Mileage Yards, Mileage Sidings, Mileage Wagons

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Everyone,

  For decades now, i've seen and read references to the above, without ever really getting to the bottom of what they actually refer to? In books, or on track plans, I see a set of sidings marked "mileage yard", or just today, a plan of a country station, where two out of three sidings are marked "for mileage"? I'm sure i've read of groups of "mileage wagons" as well, does this all refer to general purpose stock, or to a pool of wagons available for any use, and thus does a "mileage siding/yard" refer to where these wagons are temporarily based?

                                            Cheers, Brian.

[nightstar.train]

This peaked my interest as well as its an unusual term I've never understood. A quick Google finds this:

 

Mileage yards were established for handling wagon load traffic which

was charged by the mile, and where the customer (rather than the

railway company) was responsible for loading and unloading wagons.

This contrasts with other goods traffic where the railway undertook

the loading and unloading and possibly the collection and delivery as

well. In this case additional terminal and cartage charges applied.

 

Mileage yards usually had very little in the way of buildings (goods

sheds, storage sheds etc) or other facilities, but would have good

road access for carts and trucks. Sometimes just a single mileage

siding was provided as part of a larger goods yard. At other

locations, the mileage yard would be quite separate from the main

goods yard.

From https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/uk.railway/Oy5wrX1iPhM

[big jim]

I'd never heard of 'mileage sidings' until I started working in banbury where the sidings behind the south box are still reffered to by that name, they will be history soon with the resignalling and building of the new chiltern depot on the site of the old steam shed

[Oldddudders]

Hi Everyone,

  For decades now, i've seen and read references to the above, without ever really getting to the bottom of what they actually refer to? In books, or on track plans, I see a set of sidings marked "mileage yard", or just today, a plan of a country station, where two out of three sidings are marked "for mileage"? I'm sure i've read of groups of "mileage wagons" as well, does this all refer to general purpose stock, or to a pool of wagons available for any use, and thus does a "mileage siding/yard" refer to where these wagons are temporarily based?

                                            Cheers, Brian.

 

I worked (?) in the industry for 38 years, but mercifully avoided freight business matters, so the term was unknown to me, too - and much of that sort of business had joined the dodo before I started, anyway. But thanks for asking, because I am now wiser, too.

 

Oddly, my US HO modelling had introduced me to the American term - Team Track. The term sounds odd until you realise that when railroads were opening up that continent, a cart or waggon required a team of horses - or oxen? - to pull it to the station/depot. 

[Brian Kirby]

 Thanks for that chaps. So a mileage yard or siding was a kind of DIY "load it/unload it yourself" location? So presumably the railway would provide a number of wagons, positioned in the appropriate "mileage siding", ready for and awaiting the customer? I would then imagine all yards, large and small, had a spare float of wagons available for such traffic. So the humble pick-up goods train turns up at your local station, to deliver and collect loaded wagons, but also to drop off spare, or collect surplus, empty "mileage" wagons, always leaving a few for any business that turns up out of the blue? If you loaded or unloaded the wagon yourself, with only basic supervision, you obviously got a cheaper transit rate, as opposed to the railway staff doing everything. Nowadays, the modern equivalent would be load/unload your own container, in your own depot.

     All has become clear, thanks again.

                                            Cheers, Brian.

[The Stationmaster]

 Thanks for that chaps. So a mileage yard or siding was a kind of DIY "load it/unload it yourself" location? So presumably the railway would provide a number of wagons, positioned in the appropriate "mileage siding", ready for and awaiting the customer? I would then imagine all yards, large and small, had a spare float of wagons available for such traffic. So the humble pick-up goods train turns up at your local station, to deliver and collect loaded wagons, but also to drop off spare, or collect surplus, empty "mileage" wagons, always leaving a few for any business that turns up out of the blue? If you loaded or unloaded the wagon yourself, with only basic supervision, you obviously got a cheaper transit rate, as opposed to the railway staff doing everything. Nowadays, the modern equivalent would be load/unload your own container, in your own depot.

     All has become clear, thanks again.

                                            Cheers, Brian.

 

Er no.

 

Mileage sidings/yards were where freight traffic charged at mileage rates in full wagonloads were dealt with - and we've visited them before in various threads on here.  Latterly they were much more commonly know as 'full loads sidings/yards' which in latterday commercial situations was probably a bit more meaningful as a lot of traffic was charged at market rates instead of on a mileage basis.  The term of course distingusishes this wort of traffic from from less than full loads - known as 'goods smalls' or simply 'smalls' and latterly as 'sundries'; these were consignments of less than one ton and a  wagon could be loaded with a mixture of consignments which need sorting on unloading hence they were dealt with through goods sheds.

 

Mileage/full loads traffic tended to be dealt with in the open at most depots although it was handled under cover at the large covered depots - e.g. Paddington of Bristol (GWR).  The traffic could be inwards or outwards (outwards traffic could also originate at private sidings) and handling was normally by railway company/BR staff although sometimes it could be handled by consignor or consignee - a good example is coal class traffic which was charged on a mileage basis and, obviously, was unloaded by the consignee.  Cartage could also vary - a lot of full loads traffic was carted by the railway or their agents (where cartage was contracted out) but in some cases it would be brought in to the yard/delivered by the consignor's/consignee's vehicles.cmileage traffic - e.g sugarbeet which was invariably brought in by the various consignors and in many places loaded by their labour and plant.

 

The wagons used for such traffic were as varied as the traffic itself although some were obviously specialised.  Each depot completed a daily rolling stock return reporting what they had on hand, what they anticipated 'making' as empties, and what they required for loading on the next working day - the system applied to all wagons (other than special types which were treated slightly differently) irrespective of whether they were loaded with/required for mileage or smalls traffic.  Rolling stock distribution would then route issue orders for empties (if required or order them away to meet orders elsewhere - surplus empties would inevitably be got shot of from mileage/full loads yards for the simple reason that they got in the way and if you didn't have an arising need for them you didn't want them hanging around.

 

Hope that helps make it all a bit clearer

[Brian Kirby]

Oh?  Well that's turned things on it's head, more complicated than we thought?

                                                         Cheers, Brian.

[The Stationmaster]

Oh?  Well that's turned things on it's head, more complicated than we thought?

                                                         Cheers, Brian.

 

If you want 'complicated' we could move on to standage and demurrage charges  

[SM42]

Well this is interesting and not something I had thought about before.

 

This has however raised a question with me about the mileage sidings at Kidderminster,

 

The sidings (long disappeared beneath weeds and other junk,) were on the up side, on the opposite side of the main line to the goods shed and yard. There were 3 roads and no space for loading or unloading between them.

 

Here's a photo to illustrate, they are behind the DMU.

 

 

Orignally it was the site of the engine shed until the new one was built on the Severn Valley branch around 1932.

 

I remember them in my youth as where DMUs were stabled / recessed between duties. Indeed I think the tall light standard is still there.

 

Could it be that in this case (there may be others) they were used to queue traffic up before being moved over to the yard / shed for loading / unloading?

 

Andy

[The Stationmaster]

Well this is interesting and not something I had thought about before.

 

This has however raised a question with me about the mileage sidings at Kidderminster,

 

The sidings (long disappeared beneath weeds and other junk,) were on the up side, on the opposite side of the main line to the goods shed and yard. There were 3 roads and no space for loading or unloading between them.

 

Here's a photo to illustrate, they are behind the DMU.

 

mileage sdgs.jpg

 

Orignally it was the site of the engine shed until the new one was built on the Severn Valley branch around 1932.

 

I remember them in my youth as where DMUs were stabled / recessed between duties. Indeed I think the tall light standard is still there.

 

Could it be that in this case (there may be others) they were used to queue traffic up before being moved over to the yard / shed for loading / unloading?

 

Andy

 

That is interesting.  The first question I always ask is what were they officially called?  Regrettably I don't have the relevant SRS disc for that area and the lever leads which are available off the SRS site are clearly not original drawings so we don't know what they were copied from.

 

The layout of the sidings suggests to me that they might have been used to hold traffic - possibly (as you suggest) waiting to go over to the yard but also possibly for the Severn Vally branch as clearly they were the best situated sidings for setting down and picking up traffic for through freight workings.  But one thing i think is fairly certain - without road access there was no way they could be used to handle freight traffic other than in stabled/shunted wagons.

[TheSignalEngineer]

My involvement at Kidderminster started in the early 1970s so freight traffic there had largely gone. What was left was dealt with in the yard and few trains stopped to detach. Most came on on the trips. The levers leads are pretty accurate from my memory, I did the design for the abolition of the Station box and rewire of the Junction in 1973 including the alterations to the frame. I don't know the historical context of the name but in my time they were used mainly for DMU stabling and holding turn backs if the main lines were in use for through traffic. I have a picture of the north end of the sidings with all of the connections still in which I will post later.

[TheSignalEngineer]

This shot was taken from a DMU on the Up Main at Kidderminster Station. The Mileage Sidings are to the left and the escape from the Goods Shed to the right. Kidderminster Station box was just out of frame to the right.

 

 

Edit

 

I've just noticed the Asymetric 3-way point in the Down Main, one for the 'Protoype for Everything' thread.

[SM42]

Stationmaster,

 

My recollection of working Kidderminster Jn box in the mid 90s was that they were called the Mileage Sidings on the box diagram.

 

 

As an aside and slightly OT, In signal engineer's picture above I think that might be the original engine shed on the left, (or a building very close to where it was) as this one looks brick built and I think the orignal shed was wooden.

 

Andy

[TheSignalEngineer]

Stationmaster,

 

My recollection of working Kidderminster Jn box in the mid 90s was that they were called the Mileage Sidings on the box diagram.

 

 

As an aside and slightly OT, In signal engineer's picture above I think that might be the original engine shed on the left, (or a building very close to where it was) as this one looks brick built and I think the orignal shed was wooden.

 

Andy

I didn't do the new box diagram in 1973, from memory that would have been Tony Cotterell. Siding names would have been taken from the old diagram or the Civils line diagrams.

 

The shed building was closer to the station than the one in the picture. In the early days there was a turntable which was cut into the bank. I think the semi-circular retaining wall is directly behind the lamp post at the end of the platform. There were some buildings in the vicinity of the one pictured on OS maps from the late Victorian era..

[Mrhoppity]

Er no.

 

Mileage sidings/yards were where freight traffic charged at mileage rates in full wagonloads were dealt with - and we've visited them before in various threads on here.  Latterly they were much more commonly know as 'full loads sidings/yards' which in latterday commercial situations was probably a bit more meaningful as a lot of traffic was charged at market rates instead of on a mileage basis.  The term of course distingusishes this wort of traffic from from less than full loads - known as 'goods smalls' or simply 'smalls' and latterly as 'sundries'; these were consignments of less than one ton and a  wagon could be loaded with a mixture of consignments which need sorting on unloading hence they were dealt with through goods sheds.

 

Mileage/full loads traffic tended to be dealt with in the open at most depots although it was handled under cover at the large covered depots - e.g. Paddington of Bristol (GWR).  The traffic could be inwards or outwards (outwards traffic could also originate at private sidings) and handling was normally by railway company/BR staff although sometimes it could be handled by consignor or consignee - a good example is coal class traffic which was charged on a mileage basis and, obviously, was unloaded by the consignee.  Cartage could also vary - a lot of full loads traffic was carted by the railway or their agents (where cartage was contracted out) but in some cases it would be brought in to the yard/delivered by the consignor's/consignee's vehicles.cmileage traffic - e.g sugarbeet which was invariably brought in by the various consignors and in many places loaded by their labour and plant.

 

The wagons used for such traffic were as varied as the traffic itself although some were obviously specialised.  Each depot completed a daily rolling stock return reporting what they had on hand, what they anticipated 'making' as empties, and what they required for loading on the next working day - the system applied to all wagons (other than special types which were treated slightly differently) irrespective of whether they were loaded with/required for mileage or smalls traffic.  Rolling stock distribution would then route issue orders for empties (if required or order them away to meet orders elsewhere - surplus empties would inevitably be got shot of from mileage/full loads yards for the simple reason that they got in the way and if you didn't have an arising need for them you didn't want them hanging around.

 

Hope that helps make it all a bit clearer

This helps explain the layout of Cranmore on the East Somerset line. Thank you

[roythebus]

The model railway term for a mileage yard is surely an open fiddle yard?