marco demarco Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 I know... I know. Why did I buy a Hornby 423 VEP.? I bought it a couple of years ago before I'd heard of any issues with it, and long before I started to build my permanent layout, so only now am I realising I should've steered clear. Anyway... I'm stuck with it and determined to get it running well. My layout is, by a long way, unfinished, so I'm pretty much in a state of testing with a Roco Z21 system on a separate board connected as the programming track. I have a Dapol class 73 [i know!] with a chip installed by Hattons which ran well straight out the box. I've successfully fitted a Bachmann 21 pin into a 411 CEP and an 8 pin into a Bachmann class 25. Brilliant, I thought, this DC-DCC conversion lark is a cinch! How wrong was I? My main issue is that I have recently attempted to instal a decoder chip into my Hornby 423 VEP. It runs very well on DC [bar a couple of niggly derailment issues that are well documented] so thought it would be straightforward to instal a chip. First attempt was a Hornby R8249. This has an 8 pin plug which connects directly into the roof of the VEP. I laid it on the programming track and tried to read the chip which it recognised as no.3, and at the same time it immediately accelerated, kamikaze style, and would've crashed off the board had I not quickly grabbed it. Each time I reattempted to get the Z21 to recognise the decoder, the same thing happened. Eventually a puff of smoke indicated the demise of the chip. Gutted! I put this down to a dodgy chip and vowed never to buy an R8249 again. Second attempt was a Bachmann 36-555 8 pin Having thought it was a decoder issue I was hopeful that this would instal with no issues. First of all, with the chip installed correctly oriented, attempting to read the chip would cause the VEP to lurch once and then remain lifeless, and the Z21 would have to be reset [the blue light having turned green]. Rotating the chip 180 degrees [the wrong way!] would result in the chip at least being recognised, but the motor would emit a high pitch whine/buzzing sound, travel at max speed [albeit in the correct direction] even with minimum throttle, but just make an even worse, horrific, whiney noise and remain stationary when direction was changed and throttle applied. I replaced the 36-555 with an identical chip that I'd previously installed into my class 25 and it behaved exactly the same way, which leads me to believe there is a major wiring issue with the 423 VEP. I removed the chip all together, installed it back into the class 25, which again worked like a dream, thankfully, so the chip is certainly not the issue. I reinstalled the blanking plate on the VEP and it still runs really smoothly on the DC layout. I am completely stumped as to what the problem is with this model and wonder if there is anyone out there who has had similar experience with it, or may be able to suggest a solution. marco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 Sounds to me like there is a small short in the Hornby wiring from the decoder socket or on the PCB itself. Very likely it is the socket, with possibly a small bridge of solder between connections somewhere, but it is possible that two wires are touching or have contact somehow with a track on the PCB.I had a similar problem with a 21-pin decoder board in a Bachmann (new-style) class 150 unit. I eventually traced it to a tiny sliver of solder bridging the connections to pins 10 and 11 on the daughter board that carries the decoder pins. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted March 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2016 That's the sort of fault that Hornby will repair regardless of how old the model is. I recently sent them two locos for repair - a West Country (7 years old) that had dropped a rivet from its valve gear, and a 3yo Merchant Navy whose connections to the conductive coupling in the loco had become detached. Both were repaired entirely free of charge. If you can't fix it yourself I'd contact Hornby and get them to repair it, and if it's a manufacturing fault there'll be no charge. I always use Lenz decoders now, one of the reasons being that they have short-circuit and overload protection. A Standard+ would work very well in this unit. If you have a meter then remove the blanking plug and connect it across the two end pins at each end. If either end registers a current flow then that's where your problem is going to be. Probably a bit of solder across the plug underneath. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco demarco Posted March 17, 2016 Author Share Posted March 17, 2016 Thanks SRman and RFS... some really helpful advice. I'll check for any shorts in the socket, not something that I'd be too confident to repair myself if that's the issue, but sending back to Hornby may well be the next step. Regards marco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metropolitan cammell Posted March 24, 2016 Share Posted March 24, 2016 Once it is sorted I have found the lenz silver direct to be the perfect decoder for this, it runs well and there are no wires to hide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco demarco Posted March 28, 2016 Author Share Posted March 28, 2016 Once it is sorted I have found the lenz silver direct to be the perfect decoder for this, it runs well and there are no wires to hide. Investing in quality chips is definitely the way forward! Thanks marco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybuttterworth1962 Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Hi Marco I had a similar problem fitting a chip to a VEP unit - the problem was the base settings being completely unmatched to the motor. After much perseverance I came up with the following which has run very well for a couple of years. Bachmann 8-pin decoder 36-553. Set the following motor control parameters CV54=002; CV55=060 Hope it works for you Regards Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted March 30, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2016 Hi Marco I had a similar problem fitting a chip to a VEP unit - the problem was the base settings being completely unmatched to the motor. After much perseverance I came up with the following which has run very well for a couple of years. Bachmann 8-pin decoder 36-553. Set the following motor control parameters CV54=002; CV55=060 Hope it works for you Regards Andy The Bachmann 36-553 decoder is an old, rebadged ESU decoder that was originally designed for locos with flywheels. Hence the problem you experience with the 4VEP - it's the decoder that's the issue not the VEP. The solution is a better quality decoder such as the Lenz Standard+ which will actually cost less than the Bachmann if you shop around, especially if you buy from one of the German box-shifters. Incidentally the Lenz Silver - at least in its 8-pin version - is being discontinued having been replaced by the Standard+ V2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco demarco Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Hi Marco I had a similar problem fitting a chip to a VEP unit - the problem was the base settings being completely unmatched to the motor. After much perseverance I came up with the following which has run very well for a couple of years. Bachmann 8-pin decoder 36-553. Set the following motor control parameters CV54=002; CV55=060 Hope it works for you Regards Andy Thanks Andy I'm pretty satisfied with the Bachmann 36-555 that I have installed in other locos and have a handful of brand new ones available. I will try setting the control parameters to what you've suggested and see where that gets me. I guess programming a chip in another loco and installing it into the VEP will retain the same CVs? I'm loathe to instal a brand new chip, though, until I have heard back from Hornby... I wrote to them before Easter and am still waiting for an actual human to reply! Maybe it's a problem they haven't heard of before. marco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 A few months ago, I had a problem with a Vep. All the cables (8) , that attach to the socket, on the main chassis,only 2. Had been soldered,during assembly. Sent it off to Hornby (locally). Two weeks later, I received a brand new chassis and was charged £15. How did you send your item to Hornby ? They have new offices in Sandwich,Kent,which I telephoned, was given an ID number for sending my item. Then given,an address outside Canterbury,for to send the item to,(enclosing a description of the fault). See their Customer Services website for more info. They maybe down in the dumps,considering their financial announcement yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted March 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 31, 2016 Email responses are taking weeks at the moment. I would give their service department a call on 01843233525. They will give you a 6-digit reference number and request you send the unit to this address: Hornby Hobbies Ltd.Service Department Unit 5-10 Sparrows WayInternational Business Park Hersden CT3 4JH Unlike with emails, turnaround is reasonably quick with repairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marco demarco Posted March 31, 2016 Author Share Posted March 31, 2016 A few months ago, I had a problem with a Vep. All the cables (8) , that attach to the socket, on the main chassis,only 2. Had been soldered,during assembly. Sent it off to Hornby (locally). Two weeks later, I received a brand new chassis and was charged £15. How did you send your item to Hornby ? They have new offices in Sandwich,Kent,which I telephoned, was given an ID number for sending my item. Then given,an address outside Canterbury,for to send the item to,(enclosing a description of the fault). See their Customer Services website for more info. They maybe down in the dumps,considering their financial announcement yesterday. Email responses are taking weeks at the moment. I would give their service department a call on 01843233525. They will give you a 6-digit reference number and request you send the unit to this address: Hornby Hobbies Ltd. Service Department Unit 5-10 Sparrows Way International Business Park Hersden CT3 4JH Unlike with emails, turnaround is reasonably quick with repairs. David I'm based in north London with family in Kent so I'd rather drop it off personally than send it in the post. I was just waiting to hear from an email I sent. Good for you, by the way!! I would be very happy with a result like that! RFS Thanks for that. I think I'll get a lot further with that info. marco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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