce (the affair between Kitty and Parnell hardly being a new thing or unknown by those who cared to know) on of the great ***** of Irish history.

(Sorry, couldn't decide on a suitable noun. Wouldn't want to offend anyone of that name and/or descendants of that man. There is too much condemnation in history anyway.)

[Edwardian]

35 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

Not if I'd done it and got away with it!

 

But, then, in England that would be a straight acquittal, so still better for you than the Scottish verdict.

 

4 minutes ago, CKPR said:

I've always thought that this basically amounts to " We know you did and you've got away with it this time it but don't do it again".

 

Forgive me, as I know there are ex-coppers about the place, but this is stereotypically police thinking; you've all done something and the world is simply divided between those we've caught and those we haven't, yet.  That is a dangerous mindset, as it is to judge where you may not judge.

 

You cannot say "I know you did it".  If you cannot satisfy the standard of proof for a criminal conviction, then you know nothing of the sort.  you may think you do, but you don't.  Where the Crown fails to reach that standard of proof in the estimation of the tribunal of fact, the only just verdict is acquittal. 

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, drmditch said:

Which surely makes William Henry O'Shea, with the timing of his divorce (the affair between Kitty and Parnell hardly being a new thing or unknown by those who cared to know) on of the great ***** of Irish history.

(Sorry, couldn't decide on a suitable noun. Wouldn't want to offend anyone of that name and/or descendants of that man. There is too much condemnation in history anyway.)

 

And all the stranger since Parnell had been supporting O'Shea's candidacy for a by-election in the face of opposition from other leading party members and the O'Sheas had already been separated for some time.

[runs as required]

14 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 ...  [Coalite] was popular for 'closed' fires such as some types of stoves and 'back boilers', which I vaguely remember were used in some houses to provide hot water until gas became standard.

Gosh, our 1951 Aga (converted to gas 25 years ago) still does heat all our hot water via its back-boiler 

2

"Wen ah wer'a kid"  my folks bought a gaunt Edwardian house with a monkey puzzle in the front garden high above the canal reservoir threatening to destroy Whaley Bridge last summer - before this year's plague. (reminds me of the old Testament)

 

The 'villa'  had been 'pre-owned' by a family that ran a repertory theatre who'd installed all sorts of extraordinary kit (ex theatrical scenic props most notably calico printing panels set in 3 x ! softwood battens, all 'dark oak' stained, lining the 'lounge' as it was termed and dining room) .

The  kitchen had a fearsome cream coloured boiler with sliding doors that they'd scrounged from a Manchester manufacturer of the post war asbestos/cement prefabs.

I seem to remember it to be coke fired, lit with an above-mentioned gas poker with which I could terrify the poor old family 'rescue' dog.

dh

 

PS

I really must shut the computer and go off to do some real work! It is a beautiful day.

CA is currently some ultra complex 'polyphony' with more than half a dozen themes all running at the same time!

Edited March 27, 2020 by runs as required

[CKPR]

39 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

You cannot say "I know you did it".  If you cannot satisfy the standard of proof for a criminal conviction, then you know nothing of the sort.  you may think you do, but you don't.  Where the Crown fails to reach that standard of proof in the estimation of the tribunal of fact, the only just verdict is acquittal. 

Which makes perfect sense to sense to me as I have oft wondered why, other than historical precedent,  the Scots have the 'not proven' verdict - my perhaps overly glib comment was my best guess as to the justification for it.

[Buhar]

Anyone want to read "Secret Barrister" on the subject of the English /Welsh criminal justice system? I have a copy going free to someone who promises to read it and pass it on. No real point in passing it on in Scotland.  PM me.

Alan 

[Edwardian]

27 minutes ago, CKPR said:

Which makes perfect sense to sense to me as I have oft wondered why, other than historical precedent,  the Scots have the 'not proven' verdict - my perhaps overly glib comment was my best guess as to the justification for it.

 

Yes, and, indeed, I was using your post as a basis for emphasising a point, rather than disagreeing with it.  It is precisely because, as you say, the not proven verdict is taken to mean 'we think you did it but we cannot prove it', that the verdict is so unjust.  If you can't prove that a man did something, you must declare him innocent of it.    

[Edwardian]

2 minutes ago, Buhar said:

Anyone want to read "Secret Barrister" on the subject of the English /Welsh criminal justice system? I have a copy going free to someone who promises to read it and pass it on. No real point in passing it on in Scotland.  PM me.

Alan 

 

I have a copy, but have not had the inclination to read it; I know enough to know that what it is likely to reveal about our "creaking" criminal justice system will be true, appalling and profoundly depressing.

[Talltim]

3 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But if a double Fairlie is one locomotive in Ffestiniog terms, surely any non-double Fairlie is equal to only half a locomotive, so the combination seen is equal to a double-header?

No, a single Fairlie is one loco with one engine. A triple Fairlie is one loco with three engines...