The Varsity Line - What if it had not closed in 1967?

[Smiffy@brizzle]

Firstly Hello! This is my first post on this site so I'm hoping I've chosen the right area to post this question. I've only modelled in 00 in the past with a particular interest in preserved railways which allow for a mixture of rolling stock and an interesting array of old equipment and rolling stock rotting/rusting away in the sidings.  

 

This is an embryonic idea for a new layout based on the premise of the Varsity Line surviving beyond the 1967 closures of sections of the line. Despite several attempts to close the line as a whole or just sections of the line, local politicians stepped in and forced the British Railways Board to maintain services along the entirety of the route. I'm planning to model a section of line near the Cambridge end during the 1980's. I've fairly sensibly assumed that the line will not have been electrified but I'm not sure what locomotives, DMUs, etc would have used the line. I remember class 31s being common at Cambridge along with 37s (I grew up near Cambridge) with pictures of Cambridge station in 1980s showing Cravens 105/106 DMUs being used too. What stock might have been used on the Varsity Line, I suspect a solitary 105 for stopping service between Cambridge and Bedford with locomotive hauled for faster Cambridge - Bedford - Oxford expresses (possibly class 50s or even Deltics eking out a second career until eventual withdrawal in the late '80s like the class 50s) but what do you think? After sectorisation who would have run the services; NSE or Provincial and would Intercity have taken responsibility for running a fast service between the two university cities?

 

I'd be interested to hear your opinions and suggestions on this idea.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Smiffy@brizzle

[russ p]

NSE 119s Oxford Cambridge?, Turbos later, or 156s 158s on Norwich Oxford? In more modern times it could have become a cross country service

[Zomboid]

Once Milton Keynes was invented, the Oxford - Bletchley bit might have been a reasonable secondary line, probably taking the Southampton to WCML (non-Birmingham) freight as well as a passenger service along the lines of the Cardiff - Portsmouths (Southampton/ Reading - Northampton/ Rugby, maybe?). So a 31 on about 5, developing into an hourly RR service of sprinters or similar.

Bletchley to Cambridge would be a branch line. Some kind of 1st gen DMU, evolving into a mix of 153s and 150s, with no freight to speak of. Maybe operated as an extension of the Ipswich - Cambridge route.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Zomboid

[russ p]

During the past twenty years or so a Freightliner service may have started to use the line to serve the south Midlands freight terminals

[stewartingram]

As a Cambridge area resident all my life, I can see this poses some interesting questions. On a similar theme, I am modelling a fictional W.Norfolk terminus (aka Hunstanton) with M&GN connections, and can see some parallels if the M&GN had not closed.

Firstly, there was a lot of political pressure to actually close the line, it was a useful through route but receipts from tickets did not reflect this as journeys started/finished off route. Also the influence from the Cambridge end to use the trckbed for satelite receivers was apparently strong. However, we may coose to overlook those points.

Traditionally, most motive power seemed to originate away from the Cambridge end (though not entirely, I have photos of ER locos at Oxford). Bletchley seemed to be the major provider of locos, with some from Bedford. In the very short diesel (loco) period, some 31 & 24 were observed from the Cambridge end, the 24 being very brief as they were being transferred away. I never saw a 37 on there. DMUs continued to be from the Bletchley area. Then closure happened....

In my M&GN might-have been, I have assumed the line would have been dieselised, again using locos from the western end such as Leicester. So locos of the period (I'm talking transition era) the MML had 27, 28, 45 and 25, so these will form my staple diet. The 28, along with the early Peak 44, I would assume would  have lost there primary importance and been downgraded in use. This is what actually happened with the 28, being transferred to the Barrow area; I like to think some of them were retained for the M&GN use. Also some oddballs like GT3 could have been tried out on the long cross-country route. Similar happenings might have been relevant to the Bletchley line? Maybe a bit more relevant for that would be LNW line locos, say 25 & the 10000/10001 pair along with 10201/2/3 which could have been used instead of being dumped at Derby. DMUs would have been supplemented with the cascades of the later 1960s; I reckon class 120 would have found favour as it was a long distance unit.

There was a proposal in Modern Railways way back when, which suggested improving the line as an orbital line from Ipswich, via Cambridge to Oxford, Didcot and Southampton, giving good connections to many lines out of London, this gives extra ideas for stock as well.

 

Stewart

[Smiffy@brizzle]

From what I managed to garner Stewart, class 37s hauled some passenger services to Kings Lynn (early machines with corridors in the nose and split displays) and I remember them running on the GN line from Cambridge hauling freight but I was a wee nipper during the 1980's and my memories are patchy.

['CHARD]

I can't help but draw parallels between the Varsity route and the equally secondary Rugby - Peterborough cross-country line, and I venture Class 24s from the LM sharing duties with Eastern 31s, with the occasional 37 and inevitable 47 on whatever loco-hauled services survived.  When Bletchley had its 25 allocation in the seventies, these were no-heat locos, but clearly they could have worked the route in summer.

 

Such stopping services that survived I reckon would be in the hands of Eastern Cravens units, whatever Bletchley had to hand (104, 105), and an occasional Western interloper - possibly a Reading 118 or 119, filling in from Oxford.  I don't subscribe to the real loco rarities, like 10000 et al, but I am prepared to believe a Hymek in 1973, Class 50s in the eighties and the occasional Gloucester parcels DMU.

[chris p bacon]

From what I managed to garner Stewart, class 37s hauled some passenger services to Kings Lynn (early machines with corridors in the nose and split displays) and I remember them running on the GN line from Cambridge hauling freight but I was a wee nipper during the 1980's and my memories are patchy.

That would of been the Fen Drayton (St Ives) to North London sand trains.

 

I'm building Sandy (see the tag line below) I'll have a think about what stock you'd see.

[uax6]

What was the routes RA number? If you can find that out you will be able to find out what your largest loco would have been.

 

I think that it would be fairly run down in the 80's, with little more than a once every two hours service of Dmus.

 

Andy g

[The Stationmaster]

The Swindon - Peterborough service which was being planned in the early 1990s was going to be resourced with Regional Railways Class 158 units.

[The Stationmaster]

What was the routes RA number? If you can find that out you will be able to find out what your largest loco would have been.

 

I think that it would be fairly run down in the 80's, with little more than a once every two hours service of Dmus.

 

Andy g

Definitely used by Class 47s - behind one of which I had my first trip between Oxford and Bletchley in 1985.  They and 1000s were also used on the various stone trains which more recently are presumably in the hands of Class 66s

[Peter Kazmierczak]

The through "service" on this line was truly appalling .

 

From the winter 1961/62 timetable:

 

Cambridge - Oxford

Cantab d. 07.37

Oxon a. 10.28 (change at Bletchley - 13 min connection)

 

Cantab d. 10.12

Oxon a. 12.55 (change at Bletchley - 16 min connection)

 

Cantab d. 11.22

Oxon a. 14.45 (change at Bletchley - 57 min connection)

 

Cantab d. 14.12

Oxon a. 18.05 (change at Bletchley - 1 hour 27 min connection)

 

Cantab d.18.18

Oxon a. 21.46 (change at Bletchley - 1 hour 7 min connection)

 

 

The only through train (either way) was the 14.46 Oxford - Cambridge

[chris p bacon]

The through "service" on this line was truly appalling .

 

From the winter 1961/62 timetable:

 

Cambridge - Oxford

Cantab d. 07.37

Oxon a. 10.28 (change at Bletchley - 13 min connection)

 

Cantab d. 10.12

Oxon a. 12.55 (change at Bletchley - 16 min connection)

 

Cantab d. 11.22

Oxon a. 14.45 (change at Bletchley - 57 min connection)

 

Cantab d. 14.12

Oxon a. 18.05 (change at Bletchley - 1 hour 27 min connection)

 

Cantab d.18.18

Oxon a. 21.46 (change at Bletchley - 1 hour 7 min connection)

 

 

The only through train (either way) was the 14.46 Oxford - Cambridge

Most journeys from Sandy were to either the intermediate stations or Bedford/Cambridge it was unusual to journey beyond so I'm not surprised there were few through trains.

[Clearwater]

Ironically, in the early mid 90s, there was a reasonably used direct coach service between Oxford and Cambridge. From memory, journey took around 3 hours

 

David

[Nearholmer]

Still is, and it runs half-hourly, well-loaded, and journey time is a bit variable because of heavy traffic at numerous points along the route, all of which points at the need to get ahead and reopen as much of the railway as possible; it is a seriously missing link.

 

K

[stewartingram]

From what I managed to garner Stewart, class 37s hauled some passenger services to Kings Lynn (early machines with corridors in the nose and split displays) and I remember them running on the GN line from Cambridge hauling freight but I was a wee nipper during the 1980's and my memories are patchy.

D6700-29 were "our" locos delivered new to 30A Stratford, and replaced Brush 2 (31) on the Kings Lynn services. They also worked some freight/parcels and other passenger services that 30A covered. Not saying it didn't happen, but I have never seen evidence of use on the Bletchley line.

 

Stewart

[rogerzilla]

Don't all students have cars these days, the cosseted dears?

 

Class 47s were the usual haulage on medium-distance SE and Midlands services in the 1980s; as a student myself, I was stranded more than once between Basingstoke (home) and Birmingham (university) when one of the things broke down!  I've never liked them since.

[stewartingram]

I can't help but draw parallels between the Varsity route and the equally secondary Rugby - Peterborough cross-country line, and I venture Class 24s from the LM sharing duties with Eastern 31s, with the occasional 37 and inevitable 47 on whatever loco-hauled services survived.  When Bletchley had its 25 allocation in the seventies, these were no-heat locos, but clearly they could have worked the route in summer.

 

Such stopping services that survived I reckon would be in the hands of Eastern Cravens units, whatever Bletchley had to hand (104, 105), and an occasional Western interloper - possibly a Reading 118 or 119, filling in from Oxford.  I don't subscribe to the real loco rarities, like 10000 et al, but I am prepared to believe a Hymek in 1973, Class 50s in the eighties and the occasional Gloucester parcels DMU.

Loco hauled steam passengers were mainly 1E Bletchley jobs, though I have some pics of GE locos being used, When dmus replaced most of the steam services, an allocation of  new 108s to 1E happened, along with some use of Derby Lightweights, particularly the 2x single units that primarily served the Buckingham branch. With the last steam gone, I saw 31 and 24 replace them. Goods trains (steam) however were also hauled by Bedford locos.

As for Hymek and Western locos, well it did happen! I have previously posted on here a pic of a Hymek with green coaches on a Footex to Cambridge, and I know of at least 1 Western (D1008? - I never saw it) got through to Cambridge on a special.

 

Stewart

[stewartingram]

The through "service" on this line was truly appalling .

 

From the winter 1961/62 timetable:

 

Cambridge - Oxford

Cantab d. 07.37

Oxon a. 10.28 (change at Bletchley - 13 min connection)

 

Cantab d. 10.12

Oxon a. 12.55 (change at Bletchley - 16 min connection)

 

Cantab d. 11.22

Oxon a. 14.45 (change at Bletchley - 57 min connection)

 

Cantab d. 14.12

Oxon a. 18.05 (change at Bletchley - 1 hour 27 min connection)

 

Cantab d.18.18

Oxon a. 21.46 (change at Bletchley - 1 hour 7 min connection)

 

 

The only through train (either way) was the 14.46 Oxford - Cambridge

Ahhhh, the 0737 dep, probably the train I used most during my trainspotting period from Cambridge! Happy memories of 75038 (& others), and 45292 & 45393 being used!

 

Stewart

[Nearholmer]

"Don't all students have cars these days, the cosseted dears?"

 

Having driven out of Oxford this evening, it seems that everyone in the universe, let alone the university, drives in or out of the place, creating massive traffic jams in all directions. Where rail would score over road would be a consistent journey time at all times of day, whereas busses and coaches have to tough it out in the congestion.

 

K

Edited June 2, 2016 by Nearholmer

[wagonman]

"Don't all students have cars these days, the cosseted dears?"

 

Having driven out of Oxford this evening, it seems that everyone in the universe, let alone the university, drives in or out of the place, creating massive traffic jams in all directions. Where rail would score over road would be a consistent journey time at all times of day, whereas busses and coaches have to tough it out in the congestion.

 

K

 

 

Traffic in and around Cambridge is equally disastrous – which is why most students still seem to favour the bicycle, preferably one with a basket on the front.

[sharris]

Hi Smiffy

 

Another one here on the Oxford to Cambridge route (I'm doing Willington, but in the 1930s). I occasionally took the train from Bedford to Bletchley round about 1980 - there were definitely Cravens on the route then - since they were already running through to Cambridge in the 1960s, I would expect if the line was still open they'd still be there in the 80s. In terms of locomotives I remember seeing an oddity in the 90s of a couple of carriages flanked by two class 31s on the Bedford to Bletchley route. Bill Simpson's Oxford to Cambridge Railway book had pictures of a 31 on engineering duty and a 24 on freight duty on the line before it closed. I don't know when 24s lasted until (my diesel knowledge is severely lacking), but I can imagine 31s still working the line in some capacity.

 

Of course your 'what if' would have to assume the Mullard radio astronomy dishes were never built, which might annoy some astronomers!

 

Originally I was planning on modelling Blunham, and have some photographs from that station as it was in the 90s (then a private house), and some drawings. Apart from Willington (ironically for me) most of the stations were built to a common design between Bedford and Cambridge - PM me if you want me to dig them out.

[Boco_D1]

I've certainly seen photos of westerns on stone trains on the line and rats doing workings to the old Bedford power station.

 

I have also wondered what the line would be like if it never closed, certainly these days freightliner's working between Ipswich and Southampton and other connecting terminals such as Bristol. There are a fair few freights that pass through Bedford during the night that head for Acton/Theale/Westbury that come onto the western region via Acton wells and Acton that would benefit from the route being open.

 

In the past parts of the line that have been open have seen:

Class 59 (ARC stone trainspotters wolverton on the Oxford to Bletchley section)

Class 56 (stone trains)

Class 58 (Forders bin liner)

Class 47 (Forders bin liner)

Class 45 (Forders bin liner)

Class 60 (peak forest to Bletchley stone train)

Class 66

Class 37 (Forders bin liner)

Class 121

Class 117

Class 33 (railtour)

Class 150

Class 31 (remember the top and tailed set that worked the line in the early 00s)

HST (one certainly worked along the Bletchley to Oxford section just before closure)

 

So plenty of choice.

[sharris]

Assuming continuity from the Bedford to Bletchley section, early 1980s livery would be BR blue, later that section was the early Network Southeast livery, although one unit at least went back to BR green.

[stewartingram]

Hi Smiffy

 

Another one here on the Oxford to Cambridge route (I'm doing Willington, but in the 1930s). I occasionally took the train from Bedford to Bletchley round about 1980 - there were definitely Cravens on the route then - since they were already running through to Cambridge in the 1960s, I would expect if the line was still open they'd still be there in the 80s. In terms of locomotives I remember seeing an oddity in the 90s of a couple of carriages flanked by two class 31s on the Bedford to Bletchley route. Bill Simpson's Oxford to Cambridge Railway book had pictures of a 31 on engineering duty and a 24 on freight duty on the line before it closed. I don't know when 24s lasted until (my diesel knowledge is severely lacking), but I can imagine 31s still working the line in some capacity.

 

Of course your 'what if' would have to assume the Mullard radio astronomy dishes were never built, which might annoy some astronomers!

 

Originally I was planning on modelling Blunham, and have some photographs from that station as it was in the 90s (then a private house), and some drawings. Apart from Willington (ironically for me) most of the stations were built to a common design between Bedford and Cambridge - PM me if you want me to dig them out.

 

I must admit to being more interested in the eastern end and prior to closure.

I never saw a Cravens set on that, they must have been post closure (of the Cambridge - Bedford section) and used on the Bedford - Bletchley section?

The 31s with coaches were the shuttles operated as dmu replacements by Fragonset in the 90s. I was working at the Kempston Fire HQ at the time and managed to get a few pics of them.

I think the 24s finally left East Anglia by 1966/67, I believe they ended up in the North West area.

 

Stewart

Edited June 2, 2016 by stewartingram