Do double standards exist in this hobby?

[PatB]

 

Likewise, I would assume 16mm is a rounded off metric equivalent of 5/8" (15.875), which was the original H0 gauge (half of 1¼" which was the 0 gauge at the time - itself a rounding off of Märklin's 35mm (IIRC) measured to the rail centres). It was then found that a little more clearance was needed, hence 16.5mm.

 

On a slightly related note, I've just reread The Model Railway Encyclopedia from c1950 and was interested to see that what is now called S gauge is referred to therein as H1. It doesn't get much mention in the text but appears in the tables of standards in the appendices. Whilst gauge 1 succumbed, at least in part, to metrication, it's half sized offspring remains true to Imperial fractional measurements.

[Retfordlad]

In the best traditions of Sir Topham Hatt ... I decided some time ago it's my railway so I run what pleases me .... if my driver had the wrong colour cap on and the lining on that loco is from the wrong year ... well, it's for my pleasure and the kids... if the 'staff' are happy so is the 'managment'

[Colin_McLeod]

My layout might be described as having "triple standards" My sidings can contain 4mm scale British trains on 16.5mm track (instead of 18.83mm). There are also 4mm scale Irish trains also at 16.5mm (instead of 21mm) and also some HO German and Chinese trains which in their case are ok on 16.5mm track.

[EddieB]

Candidate for job as a fitter at Harland & Wolf shipyard, Belfast:

"I am very skilled and can worked to within one thousandth of an inch"

 

Foreman:  "That's no good. For this job you have to be dead on".

Holier than thou?

[Edwardian]

Hello everyone,

 

This has been going through my mind lately and I was wondering if anyone else shares these thoughts. I hope that this will be a thoughtful discussion rather than anything inflammatory. There is one or two double standards that I've noticed that is worth mentioning:

 

1) It's funny how people will rip endlessly into Hornby for the "wrong green" of their GWR engines, but no one says a peep about Bachmann's bright orange lining for their GWR engines. The lining is just as wrong as the colour but you won't find any significant threads discussing but you will find many many threads about Hornby's GWR green.

 

2) I'm not sure if this is exactly a double standard but it should be mentioned. People complain about how there are not any local model shops around where they live, yet they then describe how they ordered 400 quid of stuff from an online box shifter. Clearly, some people do not see the connection.

 

Does anyone else have any observations?

 

No, I complain about both.  I hold up Bachmann's GW green as a better, deeper colour, but invariably add that it's a pity the orange lining is too heavy. 

 

Clearly you've not been paying attention!

 

I vastly prefer browsing in a model railway shop, and confine my purchases to a shop wherever possible.  The exception was when I got drunk and accidentally pre-ordered a Hornby Black Motor.  Otherwise, I ask my local shop to reserve a forthcoming item and have the pleasure of going into the shop to collect it.

[rob D2]

Hello everyone,

 

This has been going through my mind lately and I was wondering if anyone else shares these thoughts. I hope that this will be a thoughtful discussion rather than anything inflammatory. There is one or two double standards that I've noticed that is worth mentioning:

 

1) It's funny how people will rip endlessly into Hornby for the "wrong green" of their GWR engines, but no one says a peep about Bachmann's bright orange lining for their GWR engines. The lining is just as wrong as the colour but you won't find any significant threads discussing but you will find many many threads about Hornby's GWR green.

 

2) I'm not sure if this is exactly a double standard but it should be mentioned. People complain about how there are not any local model shops around where they live, yet they then describe how they ordered 400 quid of stuff from an online box shifter. Clearly, some people do not see the connection.

 

Does anyone else have any observations?

 

 

There's double standards in everything . Don't lose any sleep over it.

[railsquid]

My layout might be described as having "triple standards" My sidings can contain 4mm scale British trains on 16.5mm track (instead of 18.83mm). There are also 4mm scale Irish trains also at 16.5mm (instead of 21mm) and also some HO German and Chinese trains which in their case are ok on 16.5mm track.

 

Ooh, I can beat that - on my 9mm N gauge track I have (off the top of my head):

 

Standard gauge: British (1:148), Franco-British (1:160), Japanese (1:150), German/American/Japanese (1:160)

Cape gauge: Japanese (1:150)

Broad gauge: Russian/Spanish (1:160)

Metre gauge: Swiss (1:150)

 

Not counting various older models which are hopelessly out of scale.

[piranha230]

Why should you pay full list price's from local model shop's , rather than buy at discounted price's from a so called box shifter?, the shop I use Arcadia in Shaw, Oldham has always matched or beaten box shifter prices and he has been doing this and still going around 18 year's or more now.

I usually buy from him despite now living in Manchester, I can inspect the product before buying it, but it is a 14 mile round trip, so what it might cost me in petrol would probably cost the same as postage and packing from a box shifter.

There was another shop in Greenfield Oldham ,Norman Wisenden he always charged full list price or more for models, hence why he had loads of faded boxes of old Hornby in his cabinet's that had never shifted.

So any local model shop should either do the same as Arcadia in Shaw or lose custom to the box shifters.

[piranha230]

It is like saying a multipack of Winalot dog food can's is £8.00 at Asda , but at Morrisons it's £13.00 and both supermarkets are near each other, I know where I would go to buy it from.

People shop around these day's for the lowest price, it is easy to do a Google search.

I always remember a saying by a sales manager I knew "THEIR'S NO POINT IN PAYING FOR SOMETHING YOU CAN GET FOR LESS"

[piranha230]

I meant to say, "Theirs no point in paying more for something you can get for less.

[PaulRhB]

There's also the temptation though to follow supermarket practice and discount to bring people in with loss leaders and drag away the custom from the local shops. While it's inevitable to further their own business then you can't complain when the local shop goes under because they can't make ends meet. Don't forget that a shop rent can vary by part of the country affecting property prices and can affect some smaller shops ability to discount..

Loyalty to your local shop has a price but also benefits.

[Colin_McLeod]

There was another shop in Greenfield Oldham ,Norman Wisenden he always charged full list price or more for models, hence why he had loads of faded boxes of old Hornby in his cabinet's that had never shifted.

 

I wonder has he any unsold Hornby Dublo or Wren at manufacturers' recommended retail price (including purchase tax).

 

One can dream lol

[rue_d_etropal]

Skimmed through this thread, as unusual seems to be fairly standard comments.

There are double standards, those who say they are modelling to scale, using more accurate(??) track etc, but then mix it to suit themselves, and those who just accept the hobby is about compromise and get on and enjoy the hobby.

Oh, there is a better way to model British standard gauge on 16.5mm track and that is HO. trouble is there is not enough support for traditional businesses to produce the models, at the price people are prepared to pay.

Most people want something that works, not just looking pretty, especially when it costs a lot, but don't have the skills to hand build the essentials, ie track ,and chassis. Most are happy, and capable of doing a bit of upgrading on models, and will accept compromises .Provide enough for the average(?) modeller to build a model to their satisfaction, and  most are happy. Provide something too complex and many will try, but most will not get the result they want, and some will give up.

When it comes to talking about local model shops, I will always try to support them, but witnessed the decline in model railway shops in central London, from Hamblings to Victors(Beaties/Model zone was not in same league, and Hamleys does still have boxes to sell), I remember Eames in reading. More importantly I tried to run one established shop up north, but failed in the end, partly because of my business inexperience and partly because of lack of money to invest from the owners). It is not just about selling boxes, but more about the support a real shop can offer. Many of those still around, even those doing well don't offer me that little extra I am often looking for, the essentials of modelling - materials. Also stocking non railway items is useful -ships, planes, dragons, All these connected hobbies can share, but some people only seem to focus on one.

[Guy Rixon]

I have never understood the logic behind track gauges. [...] Why 1' 11 1/2" rather than 2'? [...]

 

 

I suspect it's 60cm gauge rounded off to the nearest half-inch. 60cm is now, and ever has been, a popular gauge for mine railways.

[ejstubbs]

Also stocking non railway items is useful -ships, planes, dragons, All these connected hobbies can share, but some people only seem to focus on one.

 

You've just given me an idea for a freight load for my Lowfit other than the ubiquitous tractor/plough!

Edited July 11, 2016 by ejstubbs

[Revolution Mike]

I meant to say, "Theirs no point in paying more for something you can get for less.

 

There is if it is a false economy. For example your local shop may give you a better personal service eg allowing you to see the model or test it before you buy. Or it might make a return easier to do if necessary.  Of course there is also the small fact that it might also be worth supporting your local model shop for the convenience factor of being able to pop in when you need glue/plasticard etc etc.

 

It certainly isn't as simple as you make out. I don't think you are necessarily wrong to use a box shifter but criticising (or certainly implying criticism) others for choosing to support their local shop is also not on.

[MGR Hooper!]

Hello everyone,

 

This has been going through my mind lately and I was wondering if anyone else shares these thoughts. I hope that this will be a thoughtful discussion rather than anything inflammatory. There is one or two double standards that I've noticed that is worth mentioning:

 

1) It's funny how people will rip endlessly into Hornby for the "wrong green" of their GWR engines, but no one says a peep about Bachmann's bright orange lining for their GWR engines. The lining is just as wrong as the colour but you won't find any significant threads discussing but you will find many many threads about Hornby's GWR green.

 

2) I'm not sure if this is exactly a double standard but it should be mentioned. People complain about how there are not any local model shops around where they live, yet they then describe how they ordered 400 quid of stuff from an online box shifter. Clearly, some people do not see the connection.

 

Does anyone else have any observations?

Yes...Double-standards really do exist!

 

1) Brands like Hornby and Dapol have had to face the majority of it, whereas I clearly see people overlooking a lot of Bachmann's problems (and even if Bachmann issues are discussed it's very obviously lesser and always forgiven).

 

In terms of DJM, there's many things I disliked, I think DJM has said a little too much on many occasions and surprisingly not been pulled up, I see a certain admin support DJM for any and everything. Currently I feel DJM is a little more on the big-talk side of things. After a certain episode that unfolded yesterday, I will now never provide any feedback on any DJM items as many feel that DJM is the God of all manufacturers.

 

Similarly with SLW, who's produced a quality Class 24, I fail to see why SLW had to specificly mention Hornby's "Design-Clever" strategy (we asked for it...literally). And I don't see much debate about the horrible attempt at glazing on the model. Yes it was brought up but can you imagine if Hornby did it? SLW should've been advertising their products based on their own products and not trying to pull down another manufacturer who was simply answering our pleas for price-reductions.

 

Manufacturers with big mouths don't get my vote or money..! Admins who support such manufacturers don't deserve to be admins.

 

 

 

2) As for local model shops if mine has what I want I buy it, if not I buy directly from the manufacturer...

Edited July 11, 2016 by MGR Hooper!

[Zomboid]

If purchase price is the only factor, then the "box shifters" win.

The problem is putting a price on the other factors that your local shop can provide. Is it worth an extra £5 a loco to have that convenience? £10? £25?

If my local shop was any use to me, I'd pay a premium, but I'm not sure how much.

[coachmann]

Why should you pay full list price's from local model shop's , rather than buy at discounted price's from a so called box shifter?, the shop I use Arcadia in Shaw, Oldham has always matched or beaten box shifter prices and he has been doing this and still going around 18 year's or more now.

I usually buy from him despite now living in Manchester, I can inspect the product before buying it, but it is a 14 mile round trip, so what it might cost me in petrol would probably cost the same as postage and packing from a box shifter.

There was another shop in Greenfield Oldham ,Norman Wisenden he always charged full list price or more for models, hence why he had loads of faded boxes of old Hornby in his cabinet's that had never shifted.

So any local model shop should either do the same as Arcadia in Shaw or lose custom to the box shifters.

 I knew modellers who travelled many miles to Norman Wisenden's shop on Sundays (yup, me too) because they knew that just about every item on their shopping list could be gotten there. To carry stock like that cost money, Norman's money. He complained about folk going for 'cheap' just before Xmas then taking malfunctioning models to his shop for attention after xmas 'cos his was a "real" model shop AND it opened day after Boxing Day.  But he still sorted them. His business was healthy enough ~ His health wasn't towards the end.

Edited July 11, 2016 by coachmann

[piranha230]

The thing is though, you could for example pay around £30 more for a unit from Norman Wisenden , than it would cost at Arcadia in the same town.

[rob D2]

The thing is though, you could for example pay around £30 more for a unit from Norman Wisenden , than it would cost at Arcadia in the same town.

 

Do you shop at waitrose or lidl ?

Different retailers charge differently for same stuff, it's not ' double standards ' it's life I'm afriad.

[Revolution Mike]

The thing is though, you could for example pay around £30 more for a unit from Norman Wisenden , than it would cost at Arcadia in the same town.

 

You have the choice whether the difference in price is worth it and that will differ for every customer with almost every retailer, but your original point was that we should all just go for the cheapest effectively. Various people have pointed out that it is not that simple.

[Zomboid]

The thing is though, you could for example pay around £30 more for a unit from Norman Wisenden , than it would cost at Arcadia in the same town.

Not everyone would be willing to pay that, but if enough people are willing to support that business on those terms then the arrangement works.

The same applies to most things you buy. You want "a car", and the cheapest thing money can buy is a Dacia Sandero. Why then are the roads full of Audis and BMWs? Because people are willing to pay more to get more.

[coachmann]

Around here, Mercedesman has replaced Mondeoman.  I wonder if fullcream Hornbyfan has replaced Railroadman?

Edited July 12, 2016 by coachmann

[piranha230]

My point is, two model shops in Oldham, both sell more or less the same things, so you can buy paints, glue ect from either, but one charges full list price for everything they sell, the other matches or beats box shifter prices.

I would shop at the one who matches or beats box shifter prices, im not willing to pay around £30 difference at full list price, when I can get it that much cheaper in the same town

That is why Norman Wisenden had loads of old Hornby stock in faded boxes that had never shifted as his prices were too high, his shop rarely had many customers in when I went.

Arcadia is usually busy and full of customers, and his phone is ringing a lot, with people taking telephone orders.

 

It is like saying this, there are two main Ford dealers in the same town and I want a brand new Mondeo, dealer charges £23,000 full list price, but the other dealer in town charges £19,000 discounted price for the same spec car, either can do the same servicing, but I am not putting £4 grand excess profit to make the 1st dealer richer when I can get the same new car for less money, the difference in price is better in my pocket than theirs.