BR Oil Trains

[Cwmtwrch]

15 minutes ago, Andy_C said:

Forgive my naivety, but TTA v TTV? Sorry, you are going to have to help me with the abbreviations, please? 

The third character of TOPS codes shows the type of brake A = Air, B = Air + Vacuum pipe, O = unfitted, P = vacuum piped only, V = vacuum braked, W = vacuum brake + air pipe, X = dual braked. Some of these are now obsolete. The first T = tank wagon, but I don't know what the second T shows.

 

The wagons in the photo you posted are all unfitted.

[Andy_C]

1 minute ago, Cwmtwrch said:

The third character of TOPS codes shows the type of brake A = Air, B = Air + Vacuum pipe, O = unfitted, P = vacuum piped only, V = vacuum braked, W = vacuum brake + air pipe, X = dual braked. Some of these are now obsolete. The first T = tank wagon, but I don't know what the second T shows.

 

The wagons in the photo you posted are all unfitted.

Gotya. Thank you for taking the time in explaining this. 
 

Cheers, Andy.

[Fat Controller]

4 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

The third character of TOPS codes shows the type of brake A = Air, B = Air + Vacuum pipe, O = unfitted, P = vacuum piped only, V = vacuum braked, W = vacuum brake + air pipe, X = dual braked. Some of these are now obsolete. The first T = tank wagon, but I don't know what the second T shows.

 

The wagons in the photo you posted are all unfitted.

Second 'T' indicates 45t GLW; likewise 'TSV' is 35t GLW and 'TUA' 51t GLW. 

[Aire Head]

7 hours ago, Andy_C said:

I was going to run my tanker train similar to this?

 

Something like this?

 

This is meant to represent a Leeds to Heysham (Empties) oil trains on the Aire Valley Line in 1955.

 

To my understanding (and I'm happy to be corrected) oil trains of this period would be composed of vehicles belonging to the same company. Liveries would be Black for Class B products (Diesel, Butumin etc) or Silver with red frames for Class A (Petrol, Paraffin etc) and would require 2 vehicles at either end of the train as barrier vehicles (some sources I have seen say only at the locomotive end) the vehicles used as barriers would typically be old stock often mineral wagons from the images I have seen.

 

There are wiser more knowledgeable bods here who can either correct me or provide more detail.

[Andy_C]

8 hours ago, Aire Head said:

 

Something like this?

 

This is meant to represent a Leeds to Heysham (Empties) oil trains on the Aire Valley Line in 1955.

 

To my understanding (and I'm happy to be corrected) oil trains of this period would be composed of vehicles belonging to the same company. Liveries would be Black for Class B products (Diesel, Butumin etc) or Silver with red frames for Class A (Petrol, Paraffin etc) and would require 2 vehicles at either end of the train as barrier vehicles (some sources I have seen say only at the locomotive end) the vehicles used as barriers would typically be old stock often mineral wagons from the images I have seen.

 

There are wiser more knowledgeable bods here who can either correct me or provide more detail.

Yep. I have a 2-8-0 in late BR colours ready for this kind of goods. I’ll get another once the layout actually is up and running, as 2-8-0’s were very popular around here for coal and other freight as well. 
 

Interestingly I have lots of photos that date from the 60’s but show locos and stock from the earlier era. It just allows more variety! A few contributors to a Midland Railway group on FB have been especially helpful with photos and info. 

[Aire Head]

29 minutes ago, Andy_C said:

Yep. I have a 2-8-0 in late BR colours ready for this kind of goods. I’ll get another once the layout actually is up and running, as 2-8-0’s were very popular around here for coal and other freight as well. 
 

Interestingly I have lots of photos that date from the 60’s but show locos and stock from the earlier era. It just allows more variety! A few contributors to a Midland Railway group on FB have been especially helpful with photos and info. 

 

Which particular area are you modelling?

[Andy_C]

1 hour ago, Aire Head said:

Which particular area are you modelling?

Era 5, so I get late crest steam and early green diesels. 

[Cwmtwrch]

10 hours ago, Aire Head said:

To my understanding (and I'm happy to be corrected) oil trains of this period would be composed of vehicles belonging to the same company. Liveries would be Black for Class B products (Diesel, Butumin etc) or Silver with red frames for Class A (Petrol, Paraffin etc) and would require 2 vehicles at either end of the train as barrier vehicles (some sources I have seen say only at the locomotive end) the vehicles used as barriers would typically be old stock often mineral wagons from the images I have seen.

Block trains would indeed convey one company's stock only, but, for example, Cleveland tanks would appear with Esso tanks, as they belonged to Esso from the 1930s, and National Benzol tanks with SMBP tanks after the 1957 takeover. Barrier wagons were required for Class A traffic, but not Class B. However block trains in the 1950s would convey a mixture, and even if the outbound train was all Class B on a particular day, there would be no guarantee that the returning empties would be, so the barrier vehicles were presumably always  present.

 

Liveries were Class A silver tanks [later grey] with red solebars [but not buffer beams] and Class B black, which, for convenience, was also applied to those carrying loads with a flash point above Class B, which includes both Heavy Fuel Oil and Bitumen.

 

The requirements for barrier wagons [how many, what type of vehicle and where] varied over time, especially after the demise of steam.

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, Cwmtwrch said:

Block trains would indeed convey one company's stock only, but, for example, Cleveland tanks would appear with Esso tanks, as they belonged to Esso from the 1930s, and National Benzol tanks with SMBP tanks after the 1957 takeover. Barrier wagons were required for Class A traffic, but not Class B. However block trains in the 1950s would convey a mixture, and even if the outbound train was all Class B on a particular day, there would be no guarantee that the returning empties would be, so the barrier vehicles were presumably always  present.

 

Liveries were Class A silver tanks [later grey] with red solebars [but not buffer beams] and Class B black, which, for convenience, was also applied to those carrying loads with a flash point above Class B, which includes both Heavy Fuel Oil and Bitumen.

 

The requirements for barrier wagons [how many, what type of vehicle and where] varied over time, especially after the demise of steam.

Could a class b tank/s be used as a barrier for class a tanks?

[Aire Head]

5 hours ago, Cwmtwrch said:

The requirements for barrier wagons [how many, what type of vehicle and where] varied over time, especially after the demise of steam.

 

Here is what the 1950 Rulebook has to say about it.

[rodent279]

4 minutes ago, Aire Head said:

 

Here is what the 1950 Rulebook has to say about it.

That implies to me that using a class b tank, empty, as a barrier vehicle was at least in accordance with the rules.