Dunoon Sidings. A beginners attempt at P4

[Andrew P]

I'm looking forward to seeing the pics of the Point Building Peter, I did it in OO for Bitton and really enjoyed it, I may well build my own for my O Gauge project.

 

All the best, and keep up the good work.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

I'm looking forward to seeing the pics of the Point Building Peter, I did it in OO for Bitton and really enjoyed it, I may well build my own for my O Gauge project.

 

All the best, and keep up the good work.

Thanks!

 

I have already built one, a B6, but it's not complete yet (the sleepers with slide-chairs didn't stick properly, and the tiebar isn't done yet. I'm not really happy with it though.

I'll put some photos up later for me to compare with later builds!

 

Peter

[mightbe]

Re: "slide chairs don't stick"

 

They won't. Simple. Even if you somehow affix them to the sides of the stock rails with superglue, epoxy, younameit--it won't be particularly strong and I wouldn't trust them (or any other timbers) to stay firmly in place. In P4 this is absolutely critical. 

 

Unless you absolutely must, don't build functional-chaired pointwork 'loose'. Pointwork is delicate, and you should really be supporting it at all times. In-situ construction is perfectly fine most of the time (glue the templates to the baseboard and build directly on top), but another good alternative is to glue the template to a piece of ply, built it, and glue the whole thing onto the layout.. I.e., use ply the same thickness as your roadbed. Both of these methods mitigate the risk of damage and are very accurate.

 

Quentin

[DougN]

Oh, Peter, I should also mention that a low melt solder at 70 degree can be useful. No need to worry about the soldering iron running at 150 Degrees with the 70 degree you will find it flows like water with the red label but is different as the solder is difficult to "carry" to the workpiece. Have you thought of Joining BRMA as if you did I could show you at one of the meetings. Also there is a exhibition over in Glen Waverley this coming week end where they usually have people demonstrating white metal soldering and brass soldering.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Oh, Peter, I should also mention that a low melt solder at 70 degree can be useful. No need to worry about the soldering iron running at 150 Degrees with the 70 degree you will find it flows like water with the red label but is different as the solder is difficult to "carry" to the workpiece. Have you thought of Joining BRMA as if you did I could show you at one of the meetings. Also there is a exhibition over in Glen Waverley this coming week end where they usually have people demonstrating white metal soldering and brass soldering.

Yeah, I had done a bit of reading on Brunel's site and read about how 70 degree solder is better for whitemetal. I'll end up getting a collection of different solders and fluxes, probably the 70, 140 and maybe the 2?? degree solder for brass. As for the fluxes Brunel reccomend the No.1 flux for low-melt and whitemetal; and the No.2 flux for brass, nickel silver etc.

 

I'm definitely planning on joining BRMA and I'm going to the Waverley exhibition on Sunday, cause I'm  going on the SRHC tour to Echuca on Saturday. There's also a general modelling expo at Sandown Park which I'm going to on Monday.

 

Got a train filled weekend - going to Puffing Billy on Friday, SRHC tour with B74 and P22 on Saturday, the Waverley expo on Sunday, and the Sandown expo on Monday!!

 

Peter

[DougN]

Can I suggest you only go for the type 1 flux (red label) and the 2 lower temperature solders. The 240degree is the same as standard 60/40 solder. Generally I have been using a lot of the 140 degree (reminds me I need more) on the brass. The 70degree only gets used on white metal. and Whitemetal/brass joints. I have never found the need for the more aggressive type 2 flux. 

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Can I suggest you only go for the type 1 flux (red label) and the 2 lower temperature solders. The 240degree is the same as standard 60/40 solder. Generally I have been using a lot of the 140 degree (reminds me I need more) on the brass. The 70degree only gets used on white metal. and Whitemetal/brass joints. I have never found the need for the more aggressive type 2 flux. 

Alright, I'll do that. Thanks! 

[TonyMay]

Some of you may have followed the progress on my old thread, on the OO version of Dunoon. Dunoon Mk6, the new P4 version, is going to be a replacement. The original OO boards for Dunoon have been put in the shed, and will either be torn up or get majorly revitalised at a far later date. I have taken a number of considerations into the design of the new Dunoon.

 

1 - Minimum radius of 110cm. I have managed this on the track plan.

 

2 - Minimum point size of B6. I have a mix of B6 and B7 turnouts, a B6 double-slip, 2 B7 double-slips, and the 3-way turnouts are L6R8, so the left-hand line is #6 and the right-hand line is #8.

 

3 - A minimum of 6 coaches in the main platforms. Platforms 2 and 4 fit 6 coaches, and Platform 3 fits 7. These are coaches and a loco by the way, so I can fit 2 6-coach trains and a 7 coach train. The dock platform will fit a 2 car DMU, or 2 Mk1 coaches. The line extending out from the dock platform fits 4 coaches.

 

 

4 - At least 5 goods sidings. One issue with the original Dunoon is I only had 3 goods-sidings, and 1 of these was only long enough to fit a couple of wagons. In the new one, I have storage capacity for 48 wagons and 4 50' parcel vans, over 6 goods sidings.

 

5 - A more realistic turntable. I have put in a 60' turntable. There is a 70' turntable just up the line at Dunoon Shed (65L), however Dunoon MPD and Dunoon North are not currently going to be modelled. I will put the track plans in for Dunoon North and Dunoon MPD in the next post.

 

 

I have dismantled my A4, which will become 60012 Commonwealth of Australia, in preperation for conversion to P4. I have also temporarily converted my Hawksworth BSK, Stanier 50' parcels van, and a Dapol gunpowder wagon to EM, while I save up for more suitable P4 underframes/bogies. I am also on the lookout for new parts for my L1, which needs desperate attention (New screws, and the old linkage has been broken so I need new linkage) however for now the A4 and rolling stock takes priority. I have started construction of an inspection pit in P4, from the free kit available from scalescenes.com 

I plan to build the buildings, convert my existing rolling stock, and then start on track, baseboards etc. This way I will have all available space to work, instead of the layout room being cluttered with loco and wagon parts and building components. One problem with Dunoon Mk1-5 was that I did all the buildings at once, and lost numerous components. A lot of buildings also got damaged as I was constantly editing the trackplan. 

 

My next post will include the main Dunoon track plans, as well as my written history of the line. It will be a heavily edited version of the original Dunoon Origin Story as written on the Dunoon Mk1-5 thread.

 

For now, here is a basic track-plan of Dunoon Mk6. All track is C&L Finescale P4 trackwork.

Dunoon (P4) Redesign.jpg

 

Let me know what you think!

 

Well it's not a very P4 plan.  Let me explain:  Railway modelling is the art of compromising.  OO compromises *a lot*, whereas P4 compromises (at least on trackwork) very little.  But that means on an OO plan you can have other compromises, usually in the terms of compression, and it doesn't look out of place.  Your original plan seems to be a classic "try-to-fit-as-much-trackwork-onto-the-board-as-possible" plan.  You have short sidings, and lots of lines running parallel with the edge of the board.  It's a model railway but it's not a model of a railway.  But that's perfectly OK in OO, where you can buy RTR track.

 

But modellers adopt Finescale, due to wanting a challenge, but also often because they're unhappy with RTR compromises.  So for P4 it's quality over quantity.  You'd typically have a lot less track, with longer loops, longer sidings, fewer but higher quality kitbuilt stock, etc.

 

Finally, EM gauge is often better than P4 especially for steam-era layouts.  Outside cylindered locos have to have overscale motion; otherwise it won't function.  EM gives you a little more room to fit that in, and a few other compromises as well.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Well it's not a very P4 plan.  Let me explain:  Railway modelling is the art of compromising.  OO compromises *a lot*, whereas P4 compromises (at least on trackwork) very little.  But that means on an OO plan you can have other compromises, usually in the terms of compression, and it doesn't look out of place.  Your original plan seems to be a classic "try-to-fit-as-much-trackwork-onto-the-board-as-possible" plan.  You have short sidings, and lots of lines running parallel with the edge of the board.  It's a model railway but it's not a model of a railway.  But that's perfectly OK in OO, where you can buy RTR track.

 

But modellers adopt Finescale, due to wanting a challenge, but also often because they're unhappy with RTR compromises.  So for P4 it's quality over quantity.  You'd typically have a lot less track, with longer loops, longer sidings, fewer but higher quality kitbuilt stock, etc.

 

Finally, EM gauge is often better than P4 especially for steam-era layouts.  Outside cylindered locos have to have overscale motion; otherwise it won't function.  EM gives you a little more room to fit that in, and a few other compromises as well.

That's very true about the trackplan. Recently I have been contemplating a few track plan changes, including removing the turntable in order to have longer sidings at the "north" end of the yard (the South being the end of the line). 

 

As for P4, for me, I prefer to have the compromises such as slightly overscale motion and get the perfectly accurate track.. On most locos and conversions which I've seen there haven't been problems, except the platform seems a bit further back than usual. 

 

I'll make some track plan changes over the next few days and post them here for clarification.\

 

Regards,

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Nothing happened on Dunoon over the long weekend, as have spent the entire time either out (friday - sunday afternoon) or building my new O scale kit (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112039-building-a-motive-power-developements-o-scale-johnson-class-1f/?p=2336620) from yesterday (sunday) afternoon to now.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Well I finally have some progress to report on Dunoon Mk7 (I know Mk6 was only designed a month or so ago!!)

 

Here is the trackplan. The diamond-crossing is actually a double-slip. All turnouts are B8, except for one C8 (No prizes for spotting which!). The minimum radius (at the end of the yard) is 1200mm, or a scale 300'. I would have liked to have closer to 500' but space restrictions mean I can't.

 

Dunoon North and the MPD (Shed 65L Dunoon Shed) trackplans will be added soon, and I will decide on the Dunoon Colliery track plan later.

 

Let me know what you think!

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Well having gone back and looked at the original plan for Dunoon North and Shed 65L, I have decided to leave it for now, and head off for the night. Templot is brilliant, but sometimes I get halfway through a plan, take a break, but when I go back I lack the original motivation to get it done.

 

Should have more progress to report tomorrow night.

 

Peter

[mightbe]

A definite improvement!

 

Right now everything looks a bit straight and trainset-like. I would still advise a bit of 'trimming', just to add a bit more spaciousness. Termini tended to be sprawling, unseemly affairs (outside heavily urbanized areas). To which end, I might suggest removing the small platform at the bottom and using the space to put some real estate on either side of the railway property. You might be able to put the platforms in at an angle as well, or a sinuous curve into the throat, either of which would help solve the problem of track being predominantly parallel (not to mention close) to the baseboard edge.

 

Quentin

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

A definite improvement!

 

Right now everything looks a bit straight and trainset-like. I would still advise a bit of 'trimming', just to add a bit more spaciousness. Termini tended to be sprawling, unseemly affairs (outside heavily urbanized areas). To which end, I might suggest removing the small platform at the bottom and using the space to put some real estate on either side of the railway property. You might be able to put the platforms in at an angle as well, or a sinuous curve into the throat, either of which would help solve the problem of track being predominantly parallel (not to mention close) to the baseboard edge.

 

Quentin

Thanks!

 

One of the things which I will do, but am a bit too lazy to do on Templot, is put the whole layout on a slight angle on the boards. I first saw this in a 1980s Lima catalogue which showed how to build a basic (like really really basic) layout, and suggested putting it on an angle. As I'm still figuring everything with Templot out, I'm not yet going to do that (for me shifting the entire trackplan down when I started too high was a pain!)

 

Good thought on the throat, I'll have a play around on Anyrail (much much easier to use!) and see what  I get.

 

Peter

[martin_wynne]

As I'm still figuring everything with Templot out, I'm not yet going to do that (for me shifting the entire trackplan down when I started too high was a pain!)

 

Hi Peter,

 

To shift the whole plan in Templot press the Back-Slash key, and drag the trackplan around.

 

To rotate the whole pan to an angle, press the Forward-Slash key and drag it.

 

These are group operations, so if you haven't selected a group of templates, Templot will ask you if you want to move all of the them, which you do:

 

 

These functions are also on SHIFT+CTRL+F7 and SHIFT+CTRL+F8. Don't forget to print the chart:

 

 

You can print this chart from the help > print F key chart menu item.

 

Martin.

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Hi Peter,

 

To shift the whole plan in Templot press the Back-Slash key, and drag the trackplan around.

 

To rotate the whole pan to an angle, press the Forward-Slash key and drag it.

 

These are group operations, so if you haven't selected a group of templates, Templot will ask you if you want to move all of the them, which you do:

 

select_all.png

 

These functions are also on SHIFT+CTRL+F7 and SHIFT+CTRL+F8. Don't forget to print the chart:

 

f_keys.png

 

You can print this chart from the help > print F key chart menu item.

 

Martin.

Thanks Martin!

 

And thanks for developing Templot as well! Without it I certainly wouldn't have even considered going over to P4! 

 

Regards,

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Well my birthday today has produced two lovely new locos.

 

A Bachmann model of 60012 Commonwealth of Australia in BR Blue (Limited Edition No.425, missing original box as came in a set of 3). Sadly not DCC but will have a new Hornby chassis put under it (or a kitbuilt chassis if anyone can recommend a good one.)

And as something to remind me of my trip to Europe last year (and upcoming one at the end of this year!!) a Hornby model of the Duchess of Hamilton. The gloss finish on this model is REALLY nice!

 

And here are photos - 

(Reviews of both models to follow!)

 

First of all a full fleet shot. None of the locos are on P4 but I also have an L1 and A4 (Hornby Railroad) waiting for P4 wheelsets which aren't shown.

Left to Right - 

Hornby Double-Tender Bittern 60019 in BR Green Late Crest (Not mine)

Bachmann Commonwealth of Australia 60012 in BR Blue

Hornby Duchess of Hamilton 6229 in LMS Crimson and Gold

Hornby class J15 65474 in BR Black Early Emblem (Not mine)

Hornby class J83 (Yet to be numbered)

Hornby 0F Pug 56025 BR Black Smokey Joe

Hornby 0F Pug 56032 BR Black no emblem/crest

Bachmann class 03 D2383 in BR Green Late Crest weathered

 

 

Commonwealth of Australia - 

 

Duchess of Hamilton - 

 

Bittern; Commonwealth of Australia; Duchess of Hamilton - 

 

Commonwealth of Australia and Duchess of Hamilton - 

 

 

I put both A4's and Duchess in front of what will become the London-Dunoon sleeper train (not all at once of course!) so images will follow shortly.

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Purchased a BR Mk1 TSO in BR Maroon the other day. Originally thought it was a SO, clearly I didn't look properly! A closer look reveals something interesting. According to the May 2015 Model Rail issue (in the article Masterclass: Mk1 Coaches), it turns out that only 207 BR Mk1 SO coaches were made. Why is this relevant? Because 653 TSO coaches were made! Mine is one of the fourth batches (Coach numbers 4488-4636), being coach E 4558.

All the coach combinations I have seen are "SO". I assume, that this also means TSO depending on the number? Given there are over 3 times the number of TSO vs SO coaches, I assume this is correct. 

 

Also an order from Hattons is pending waiting for one thing.

In the Crimson and Cream era, would a BR Mk1 CK be used more often, or a Mk1 SK (according to the magazine 2164 Mk1 SK coaches were built, but only 1266 CK coaches were built)

I assume the SK (given the rough 2 CK to 3 SK ratio) but can anyone confirm this? 

 

Not much progress on Dunoon. Am planning to buy at least some legs and bolts (if not also baseboards and frames) on the weekend to build a couple more baseboards.

 

Thanks!

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

I have made a few purchases this week, including a BR Mk1 SO, a TSO, a 7 plank wagon and a 6 plank wagon. 

Here is what I have for Dunoon so far

Hornby LMS Duchess 6229 "Duchess of Hamilton" - LMS Crimson

Hornby LNER/BR A4 60??? "???" - RailRoad, under reconstruction, yet to be named/numbered/painted

Bachmann LNER/BR A4 60012 "Commonwealth of Australia - BR Blue

Hornby L1 67777 - Under reconstruction

Hornby Mk1 SO M4473 - Maroon (P4)

Hornby Mk1 TSO E4458 - Maroon (P4)

Hornby Gresley FK E11018E - Crimson and Cream (P4)

Hornby Gresley Sleeper E1210 - Crimson and Cream (P4)

Hornby Gresley Sleeper E1268 - Maroon (P4)

Hornby Hawksworth BFK W1773 - Crimson and Cream (P4)

Bachmann Stanier BG M30968 - Crimson and Cream (P4)

Dapol Gunpowder Wagon "Chance & Hunt Ltd, No.171" - weathered Bauxite and Black (P4)

Bachmann BR 20T Brake Van B950358 - Bauxite (P4)

Hornby 7 Plank Wagon "Foster & Co, No.17" - Red (Under conversion)

Hornby 6 Plank Wagon "J. Hackett & Co, No.410" - Grey (Under Conversion)

 

None of the locos are on P4 yet :/ but I WILL change that soon!!!

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Well thanks to the currently low (0.50 pounds to aud as opposed to 0.45-0.40 it has been over the last while according to dad), an order has been placed to Hattons for - 

1 Bachmann FO

1 Bachmann RMB

2 Hornby CK

2 Hornby BSK 

 

These will all go in a consist with my SO and TSO. The consists I'm thinking of (subject to realism) are - 

BSK-CK-FO-RMB-CK-TSO-SO-BSK

BSK-CK-CK-FO-RMB-TSO-SO-BSK

I may also be getting a BG on Sunday (and maybe a Crimson and Cream CK or BSK to start my crimson/cream rake)

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Well I happen to know I'm getting an SK in Maroon for my party today (got a train-filled day, going up to a tourist railway for the day).

One of my friends forgot to get my present, and we both went to the hobby shop yesterday so he pretty much went "stuff it" and let me choose

And I think I'm getting a BG from another friend, but will have to see.

 

I have decided on a number for the RMB when it arrives - Sc1833

I found a photo on Flickr, as I wanted a Scottish Region coach, so, google is my friend, scrolled through "BR Mk1 RMB" images until I found this one - https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt42/8106418375/in/photostream/

 

I'm also starting a small P4 shelf diorama, to display rolling stock on (and if im bored run an 03 and wagon back and forth!)

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Well I haven't been posting much, but have some news.

 

The first two baseboards are complete, but don't have backscenes and the legs need bolts before I can fit them. I have almost finished the shelf diorama, and have taken progress shots throughout the construction but need to transfer them over from my phone. I'm just about to go out to put grass on, so will post photos of the build when I get back. I may also build the third baseboard (I have framework for it) which will mean the main Dunoon station will have all the baseboards it needs. Hopefully (with the exception of water) the diorama will be finished by the end of tomorrow.

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Here are (just briefly) a couple of dodgy photos taken on my phone of 60019 Bittern with a train. These are all the coaches I have (excluding 6 on order from Hattons) minus the Gresley FK and the Hawksworth BSK (BTK)

 

^^Please ignore the background, I have nowhere else with decent lighting for photographs (YET!!)

 

 

^^ Very blurry one to show the consist (didnt work but putting it here to show the length)

 

The consist is - J

 

BG* - SO* - TSO* - SK* - SLF^ - SLF^ - BG"

 

* denotes a Mk1 

^ denotes a Gresley

" denotes a Stanier Period III

 

When my coaches arrive from Hattons I will be able to make up a few consists, ranging from 3 car to 10 car, to be pulled by the J15s, J83 or A4s;  or even Duchess until I get some Hornby Staniers in appropriate livery to go with her.

 

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

And here are some photos of all the rolling stock for Dunoon excluding a J83 which has gone AWOL

 

L-R 

 

Wagons - 

Bachmann 20T brake van (need a replacement as most handrails and other detail parts have long since broken off)

Hornby 5 plank wagon

Hornby 7 plank wagon

Dapol gunpowder wagon

 

Coaches -

Stanier 50' Period III parcels van

Hawksworth BSK (BTK)

Gresley Sleeper in Maroon

Gresley Sleeper in C/C

Gresley FK in C/C

Mk1 TSO

Mk1 SO

Mk1 SK

Mk1 BG

 

DMU/DPU - 

Heljan Class 128 in Royal Mail Red (yes I know it's technically wrong but I love this livery so Rule 1 is being implemented for once)

Bachmann Class 108 minus bogies (awaiting P4 wheelsets)

Bachmann Class 03

Hornby Smokey Joe

Hornby Smokey Joe

Hornby J15

Bachmann A4 Commonwealth of Australia

Hornby A4 Bittern (the second tender will be removed for operation on Dunoon as is not prototypically accurate

Hornby Duchess of Hamilton (only to be run on special occasions!!!)

 

 

 

 

So that's it. Now for a few shots of the boards built for Dunoon and the railway room (top part of the shed) 

 

 

 

Some new shots of Cudgee Sidings will appear on the appropriate thread soon. And I really must get around to finishing that 0 scale MR 0F...

 

Peter

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

I have been thinking a lot about Dunoon recently and have decided one thing - 

Every building, coach and locomotive (where applicable) are going to be lit. I have decided this, as I have been visualising what it would be like at night, in the dark with only station lamps, building lights and locomotive/coach lights to light up the area. This is one thing I did on previous Dunoon, but not as much as I would like to do on the new one. What I did on the old Dunoon, is in the evening once it was dark I would switch on the layout lights and turn off the room lights. I can't find any photos of this (there may be one or two on original Dunoon forum?) however for me it really stood out. So I would like to do the same thing, so that should be fun!

 

I hope to do more planning work over the next few days although am stuck on RMWeb reading through forums!

 

Peter