Castle Aching

[Donw]

Chris did say they wouldn't freeze. so 40degf is above freezing.

 

Greenland got its name from how it looked long ago so I find it hard to believe things are so much hotter than it was 1000 years ago.

[Schooner]

I'm not sure the climate cares about the convenience of belief.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperature_record_of_the_last_2,000_years

[BlueLightning]

3 hours ago, Donw said:

Greenland got its name from how it looked long ago so I find it hard to believe things are so much hotter than it was 1000 years ago.

 

Greenland got it's name because "people would be attracted there if it had a favourable name." Nothing to do with how it looked.

Source "The Saga of Erik the Red" which details the life of the man who named it. The Saga describes is as "an icy land" so it wasn't green.

 

Gary

[papagolfjuliet]

11 minutes ago, BlueLightning said:

 

Greenland got it's name because "people would be attracted there if it had a favourable name." Nothing to do with how it looked.

Source "The Saga of Erik the Red" which details the life of the man who named it. The Saga describes is as "an icy land" so it wasn't green.

 

Worth bearing in mind that that saga was written four hundred-odd years after the settlement of Greenland and many years after the rest of the Norse world had lost contact with the settlers. In reality southern Greenland was 'Green' at the time of the colonisation - Vikings tended to name new lands after the things they saw there, hence 'Vinland' because of the vines and 'Soay' meaning 'Sheep'  because of the wild sheep on that island. It was the Little Ice Age which finished them off, just as it finished off the vineyards of medieval Britain. 

 

https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/greenland-vikings-0018286

Edited October 29, 2023 by papagolfjuliet

[papagolfjuliet]

Just as an example of how balmy the northern climate was before the Little Ice Age, there were actual vineyards in Snowdonia. Hence 'Clogwyn y Gwin' - 'The Cliff of Wine' - on the flanks of Snowdon itself.  

[brumtb]

On 28/10/2023 at 12:51, Compound2632 said:

 But by far the largest customer, J.J. Robinson, I have yet to find out anything about.  

According to the 1901 census John James Robinson, born 1859, was a coal, coke and lime merchant with an address of 10 Cavendish Street, Skipton.  He died in 1931 leaving £7713 2s 11d, a substantial sum in 1931 so one would assume he was reasonably successful.

Tony

[Compound2632]

22 minutes ago, brumtb said:

According to the 1901 census John James Robinson, born 1859, was a coal, coke and lime merchant with an address of 10 Cavendish Street, Skipton.  He died in 1931 leaving £7713 2s 11d, a substantial sum in 1931 so one would assume he was reasonably successful.

 

Many thanks for that. He certainly shifted a lot of coal - 1,707 tons in October 1897 - March 1898, 22% of the total coming into Skipton yard. But no lime.

[Compound2632]

... but in 28% of the wagons.

 

So in terms of dead weight hauled, he wasn't good for the Midland's business.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Compound2632

[Schooner]

In other news, I've been playing Shunt the Coal Train* on this version...

...using the best proxies I have available to simulate a train of at least 16 wagons arriving from the Staithe (long cassette). Half of them are bound North on the Main Down, half South on the Main Up. There are a ton of options, but the main choice is whether to receive the train in the Goods Loop or the Branch Platform. I found there were no major issues, and the process took between 10 and 20 minutes depending on method used.

 

If more space is needed at BM, two possible formations come to mind:

A

Which between the pairs of tracks gives c.92mm (scale 23ft) at the buffer stops and c.140mm (scale 35ft) in the middle. Workable.

 

B

Which nets a useful >4ft of siding, but with the reduced utility of access through the goods shed. c.88mm (scale 22ft) between tracks; snug but viable. It also requires stealing some width from the aisle, which would be down to a 26 inch pinch point unless Achingham was shortened a little (easily done, but perhaps not a good trade).

 

There is always option C: How much siding length do we need? Yes.

 

Just throwing stuff about to see if anything sticks :)

 

 

*SCARM's freebie stock allowing. If it helps make some sense of it all, the loco is about Prairie-sized, the rolling stock c.42ft

Edited October 29, 2023 by Schooner
Going too far

[ChrisN]

11 hours ago, Caley Jim said:

40F is around 4.5C. That's T-shirt and shorts weather! We had -16C one night last winter and back around 2010 it was going down to -23C overnight and never went above 0 for days! 

 

Jim 

 

I had a friend who came from near Stornoway.  He turned up one day when it was about 4.0C in his sandals.

Edited October 29, 2023 by ChrisN

[Nearholmer]

Somewhere, buried in the archives of the BBC/OU is a very interesting programme about how a combination of genetics and acclimatisation fit people to cold or hot environments. It stuck in my mind because it involved sending some poor guy from Nigeria to work on a Scottish trawler, and monitoring his physiological responses. What I can’t recall is whether they sent a Scot’s guy to get roasted in the blazing heat. 
 

I once did an ‘outward bound’ type course with a guy who ran fisheries on Lake Victoria and he turned a worrying sort of very dark blue colour when it got really cold. We built a decent fire and he practically sat in it all evening, and then set up his sleeping place in what we all thought was dangerously close to the embers. He was fine next day, thankfully.

 

 

[ChrisN]

4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Somewhere, buried in the archives of the BBC/OU is a very interesting programme about how a combination of genetics and acclimatisation fit people to cold or hot environments. It stuck in my mind because it involved sending some poor guy from Nigeria to work on a Scottish trawler, and monitoring his physiological responses. What I can’t recall is whether they sent a Scot’s guy to get roasted in the blazing heat. 
 

I once did an ‘outward bound’ type course with a guy who ran fisheries on Lake Victoria and he turned a worrying sort of very dark blue colour when it got really cold. We built a decent fire and he practically sat in it all evening, and then set up his sleeping place in what we all thought was dangerously close to the embers. He was fine next day, thankfully.

 

 

 

I watched a program on the training of Marine?/SAS officers out on Dartmoor.  There was a guy from the West Indies who did not make it through, he was sent home, because he could not cope with the cold.

 

I knew a guy from Nigeria whose job is at Waitrose HQ in the freezer department of the stores.  He works inside the freezers.  He seemed to get on fine, thick warm coat though, plus hat and thick gloves.

 

Just checked my dates, it is neither the 26th or 28th March 1895, but the 21st.  Just read the days papers!

[Nearholmer]

8 minutes ago, ChrisN said:

He seemed to get on fine, thick warm coat though, plus hat and thick gloves

Ah, but in the experiment, the participants had to wear the same clothes, and the Scot’s guys were clearing nets and gutting fish with no gloves on …… so the Nigerian guy had to do the same.

[Annie]

3 hours ago, Schooner said:

Which nets a useful >4ft of siding, but with the reduced utility of access through the goods shed. c.88mm (scale 22ft) between tracks; snug but viable. It also requires stealing some width from the aisle, which would be down to a 26 inch pinch point unless Achingham was shortened a little (easily done, but perhaps not a good trade).

 

Just throwing stuff about to see if anything sticks :)

 

Always a bit doubtful about goods yard layouts that are dependent on shunting through a goods shed.

[Schooner]

Agreed @Annie, 'though I wonder if it might make for a usable storage siding - just bump stuff, say vans and/or a certain percentage of sheeted opens, there so they're out of the way at peak marshalling times...?

 

It's uglier operation, but prettier trackwork *shrug*

Edited October 29, 2023 by Schooner

[drduncan]

@Schooner option A for me. But If you are running into the goods loop and running round using the branch platform you seem to end up having to foul the main lines too at the cassette end of BM…

Duncan

[Schooner]

@drduncan There is quite a lot of potential fouling - I'm nervously awaiting the new WTT to make sure that there isn't an issue here! However, Clapham it ain't and there are at least options depending on the traffic situation. Also, in my head at least, all these stations have a pilot (because that's just what it's like in my head, Shunterville), and the layouts have this in mind. BM in particular would benefit from a pilot, or at least a dedicated shunting engine at peak goods handling times, as it negates the time pressure on a loco running round.

 

Not sure if how I would want to run such a station matches with how the WNR do run their station, though!

[Annie]

27 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Agreed @Annie, 'though I wonder if it might make for a usable storage siding - just bump stuff, say vans and/or a certain percentage of sheeted opens, there so they're out of the way at peak marshalling times...?

 

It's uglier operation, but prettier trackwork *shrug*

With Option C it's still not the best even if those two sidings are only used for vans and sheeted opens as you still need to shunt through the goods shed.  With no working 4mm scale shunting horses available you're stuck for any workable options that won't have the goods shed foreman yelling at you.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Annie
can't spell for toffee

[Schooner]

Oh I dunno, needing to marshal 8 reach wagons so you can...er...marshal 8 wagons...what could possibly go wrong?! 🤣

 

No horses, you're right, but a cheeky motorised wagon at the buffers end would keep things flowing and the Foreman non the wiser...?

[Schooner]

D

Does work after all, giving 80mm (scale 20ft) between tracks, and leaving the aisle with a 28" pinch point as it stands.

 

Still not sure I like it or if it's necessary, and I'm very aware that none of this has come from James but as a little design exercise it's been useful, and we may well need more siding length yet.

 

In a bit of context then:

[Annie]

3 minutes ago, Schooner said:

Does work after all, giving 80mm (scale 20ft) between tracks, and leaving the aisle with a 28" pinch point as it stands.

 

Still not sure I like it or if it's necessary, and I'm very aware that none of this has come from James but as a little design exercise it's been useful, and we may well need more siding length yet.

Yes that does look better and is quite workable without breaking any rules.

[Schooner]

Looking better still (I think):

EDITS:

• Scale 30ft minimum between roads - plenty of real yards had less.
• In excess of 12ft/4m useful siding length; 50+ wagons
• Just rounding off the benchwork at the end of the Achingham peninsula takes us back up to 30" aisle, with more easily available if need be.

 

 

Every time I post an image I see it fresh and get a new idea, starting to get annoying!

Edited October 30, 2023 by Schooner

[drduncan]

I’d worry about elbows and indeed belly’s interfering with the siding on the baseboard edge. Original option A still wins for me.

D

[WFPettigrew]

I am not sure that having two diamonds next to each other really rings "authentic" - the railways generally avoided them where they could* because of the complexity of building/maintaining alignments (bit like making model ones?!).  I think the three way point (a la option A) to achieve 3 sidings would be better. If that meant the WNR was faced with shorter sidings than it wanted, it would just buy some extra land. 

 

Neil 

 

* even those lines that had aversions to facing points!

[Nearholmer]

In cramped, low-speed places, particularly termini and yards, all sorts of elaborate p&c work was resorted to, so I think one can over-worry about it.

 

This confection caught my eye recently: