Dunoon Sidings. A beginners attempt at P4

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

EDIT: Starting fresh (again). See Post 195. Track plan finally decided on, and construction started, after over a year of planning and procrastinating.

 

 

 

 

Some of you may have followed the progress on my old thread, on the OO version of Dunoon. Dunoon Mk6, the new P4 version, is going to be a replacement. The original OO boards for Dunoon have been put in the shed, and will either be torn up or get majorly revitalised at a far later date. I have taken a number of considerations into the design of the new Dunoon.

 

1 - Minimum radius of 110cm. I have managed this on the track plan.

 

2 - Minimum point size of B6. I have a mix of B6 and B7 turnouts, a B6 double-slip, 2 B7 double-slips, and the 3-way turnouts are L6R8, so the left-hand line is #6 and the right-hand line is #8.

 

3 - A minimum of 6 coaches in the main platforms. Platforms 2 and 4 fit 6 coaches, and Platform 3 fits 7. These are coaches and a loco by the way, so I can fit 2 6-coach trains and a 7 coach train. The dock platform will fit a 2 car DMU, or 2 Mk1 coaches. The line extending out from the dock platform fits 4 coaches.

 

 

4 - At least 5 goods sidings. One issue with the original Dunoon is I only had 3 goods-sidings, and 1 of these was only long enough to fit a couple of wagons. In the new one, I have storage capacity for 48 wagons and 4 50' parcel vans, over 6 goods sidings.

 

5 - A more realistic turntable. I have put in a 60' turntable. There is a 70' turntable just up the line at Dunoon Shed (65L), however Dunoon MPD and Dunoon North are not currently going to be modelled. I will put the track plans in for Dunoon North and Dunoon MPD in the next post.

 

 

I have dismantled my A4, which will become 60012 Commonwealth of Australia, in preperation for conversion to P4. I have also temporarily converted my Hawksworth BSK, Stanier 50' parcels van, and a Dapol gunpowder wagon to EM, while I save up for more suitable P4 underframes/bogies. I am also on the lookout for new parts for my L1, which needs desperate attention (New screws, and the old linkage has been broken so I need new linkage) however for now the A4 and rolling stock takes priority. I have started construction of an inspection pit in P4, from the free kit available from scalescenes.com

I plan to build the buildings, convert my existing rolling stock, and then start on track, baseboards etc. This way I will have all available space to work, instead of the layout room being cluttered with loco and wagon parts and building components. One problem with Dunoon Mk1-5 was that I did all the buildings at once, and lost numerous components. A lot of buildings also got damaged as I was constantly editing the trackplan.

 

My next post will include the main Dunoon track plans, as well as my written history of the line. It will be a heavily edited version of the original Dunoon Origin Story as written on the Dunoon Mk1-5 thread.

 

For now, here is a basic track-plan of Dunoon Mk6. All track is C&L Finescale P4 trackwork.

 

Let me know what you think!

[mightbe]

It looks like a solid plan, but I fear it'll take a very long time to build it all and get it working reliably. Have you built turnouts before? If so, were they P4? 

 

If the answer to either of those is no, I'd try a few test runs before committing. P4 can easily become more expensive than 00, and it takes a lot of care. I'd do a really simple conversion to start with--a diesel, in other words--and build a small plank with a turnout or two. That's more or less what I'm doing. 

 

The Scalefour Society is a great resource. Their forums are accessible without membership, and there's a wealth of knowledge contained within. I'm not a member myself (yet/still debating it), but it's a good idea to join. I'll be interested to see your progress.

 

Quentin

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

It looks like a solid plan, but I fear it'll take a very long time to build it all and get it working reliably. Have you built turnouts before? If so, were they P4? 

 

If the answer to either of those is no, I'd try a few test runs before committing. P4 can easily become more expensive than 00, and it takes a lot of care. I'd do a really simple conversion to start with--a diesel, in other words--and build a small plank with a turnout or two. That's more or less what I'm doing. 

 

The Scalefour Society is a great resource. Their forums are accessible without membership, and there's a wealth of knowledge contained within. I'm not a member myself (yet/still debating it), but it's a good idea to join. I'll be interested to see your progress.

 

Quentin

Hi Quentin. In short, I have built 2 turnouts before, however both were using a template and some spare rail, I merely glued the rails on to wooden sleepers and made the frog and point blades myself, so they were not very good. I am currently building a P4 inspection-pit, and I have converted some rolling stock to EM as a half-way point. I am going to make a section of P4 and a section of EM track as soon as I have finished clearing up and finishing my Victorian Railways layout which is currently in my room. I also have diagrams for P4 turnouts, and I will have a go at one of those using Peco Code 75 rail and some spare sleepers from my previous 2 turnouts.

I have seen the Scalefour Society, and I will definitely become a member, however I am a bit tight on cash at the moment having just purchased the last components for a small VR layout which I will finish tomorrow (hopefully).

I will post some photos of the track I make when it's done, and hopefully that will be a better way to show everyone what stage I am at. I am in no way, shape or form a professional, however I have built a few bits of track by hand.

 

Thanks for the suggestions and interest!

Peter

[Andrew P]

A very positive start to Mk 6, good luck and all the best with the NEW BUILD.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

A very positive start to Mk 6, good luck and all the best with the NEW BUILD.

Thanks Andy

If I was able to build layouts anywhere near as fast as you I'd be up to Mk15 at least

I hope to get down to Brunel Hobbies, which is the only shop in Melbourne AFAIK that sell P4 and EM, and I'm planning to buy at least a length of P4 flex-track, and hopefully a replacement underframe for one or two things. 

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Been doing a bit of photoshop in Media at school. While everyone else was doing other stuff, I taught myself how to insert a background into a photo. 

 

Here is the original photo, L1 67777 with an LMS porthole SK coach - 

 

And here is my rubbish attempt at photoshopping a grey background -

 

 

"EDIT" - Ignore the two white vehicles in the background, they are Victorian Railways kits I was working on at the time.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Here are a couple more in B&W

 

Just B&W

 

 

And after changing the contrast and exposure

[Zomboid]

"EDIT" - Ignore the two white vehicles in the background, they are Victorian Railways kits I was working on at the time.

Being more into non-UK stuff personally, I'd like to know more about your Australian exploits...

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Being more into non-UK stuff personally, I'd like to know more about your Australian exploits...

In that case I may start a layout thread on the layout the photos were on (Cudgee Sidings) and use that to document my other Australian modelling as well.

I'll post a link in my signature when it's done.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Being more into non-UK stuff personally, I'd like to know more about your Australian exploits...

Hi.

I have started a thread on my Australian (Victorian Railways and V/LINE) modelling. In particular my V/LINE layout Cudgee sidings.

It is available here - 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/109353-cudgee-sidings-and-other-australian-modelling/

[dhjgreen]

Been doing a bit of photoshop in Media at school. While everyone else was doing other stuff, I taught myself how to insert a background into a photo. 

 

Here is the original photo, L1 67777 with an LMS porthole SK coach - 

12553070_182500778774945_9189209998933382079_n (1).jpg

 

And here is my rubbish attempt at photoshopping a grey background -

Cudgee Sidings 67777 Stormy Background.jpg

 

 

"EDIT" - Ignore the two white vehicles in the background, they are Victorian Railways kits I was working on at the time.

I do not want to interfere with you classwork, but "Magnetic Lasso" in Photoshop should help you to select the area to infill with backscene; called "Fuzzy Select" in the shareware GIMP software.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Purchased the first components for Dunoon Mk6 today. 2 lengths of Flex-Track, and sleepers/chairs for a turnout. I'm using one of the pieces of flex for rail for the turnout (and there will probably be some track left) and the other piece for rolling stock testing. I managed to fully convert a Dapol gunpowder wagon to P4, however it does need a tiny bit more filing to get the wheels rolling perfectly (one of them doesn't roll as much as the other).

Pictures should follow tomorrow!

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Well the first baseboard frame has been built! I have attached the backscene as well, to help line up the main baseboard when I purchase it. The backscene is slightly shorter, so there is overlap with the backscenes. This is simply so the backscene joint is at a different location to the actual board joint, so it makes the join less obvious.\

I will post photos soon!

[Andrew P]

Looking forward to some pics Peter.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Looking forward to some pics Peter.

Been raining ever since I got home from school, so haven't dared to make the 15-20m trip out to the shed!

Sadly also means I haven't been able to do work on framework for the second board... If it's not raining tomorrow then I'll go out and get some pics when I get home from school.

[ikks]

Looking forward to some pics 

 

Been raining ever since I got home from school, so haven't dared to make the 15-20m trip out to the shed!

Sadly also means I haven't been able to do work on framework for the second board... If it's not raining tomorrow then I'll go out and get some pics when I get home from school.

 

Been raining ever since I got home from school, so haven't dared to make the 15-20m trip out to the shed!

Sadly also means I haven't been able to do work on framework for the second board... If it's not raining tomorrow then I'll go out and get some pics when I get home from school.

Move to SA..................it doesn't bloody rain here, most of my dams are dry

Hat, coat!!!!!!!!!! 

 

Rgds...........Mike

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Move to SA..................it doesn't bloody rain here, most of my dams are dry

 

Hat, coat!!!!!!!!!! 

 

Rgds...........Mike

 

I reckon I'll take my chances when it comes to rain vs a water shortage

Its stopped raining, so when I get back from school (HOUSE CROSS COUNTRY TODAY!!!) I'll take some photos.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Here are photos as promised!

 

First of all, some shots of new rolling stock. A Hornby Gresley 1st and a Sleeper coach. I got them for $40 (20 pounds) each.

 

The 1st class coach - 

 

The Sleeper coach - 

 

 

 

Dunoon Mk1-Mk5 - 

 

 

and the framework for Dunoon Mk6 Baseboard 1 - 

 

The framework is 89x18mm

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

I have got an update, but this is significantly more important.

 

It has, sadly, come to my attention that Jock Kerr (Jock67B) has passed away. I didn't know Jock very well, indeed I only knew him through his contributions to both the old Dunoon thread and other layout threads throughout RMWeb. He always had something interesting and useful to say about just about anything, and he was very supportive. He shall be missed by everyone who knew him.

 

R.I.P.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

AND now for the bit I have been working on for weeks.

I have used a number of online references to find the locos allocated to different sheds, specifically those in the 65 and 64 series, and even more specifically those available as kits or R-T-R. Using this information, I have finished the "backstory" to Dunoon. Just a warning - it's 1225 words long!

 

 

October 7, 1891.

 

The railway line opened through to Dunoon by the Scottish Highlands Railway Company. The line was initially single track, with a single platform, a basic station building, and very limited facilities. By 1910, it was clear that better facilities were required. The original station and platform was demolished. The line was kept single track, however the redesign/rebuild was done so that there was the capability to upgrade to double-track at a later date. A 60’ Cowans Sheldon turntable was installed, along with a 2-track engine shed. 6 goods sidings and a parcels depot were added, and total platforms now counted at 4, 1 dock platform, and 3 other normal platforms. The line used standard SHRC rolling stock, such as the Class 1 4-4-2 Atlantic, the Class 6 0-6-2, and the Class 15 0-6-0.

 

The line came under LNER ownership in 1923 as a result of the Grouping, and was duplicated by 1925. All the original SHRC rolling stock was sadly scrapped. The rolling stock now consisted mainly of Robinson J11, J39, J72, D11, A5, B1 designs. It also saw the occasional visit from an O4, Q6 or a B12 With the introduction of the Gresley A1 in 1922, the A1 became the main passenger hauling design on the route. By 1930 the line was run by a mix of A1, A3, A5, B1, B12, D11, D16, K3, J39, O4 and Q6 class locos, using C12, J50, and J72 locos for shunters, the J50 and J72 mainly being used to transfer coal from the Dunoon Mines.

 

By the time it was merged into the BR, rolling stock consisted of the following –

 

A1 (Gresley and Thompson), A2 (/1, /2 and /3), A3, A4, A5, B1, B12,  C12, D11, D16, J35, J39, J50, J72, K3,  N2, O4, Q6, V1, V2 and V3 locomotives. These were all rostered for Dunoon workings over a 5 week period.

 

By 1952, everything had been standardised. Locos run on the line were A1, A2, A3, A4, C12, B1, B12, D11, D16, J35, J39, J50, J72, K3, V2, V3 and occasionally W1 60700.

 

 

The local suburban passenger service was a 2 (or 3) car DMU, but often replaced by a B, V or D type loco (B1, B12, V3, D11 or D16) with between 2 and 4 coaches, which were either BR Mk1 Suburbans, Gresley Suburbans or Thompson Suburbans. The coaches were a mix of Maroon and Crimson. This ran 5 times a day, leaving Dunoon at 07:00, 10:00, 13:00, 16:00 and 19:00. Often, the 10:00 and 16:00 services were DMU hauled, with the rest being loco-hauled.

 

 

The overnight Sleeper train, which ran Kings-Cross – Glasgow – Dunoon and then return the following night, ran Saturday night, Monday, Wednesday and Friday. This service was always, without fail, an A4, hauling either Gresley Sleepers, or BR Mk1 sleepers. The service was 9 coaches, with a Motorail coach at one end. At Dunoon, the yard pilot (one of the C12’s) would remove the Motorail coach, and shunt it into the dock platform for offloading. The A4 would go to Dunoon Shed, 65L, and return later in the day ready for the return trip to KX which left at 17:00

 

 

The passenger service ran 4 times a day, arriving in Dunoon at 08:00, 12:00, 16:00 and 20:00. It left back to Glasgow an hour later. This service was usually an A1, 2 or 3, but occasionally got replaced with a V2 or a B1. Even more rarely, an A4 was substituted.

 

 

Once a day, a service from Kings Cross would arrive. It arrived in Dunoon at 9:00, and left at 18:00. It was run by a KX A4 but occasionally got swapped out for another LNER Pacific at random at Glasgow. What would often happen, was an A4 would arrive, and one of the Dunoon A1’s or A3’s would take the service out, the A4 would be left “on shed” overnight, and take the train back the next day.

 

 

The freight service ran three times a day, arriving at 7:30 and leaving at 10:00, then arriving at 13:30, leaving at 16:00, and finally arriving at 19:00 and leaving at 22:00. It was usually a V2, V3, B1, B12, or K3 but occasionally ran with an A1/A2/A3. The service from Dunoon Mines to Dunoon was run by a tank loco, either a J50, J72 or an NCB J94. This ran 4-5 times a day, however did vary. The wagons were left in Dunoon Yard, or shunted onto the freight train if it had already arrived. One train a day left the wagons in a siding for the locals. This service wasn’t timetabled, and consistently ran at different times. A parcels service also ran twice a day, arriving at 08:00 and leaving at 10:30, and then arriving at 14:00 and leaving at 16:30.

 

 

Whenever a loco larger than a B12 arrived in Dunoon, it would back off its train, and head to Dunoon Shed, 65L. There, it would be turned, watered, coaled, and either sent back to Dunoon, or put “on shed” to await its next duty. It wasn’t uncommon to see an A4 in Dunoon Shed, due to the tactics used in sending an A1 or A3 back instead of an A4. Along with the other locos, there was always an interesting variety of locos. Occasionally, the two NCB Sentinel diesel shunters turned up for maintenance – they would arrive, go into the diesel-maintenance-depot, stay there for a day or two, and then return to the Dunoon Mines.

 

When the diesels were introduced, a number of services got replaced by diesels. Often it was at random. The diesel’s that replaced them were just about every type you could get – all the Type 2’s, most of the Type 3’s, Type 4’s, even the Deltics visited. As a result, there was never a lack of interest. Class 33’s occasionally came from the Southern Region, along with the Warships from the Western Region, and even occasionally a Western!

 

 

By 1968 all the services had been replaced by diesels, with the exception of the NCB train which was still hauled by the NCB J94’s. The diesels used were Classes 17, 24, 25, 26, 27, 40, 44, 45, 47 and 55. Dunoon’s shunters were now Class 03, 05, 07, 08 and 14. Occasionally locos from other regions (Southern, Midland, Western) visited, such as Warships, Westerns CL33’s, etc.

 

 

By 1992, the line wasn’t generating revenue. There were 2 passenger services to/from Glasgow a day. The suburban service had stopped. A single freight train a day connected with the NCB train, now hauled by two Sentinel’s. The line closed on the 2/4/1993.

 

 

In 2002, the Dunoon Railway Preservation Society, or DRPS, had started up. They re-opened the line from Dunoon to the outskirts of Dunoon, obtained a Class 24, a J94 and a Class 108 DMU. They also gained a set of BR Mk1 Suburban coaches. With this, they re-opened the line. They ran two passenger trains a day, to take people to and from Dunoon’s centre to the outer “suburbs”. By 2015, the line had been re-opened to Glasgow. The DRPS obtained more rolling stock, a Black 5, a B1, and even Tornado was loaned to the line for a period of time. As of 2016, the DRPS are heading a project to rebuild an LNER A2/1 for use on the line. 

 

 

 

 

I have also obtained a second Gresley Sleeper coach, this time in Maroon, to add to the Sleeper train. It's still on OO scale, but that will change soon!

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Recently I've been using a very useful website, brdatabase.info to find out info on various different BR loco types (including pre-nationalisation and pre-grouping types).

Tomorrow (and the next few days) I'm going to compile a list of all the locos stationed at the following depots between 1955 and 1961

64A

64B

65A

65B

 

I had started, but I'd named them incorrectly, so I have to start again.

 

I know one thing though - by 1961, 65A Eastfield was allocated 37 class 21s! 

Haymarket (64B) had lots of LNER Pacifics, and 65B St Rollox had a bazillion LMS and CR loco types!

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

As I haven't got enough stuff to warrant a new thread, here are some photos of a somewhat significant part (locos!!) of a layout I'm planning! These are all photos of the same loco - a Dapol GWR class 45xx Large Prairie, in weathered condition as 4566.

And no, Dunoon will not be replaced by this! This is merely to allow me to model a couple of eras in a couple of scales. There might also be a bit of O scale!

 

I currently have a Dapol B set on order from Hattons to go with it, along with scale knuckle couplers and some detail parts for Cudgee Sidings

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

I have a question for all the experienced model makers out there, in particular those who build locomotive kits.

 

I am going to get into loco kit building (I am buying an old MPD O scale kit of a MR Johnson 1F as I figure O will be easier to start in than OO), however I am not sure what sort of soldering iron I should use. I currently have a small one (no idea what type, i think it might be a 25W one or whatever that means), however I figure I will need something slightly more sophisticated for loco kit building.

 

What sort of iron should I get, and also what type of solder/flux? It currently takes ages to get my current iron/flux/solder to work, I have to hold the iron down for 30 seconds before the solder starts to flow, and often the solder, if I try to reheat it, sticks to the iron and stops me from moving the iron, instead of melting.

 

Thanks!

[DougN]

Peter, the best iron I know of is the Dicksmith temperature controlled. It is 40w but a small pencil type. Unfortunately since DS has changed they are hard to find. How ever Jaycar have some equivalent models such as below.

 

http://www.jaycar.com.au/Tools-%26-Soldering/Soldering/Stations/48W-Temperature-Controlled-Soldering-Station/p/TS1564

 

There are 2 depending on your budget at 50 and 100 dollars.

 

Solder 70 and 140 degree is available from Brunel models. Electrical solder 60/40 go for the thinnest diameter you can find. I purchased a 250g reel of 1.5mm dia. So long ago I can't remember (20yrs?) but the trick to all solder is to use as little as possible.

 

Flux, I generally use red label from Brunel. But get a spare bottle and put in only 15mm in the bottom and blue tack the bottle to the work bench. This makes it more difficult to knock over and if you do it is only a small amount lost.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Peter, the best iron I know of is the Dicksmith temperature controlled. It is 40w but a small pencil type. Unfortunately since DS has changed they are hard to find. How ever Jaycar have some equivalent models such as below.

 

http://www.jaycar.com.au/Tools-%26-Soldering/Soldering/Stations/48W-Temperature-Controlled-Soldering-Station/p/TS1564

 

There are 2 depending on your budget at 50 and 100 dollars.

 

Solder 70 and 140 degree is available from Brunel models. Electrical solder 60/40 go for the thinnest diameter you can find. I purchased a 250g reel of 1.5mm dia. So long ago I can't remember (20yrs?) but the trick to all solder is to use as little as possible.

 

Flux, I generally use red label from Brunel. But get a spare bottle and put in only 15mm in the bottom and blue tack the bottle to the work bench. This makes it more difficult to knock over and if you do it is only a small amount lost.

Thanks.

 

I have my birthday coming up soon (June 18) so I'll see if I can get a new soldering iron then, save me a bit of money! I'll get some of the solder and flux when I'm at Brunel next (very soon, I need some more P4 track and a turnout kit!).

 

Good idea about the flux, I'll do that.