Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

Fascinating.  That's the first picture ever that I've seen of a Great Central American mogul.

 

Here's another https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Great-Central-Railway-Postcard-Baldwin-Mogul-963-Old-Photo/153012357882?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D50546%26meid%3Dc24ca3eed13445369054195023f94d91%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D152994668095%26itm%3D153012357882&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850

[Edwardian]

NO!!! Just NO!!!

 

I know you have drawings. So do I. This is one instance where my offer of "if you have the drawings I'll try and CAD it" does NOT apply!

 

I agree with your sentiments.

 

The Belgians just copied the Caley...

 

And I can't fault this German-built Dutch loco:

Nothing to do with my LBSCR tendencies AT ALL!!!

 

Well, you can see where Madonna got the idea from.

 

Which, strangely, brings us back to the conically inclined Drummond on the South Western!

[Annie]

I like the look of the GCR 8F 'Imminghams', but their history seems to be full of episodes of not being quite good enough and being constantly displaced by better locomotives and being moved onto other work.  When a digital model 'Immingham' became available in GCR lined black I certainly lost no time in getting one, but I find it a difficult locomotive to find a job for on my GCR-GER layout.  Much like the prototype it ends up hauling excursion trains and fish trains, but that's about all.

[Edwardian]

I like the look of the GCR 8F 'Imminghams', but their history seems to be full of episodes of not being quite good enough and being constantly displaced by better locomotives and being moved onto other work.  When a digital model 'Immingham' became available in GCR lined black I certainly lost no time in getting one, but I find it a difficult locomotive to find a job for on my GCR-GER layout.  Much like the prototype it ends up hauling excursion trains and fish trains, but that's about all.

 

I like the GC 4-6-0s, they're very handsome. 

[Annie]

Yes they are James, - very handsome locomotives indeed.

 

Perhaps I should stop building layouts where hauling coal is the major traffic on the line.

[NeilHB]

OK, so, to speak like a person being interviewed on Radio 4, the GN and GC had Baldwins, the MR had two lots, some Baldwins, very much the same as the others, and some Alcos, with tapered boilers, which, I reckon, could be chopped from this slightly later version.

And, on the Warwickshire Railways site, there is a photo of one of these, apparently on a passenger train, at New Street.

The Midland ones were from Baldwin (very un-British like with their bogie tenders) and Schenectady - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midland_Railway_2511_Class

 

The Schenectady examples are rather handsome, and I shall get round to building one, in the distant future in 7mm scale. After all, I’m sure one or two were sold to the nascent North Western Railway during its motive power crisis of 1915...

 

 

Lovely drawing of them courtesy of: https://rlkitterman.deviantart.com/art/Midland-Railway-Schenectady-Mogul-2512-564811154

[Edwardian]

Well, you can see where Madonna got the idea from.

 

Which, strangely, brings us back to the conically inclined Drummond on the South Western!

 

Could they be related?

[Nearholmer]

Schenectady was part of Alco by the time the MR locos were built.

 

With all these conical things protruding all over the shop, we’ll soon be on to ‘sugarloaf’ monuments, which were rivals to pyramids during the folly-building boom.

[Orion]

Yes they are James, - very handsome locomotives indeed.

 

Perhaps I should stop building layouts where hauling coal is the major traffic on the line.

 

The predominant traffic on the GC was coal too!

[Hroth]

The conicals are almost as disturbing as Collet streamlining.....

 

Thought the last two illustrations provided by Mr E are extremly so.

 

 

Ahem!

[RedGemAlchemist]

The conicals are almost as disturbing as Collet streamlining.....

 

Thought the last two illustrations provided by Mr E are extremely so.

Seconded.

[Regularity]

Am I the only person to notice this prototype-for-everything rolling road?

[runs as required]

My dad had a friend with a Jaguar sports car that had a conical pointed horn push; he maintained it reined in his wilder impulses. (Just in case some of you are getting too excited by handsome fish engines)

2

About those Yankee Moguls: I understood the shortfall was due to an unexpectedly rapid expansion of passenger and freight train loadings at the turn of the century.

However the web site artist of the Schenectady red loco gives the reason as engineering workers going on strike for an 8 day week. Was this true of the Midland, GNR and GCR works at Derby Doncaster and Gorton - or a nugget of on-line 'false news'?

dh

[Edwardian]

Still has me in stitches: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge-z5tXeQwk

[RedGemAlchemist]

Am I the only person to notice this prototype-for-everything rolling road?

8AFEF689-5965-4481-BB19-E2518D2E2E9B.jpeg

You mean the Holman locomotive? No, no you didn't. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[runs as required]

Am I the only person to notice this prototype-for-everything rolling road?]

It looked to me like it might be experimenting with galoshes. Can you tell us a little more about what is going on?

[RedGemAlchemist]

It looked to me like it might be experimenting with galoshes. Can you tell us a little more about what is going on?

The Holman locomotive was designed by the Holman Locomotive Speeding Truck Company in... I think 1887? It was basically part of an elaborate scam by said company to swindle the stock market and make a ton of money for locomotives that despite their bluster and elaborate design (which was ridiculed by anyone with even the slightest idea of locomotive mechanics) didn't really have any improvement over and were indeed worse than in terms of performance conventional locomotives. 

 

And yet they managed to build and sell two of them before their scam seemingly fell apart. The one depicted is the first. The second was made 10 years later.

Edited May 8, 2018 by RedGemAlchemist

[Edwardian]

The Holman locomotive was designed by the Holman Locomotive Company in... I think 1887? It was basically part of an elaborate scam on the part of said company to swindle the stock market and make a ton of money for locomotives that despite their bluster and elaborate design (which was ridiculed by anyone with even the slightest idea of locomotive mechanics) didn't really have any improvement over and were indeed worse than in terms of performance conventional locomotives. 

 

And yet they managed to build and sell two of them. The one depicted is the first.

 

Well, if you're going to tell a lie, tell a big one, as Jacob Rees Mogg (or was it Joseph Goebbels?) once remarked.

[Caley Jim]

The elegant lines and the clean outlines of British-designed locomotives do set them apart from practice elsewhere. 

 

Is the native design tradition especially beautiful, or am I merely conditioned to think so?

I fully agree with you, James.

 

Meanwhile here is an elegant 4-6-0

 

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

Schenectady was part of Alco by the time the MR locos were built.

 

The Schenectady engines were all in service before the end of 1899 - quick delivery was the whole point. Alco, I read, was formed by merger in 1901.

 

It's the ten Schenectady engines that have the taper boiler but also make more concessions to Englishness including tenders looking like standard Midland ones - though of only 12'3" wheelbase. They were recycled for the first ten standard Class 4 goods engines of 1917. The Midland's Baldwins do look very like the Great Northern and Great Central ones.

 

It's said, I believe, that American engines were only built to last as long as their boilers. For the Midland's engines, this was a self-fulfilling prophecy as there wasn't enough space between the bar frames for a standard Midland boiler.

 

From an operational point of view, there was the drawback that unlike any other Midland goods engine, the moguls couldn't be turned on a 42' table, although at Brent this was presumably not an issue as they could be turned on the loop line linking the up and down yards.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Compound2632

[RedGemAlchemist]

I fully agree with you, James.

 

Meanwhile here is an elegant 4-6-0

 

 

Jim

I see that and raise you one GER S69,

[runs as required]

Wait Wait Wait!

We'll have no post grouping rebuilding on this thread !

[Compound2632]

Meanwhile here is an elegant 4-6-0

 

McIntosh does seem to have made a better stab at an express passenger 4-6-0 than did Drummond, though he was squarely in the Drummond tradition. Elegant? I'm not convinced. A Dunalastair or a T9 can certainly be described as elegant. That particular evolutionary path had reached a dead-end - the big 4-6-0s look like dinosaurs waiting for the Churchward asteroid to hit. 

[Hroth]

I fully agree with you, James.

 

Meanwhile here is an elegant 4-6-0

 

 

Jim

Elegant but not particulary effective...

[Hroth]

I see that and raise you one GER S69,

IMG_20170302_0047-L.jpg

Thats not an S69, its a Gresley rebuild B12/3.

 

The S69 has a Belpaire firebox and cute pierced valences.

 

 

Now THATS pre-grouping style!

 

Edit because spelin.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Hroth