East Coast Mainline Blockade for Werrington Junction diveunder

[Richard E]

33 minutes ago, Crun said:

A question from elsewhere:

 

"On RTT I see there are engineers trains to Werrington Jn. starting this Saturday 18th July.
Saturday the 8th August there are no passenger trains between Spalding and Peterborough so can it be assumed this is the weekend when the connection from the Joint Line to the dive under line ( ? Glinton Junction ) will be installed?"

 

There are three services showing on RTT from Spalding to Peterborough on the 8th, 07:16, 08:20 and 15:54. In the other direction there is one service at 16:30. Not all of these appear on the National Rail ticket service. That is all on the Saturday. No services on the Sunday.

 

The engineering train is just the one, from Doncaster. Timetabled to arrive at 08:50 and depart at 20:00

 

The Sunday is quite normal it seems but the Saturday is a reduced service from, it seems, around 10 trains each way. A replacement bus service is being put on.

 

I don't believe the track layout changes in terms of inserting the switch and crossing would be completed that quickly. I suspect it may be a possession for other works possibly involving the new bridge beams for the Lincoln Road bridge.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Richard E

[Crun]

10 minutes ago, Richard E said:

 

There are three services showing on RTT from Spalding to Peterborough on the 8th, 07:16, 08:20 and 15:54. In the other direction there is one service at 16:30. Not all of these appear on the National Rail ticket service. That is all on the Saturday. No services on the Sunday.

 

The Sunday is quite normal it seems but the Saturday is a reduced service from, it seems, around 10 trains each way. A replacement bus service is being put on.

 

I don't believe the track layout changes in terms of inserting the switch and crossing would be completed that quickly. I suspect it may be a possession for other works possibly involving the new bridge beams for the Lincoln Road bridge.

 

Many thanks for the very helpful answer Richard.

Edited July 16, 2020 by Crun

[Donington Road]

28 minutes ago, Crun said:

A question from elsewhere:

 

"On RTT I see there are engineers trains to Werrington Jn. starting this Saturday 18th July.
Saturday the 8th August there are no passenger trains between Spalding and Peterborough so can it be assumed this is the weekend when the connection from the Joint Line to the dive under line ( ? Glinton Junction ) will be installed?"

 

Thanks for the info about engineering trains Chris.

I don't think it will be to install Glinton Junction.  It could be trains bringing in supplies of track, ballast?

I did hear that parts for the new Lincoln Road bridge are being delivered by rail but had seen no date.

[Crun]

7 minutes ago, Donington Road said:

 

Thanks for the info about engineering trains Chris.

I don't think it will be to install Glinton Junction.  It could be trains bringing in supplies of track, ballast?

I did hear that parts for the new Lincoln Road bridge are being delivered by rail but had seen no date.

 

Many thanks for the quick and informative response Mick.

[Richard E]

Checking RTT there are no services through Werrington Junction of any sort on Sunday. There is an engineering train due in at 21:27 on Saturday night but no path shown for it leaving on Sunday or Monday. It is the same the following weekend and on the 1st/2nd there is quite a bit of engineering movement but, again, no service trains on the Sunday.

 

This pattern seems to be repeated through a good part of August as well.

 

Oddly LNER and National Rail are both showing trains as running normally this weekend according to their websites.

[Crun]

 

[chris p bacon]

10 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

I seem to remember  many years ago, I knew a guy who was working on the Piccadilly line extension to Heathrow, that he explained the process. The first piles are done leaving gaps then they bore a circular hole for the pile in between that alsontakes a bitbout of the piles that have been bored first, thus when the new one is cast it all interlocks.

 

Jamie

That method is used where there is groundwater that could flood deep excavations as it creates a solid barrier.  These piles are structural with the majority being left undisturbed.

[melmerby]

9 hours ago, Richard E said:

Checking RTT there are no services through Werrington Junction of any sort on Sunday. There is an engineering train due in at 21:27 on Saturday night but no path shown for it leaving on Sunday or Monday. It is the same the following weekend and on the 1st/2nd there is quite a bit of engineering movement but, again, no service trains on the Sunday.

 

This pattern seems to be repeated through a good part of August as well.

 

Oddly LNER and National Rail are both showing trains as running normally this weekend according to their websites.

RTT shows trains departing KX regularly travelling via Posh, throughout the day.

[Richard E]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

RTT shows trains departing KX regularly travelling via Posh, throughout the day.

 

How very odd - I've just checked and it still shows nothing through Werrington Junction or Helpston but normal services north and south if I pick Peterborough or Grantham. Must be some sort of data issue with RTT I presume as I get the same no traffic result if I try Helpston.

 

 

 

[melmerby]

25 minutes ago, Richard E said:

 

How very odd - I've just checked and it still shows nothing through Werrington Junction or Helpston but normal services north and south if I pick Peterborough or Grantham. Must be some sort of data issue with RTT I presume as I get the same no traffic result if I try Helpston.

 

 

 

OpenRail (Railcam supporter feature) gives exactly the same result

No trains shown through Werrington Junction but normal service operating on the rest of the route!

 

The data comes direct from Network Rail

Edited July 16, 2020 by melmerby

[Donington Road]

Some works action from today at Cock Lane.

 

 

[Donington Road]

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

That method is used where there is groundwater that could flood deep excavations as it creates a solid barrier.  These piles are structural with the majority being left undisturbed.

 

I am surprised at that Dave, makes you wonder why the method of interlocking has not been used on the actual dive-under part.  The dive-under is well below the water table and will nessitate pumps running 24 hours a day to clear the ground water that seeps through.  Perhaps if the piles had been interlocked water pressure from behind could have been more of a structural problem than enduring the cost of installing and running sophisticated pumping machinery.

[Crun]

1 hour ago, Donington Road said:

Some works action from today at Cock Lane.

 

 

 

A great compilation of a wide variety of work going on all over the site. Thanks Mick.

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, Donington Road said:

 

I am surprised at that Dave, makes you wonder why the method of interlocking has not been used on the actual dive-under part.  The dive-under is well below the water table and will nessitate pumps running 24 hours a day to clear the ground water that seeps through.  Perhaps if the piles had been interlocked water pressure from behind could have been more of a structural problem than enduring the cost of installing and running sophisticated pumping machinery.

 

I'm not an expert with piling but I think that the interlocking piles are only the first stage in waterproofing, and it might not be possible to create a second watertight barrier.

There is the issue that if the water is allowed to build up under the adjacent track beds that might be a bigger problem, so constant drainage and pumping might be the better solution.

 

Good bit of film  Do you now what the plan is with all the soil coming out? I'm guessing they're just going to create a large hill with it.

[ess1uk]

8 hours ago, Donington Road said:

 

I am surprised at that Dave, makes you wonder why the method of interlocking has not been used on the actual dive-under part.  The dive-under is well below the water table and will nessitate pumps running 24 hours a day to clear the ground water that seeps through.  Perhaps if the piles had been interlocked water pressure from behind could have been more of a structural problem than enduring the cost of installing and running sophisticated pumping machinery.

I hope it drains better than the Acton diveunder which has pools of smelly water and green weeds 

[Donington Road]

10 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I'm not an expert with piling but I think that the interlocking piles are only the first stage in waterproofing, and it might not be possible to create a second watertight barrier.

There is the issue that if the water is allowed to build up under the adjacent track beds that might be a bigger problem, so constant drainage and pumping might be the better solution.

 

Good bit of film  Do you now what the plan is with all the soil coming out? I'm guessing they're just going to create a large hill with it.

 

Thanks for the comments.

There is so much soil, but the wrong kind

The spoil has been seperated to a certain extent, top soil to go back to make agricultural land good again.

Most of the spoil is that yellow sandstone.

At Hurn Road there is a massive heap of blue clay thats good for nothing but bricks.

There will be some embankments built and landscaped next to the new Joint Line from the dive-under.

The main site had been fallow land for probably the last fifteen years.  My son was involved in trying to sell it for industrial use about eight years ago but nothing came of it.  It would not surprise me that once NR have finished with it that it will be industrial this time.  The adjacent field is now taken up with the new Brook Drain and by the time access roads for Network Rail and the Environment Agency are implemented then that more or less covers that area.

On the north side of Hurn Road there is a field that has been used as a compound, this will be returned to agricultural use.

There has been a steady procession of lorries taking away what looks to be top soil from the main site (8 minutes in on the video shows a bit).  There has been some very good black top soil that has come out of the wide-way.

As to what will happen with all the surplus spoil is anyone'e guess.  It might take years to gradually remove it for other uses.

 

[chris p bacon]

Thanks Mick, very informative.

I did wonder with all the really poor clay/mixed waste that they would deposit it in the old Fletton pits but that is quite a substantial amount of road traffic and the cost would be excessive.  A shame it couldn't be moved by rail but this project is to increase capacity and I couldn't see how it could be loaded and moved without creating conflicts with the timetabled services.

[Mike Storey]

12 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

I'm not an expert with piling but I think that the interlocking piles are only the first stage in waterproofing, and it might not be possible to create a second watertight barrier.

There is the issue that if the water is allowed to build up under the adjacent track beds that might be a bigger problem, so constant drainage and pumping might be the better solution.

 

 

That's about the size of it. If a waterproof barrier was required (or deemed important), then sheet piling would have been used, double-reinforced with a concrete barrier in between, as was done, for example, at Canary Wharf, for a number of buildings with basements below the water table, and especially for the new CrossRail station, some years before it was fitted out. This was however, sited on London Gravel, which is not the case for Werrington.

 

I suspect, in this case, that the necessary depth to which piling would be necessary (to create a waterproof barrier), was inhibitive, either due to cost or due to sub-soil conditions. I would imagine, knowing the geology to some extent of this area, a bit of both. The water table is high and the sub-soil is mainly clay (and loam), which deforms when soaked or dried. If of insufficient depth (the Canary Wharf, and Olympic Park, pilings went down some 40-60 metres), the build-up of water behind the barriers would be unacceptable but it would also be seeping up from below, or capable of forcing up any slab base. Therefore, some leakage and continuous pumping will have been the optimum soil engineering solution. This has been a common solution at many railway and other installations over many decades, although the development of improved types of grouting or stabilisers, such as Bentonex, have changed this since I was involved, so I may be a tad wrong now!

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Mike Storey

[Richard E]

1 hour ago, chris p bacon said:

Thanks Mick, very informative.

I did wonder with all the really poor clay/mixed waste that they would deposit it in the old Fletton pits but that is quite a substantial amount of road traffic and the cost would be excessive.  A shame it couldn't be moved by rail but this project is to increase capacity and I couldn't see how it could be loaded and moved without creating conflicts with the timetabled services.

 

As far as I am aware some of the Fletton pits were filled with fly ash and domestic waste amongst other things and are now either a country park, built on or about to be built on.

[Mike Storey]

5 minutes ago, Richard E said:

 

As far as I am aware some of the Fletton pits were filled with fly ash and domestic waste amongst other things and are now either a country park, built on or about to be built on.

 

Quite so - these are now development sites. Such infill takes 10 years minimum to settle, unless extremely deep piles are used. The piles of caged bricks dotted all over the brick pits sites, were used to test settlement over that period.

[Donington Road]

4 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

Thanks Mick, very informative.

I did wonder with all the really poor clay/mixed waste that they would deposit it in the old Fletton pits but that is quite a substantial amount of road traffic and the cost would be excessive.  A shame it couldn't be moved by rail but this project is to increase capacity and I couldn't see how it could be loaded and moved without creating conflicts with the timetabled services.

 

Most of the Fletton pits have been filled.  Those that remain and many others in the area are now designated as sites of scientific interest, even new pits from gravel workings seem to fall into that category, usually before they are worked out too.

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Donington Road said:

 

Most of the Fletton pits have been filled.  Those that remain and many others in the area are now designated as sites of scientific interest, even new pits from gravel workings seem to fall into that category, usually before they are worked out too.

Flooded workings provide some of the best environments for nature, I assume in the water soaked fenland they soon fill up.

[Donington Road]

Developments at Lincoln Road/ Hurn Road Friday 17th.

Road/rail machines and lighting generators starting to appear.

 

 

 

Lots of lorries delivering hard core, quite a substantial amount has built up over the course of the afternoon.

 

This was about 1:00pm

 

This was how much the size of the heap had grown by 4:00pm.

 

Another consignment of rebar.

 

The cleaning up of the tops of piling seem to be done on the new Lincoln Road bridge.

 

 

The new footpath is coming along on the right hand side of Hurn Road.

 

But they are already digging it up

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Donington Road

[melmerby]

4 minutes ago, Donington Road said:

Developments at Lincoln Road/ Hurn Road Friday 17th.

 

The new footpath is coming along on the right hand side of Hurn Road.

 

But they are already digging it up

 

Reminds me of an episode in Birmingham some years ago.

Contractors were re-surfacing a stretch of road, maybe 200yds between two junctions.

Proper job, top surface and several inches removed, new underbase then nice looking Tarmac surface.

They had got about 25% done then one of the utilities started from the same place digging a nice wide trench in the nice new surface, filling as the job proceeded with a very rough & ready replacement surface.

They followed the road contractors all the way down the road staying about the same distance behind all the time.

By the time both had finished the road had a lovely new surface with a four foot wide strip of rough and ready down the middle.

You couldn't make it up.

 

I told the Missus who worked for Birmingham City Council and she said it shouldn't happen as the utility company have to give notice of any works and the resurfacing should have been postponed until after they had finished.

 

[Crun]

17th July 2020: Film of activity on the East Coast Mainline, work on the dive under and activity on the GNGE line:

 

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Crun