LNER Quint Articulated Suburban Coach Sets in OO Gauge

[Palace Gates]

As a complete novice, I’m looking for co-conspirator(s) for a potential 3-D printing project. I recently purchased Isinglass's excellent drawings but OO Gauge representations of the above coaching stock are limited to Bill Bedford’s Mousa side etchings only kits (requiring modelling skills well beyond those possessed by ordinary mortals), or the outdated Kirk plastic kits long out of production due to worn moulds. The Kirk kits crop up on eBay occasionally fetching IMO obscene amounts of money (suggesting a potential untapped commercial opportunity). Neither of the above includes any interior detail. Advice, support & input of expertise on how I might progress this project would be very welcome. RSVP.

[rue_d_etropal]

I suggest looking at designing something basic, a simple coach first. I have been woring og 3D print design for over 4 years and only recently started on doing a coach.ven then I chose one that was flat sided. Cost migh still be a bit high for some, especially if you want an interior and all fittings. Better to just do body and use other commercial parts9r2r gresley bogies run btter than kit built ones for most people).

For me the big advantage of 3D printing is being able to do it is various scales, assuming the CAD software allows it, but most should. I paid for software, and have not regretted it. I resize my models in over 10 different scales, and could do more. It does not cost any extra, and opens up the hobby to far more people. A Quin-Art set in HO, that would be nice. If I did not have so many other ideas I might be tempted myself.

Not surprised to hear moulds are wornout from the kirk kit (did they produce enough to wear them out), but the picture you post shows it as now Coopercraft. Asumed they would be producing the coaches.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

I think those obscene amounts on eBay might be more attractive when you find out how much they will be...
When I last printed a coach a complete one with some interior it was costing £120 per coach. And after the price increase from a well known and used 3D printers that went to £150.
 

Sadly it's not much cheaper doing it privately either,

Cost me well over £500 for a 4 coach set. and that was in the cheapest material... might think about getting those insured..
I have printed some smaller coach bodies with interior recently they are costing £50-60, with no chassis.

3D printing is good and useful... but expensive for larger items I think still its better for small detailing parts.

 

[Paul Cram]

Isinglas are doing 3d printed coach sides and as yet the technology does not seem to be good enough, the sides being quite rough. The cost as alluded to above is likelly to be quite high. Most applicatiions seem to ne to print a master and then use that as a casting mould. I am not sure that there is sufficeient demend for quint arts to make that viable though.

[teaky]

Bill Bedford's latest releases have been in resin.  Have you considered contacting him to discuss the quint-arts?  I don't know if it is the case but if he is gradually moving from brass to resin then there may be some good news for you.

[Palace Gates]

More thought-provoking discussion and developments here...

 

http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=11780

[old_grandpops]

The Historical Model Railway Society are custodians of the drawings for these and other articulated vehicles that were  built by Metro-Cammell. For more information search the drawing list for British & Irish Railways on our website or contact me on drawing-archivist@hmrs.org.uk.

[billbedford]

As a complete novice, I’m looking for co-conspirator(s) for a potential 3-D printing project. I recently purchased Isinglass's excellent drawings but OO Gauge representations of the above coaching stock are limited to Bill Bedford’s Mousa side etchings only kits (requiring modelling skills well beyond those possessed by ordinary mortals), or the outdated Kirk plastic kits long out of production due to worn moulds. The Kirk kits crop up on eBay occasionally fetching IMO obscene amounts of money (suggesting a potential untapped commercial opportunity). Neither of the above includes any interior detail. Advice, support & input of expertise on how I might progress this project would be very welcome. RSVP.

 

 

So you are looking for someone to design and produce cad drawings for you? I can do that. I charge £35 per hour and the set could take 3 weeks. Oh, and the printed patterns for the two GNR coaches I did earlier this year cost over £500.

 

By and large I think that overcoming your lack of confidence and learning how to solder brass would not only be very much cheaper but give you a whole lot more satisfaction.

[rue_d_etropal]

I always cringe when someones suggests getting skilled up to solder kits . It is not that easy, and I know my abilities and would not even try, if you don't have the skill. Everyone has different skills, and sometimes being pushed to do something one way pus you off model railways. Seen it happen.

Now 3D CAD is not that difficult, but then I have an IT background and was recommended software which suits me. I have tried other packages over the years but none of them suited me. Odd given I have good 3 D skills visually, ad as a mathematicial understand and like geometry. I enjoy doing it, and if it is a model I want and I can find good scale drawings I will have a go, especially as I am working on a British HO project. Without 3D printing this project would not have started, but I could work in virtually any scale.

[Knuckles]

I didn't know how to solder kits together, but Tony Wright in the Right Track DVD series sorted that.

 

For brass or nickel silver I mostly use Carrs 145 solder, Carrs Green Flux and about 350+c heat. As long as you scratch up the brass so it isn't overly dirty I find it an absolute pleasure to do. Way easier than glueing things together even. I have a vid on it on my YouTube channel if it helps.

 

I use DCC Concepts No Clean Flux for steel and electrical soldering. It doesn't flow quite as well as the green but it does flow good and I even use it for brass sometimes.

[L49]

I always cringe when someones suggests getting skilled up to solder kits . It is not that easy, and I know my abilities and would not even try, if you don't have the skill. Everyone has different skills, and sometimes being pushed to do something one way pus you off model railways. Seen it happen.

Now 3D CAD is not that difficult, but then I have an IT background and was recommended software which suits me. I have tried other packages over the years but none of them suited me. Odd given I have good 3 D skills visually, ad as a mathematicial understand and like geometry. I enjoy doing it, and if it is a model I want and I can find good scale drawings I will have a go, especially as I am working on a British HO project. Without 3D printing this project would not have started, but I could work in virtually any scale.

 

I have to take the opposite view. If we all stuck within our well defined and well learned comfort zones, then none of us would ever be able to develop new skills, or find a continuing sense of achievement in our hobby.

 

The problem comes when we put undue pressure on ourselves from the start rather than accepting that our first efforts will probably be wasted, and recognising them as part of the learning process.

 

My background was very much in all things plasticard, but trying to find ways to improve on the finish of buildings led me into learning 2d design software, and moving into printed card, while trying to improve my loco fleet involved having to learn working in brass. Both learning process then helped me to get into producing artwork for brass etching, and ultimately to learning Sketchup, and having a go at 3d design.

 

You would not believe how many times it all went wrong over the last 20 or so years, or the number of buildings/coaches/locos which have made it into the bin (including,if I am honest, at least one etched loco kit). I know that messing up a brass kit is an expensive way to learn, but there is nothing to stop you from learning the basics with some odd bits of scrap or brass section just to learn the technique, before having a go at a full kit: With hindsight, I wish I had.

 

The most important thing is to not put pressure on yourself to get it right first time, and to enjoy!

[John Tomlinson]

I'm not at all sure the moulds for most of these coaches are worn out. The problem, which has been discussed on the Forum elsewhere at length, is that the current owner, the proprietor of Coopercraft, hasn't managed to buy a moulding machine to facilitate production. He does in fact still appear at some shows and has some product to sell. Whether full production will ever occur is another matter however.

 

I'd fully endorse the sentiments in the last two posts, you only learn a skill by having a go, and probably making a bit of a mess to start with! Sorry Palace Gates, but soldering up etched brass sides isn't a skill "well beyond ordinary mortals", it really isn't, but you are going to have to practice a bit, perhaps watch some DVD's as tuition, and not expect to be master of your craft from the off. I've now turned 60, still sometimes muck things up, be it soldering, glueing or airbrushing, but the only way I've got anywhere with any of these is to keep persevering until the penny drops. That's really what a hobby such as ours is all about IMHO.

 

John.

[rue_d_etropal]

If all it took was learning and practicing then we could all be skilled brain surgeons, but it is not that simple. The way each of us uses things is different, our dxterity varies, as does how we interact sight and touch. I have learned loads of new skills, pushed myself in many different directions, but I can not handle a soldering iron that well. I have soldered loads of wires to rails, tried various types of irons, and only do it because I have to. I don't enjoy it, and certainly would not want to play around with flux type chemicals.

I know my limits, I still enjoy a challenge, but I will not carry on when I know I can not.

Having said that, I can work in a mess, and when things start going wrong, I don't panic and just try to sort it out. I know many who can't even start if there is a mess, and go to pieces when there is a problem. I will always look for another way, whereas others will dogedly continue on the same path. I tend to get results, when others fail.

Some will religiously follow instructions wheras I tend to use them as a guideline, and often change things. Unfortunately I come across too many sets of instructions, which leave so much out, assuming the person reading them knows what to do. All documentation should be checked by someone else, as it is too easy to assume. If that is not possinle, put it to one side, and come back to read it in the future. It is amazing what you notice on the reread. One reason I never like reading my own letters or articles in magazines, and sometimes is why some mis-interprer what I am saying.

 

I will also add that I am not a perfectionist, but will try to get everything to fit, and work. I have fun, I am happy, and I usually get to the end, assuming I have not been tempted to try something else on the way.

Far too many look upon manufacture as easy, not appreciating the treadwheel they are stepping onto.Instead of being in charge, they are just another part of the machine, and when one part of the machine fails then nothing works.For all the effort and money some have pumped into manufacturing some items for the hobby, in particular kits, then assuming people still want those items,then you have to continue, or find someone else to do it. I hope there is a future for the kits Cooper craft have, and if they had not taken them, they would likely hae been lost completely. Fortunately, assuming the moulds are OK, and are kept in good condition, they could be used in the future again. Look at many of the plastic kits around, eg Airfix/Dapol some of which have been around for over 50 years. Some other kits have been around for even longer.Although design of some older kits is not as good as today, it tends to be quality of the plastic that makes a difference. There is also a trend these days to add too much,when most are happy with a basic kit. Unklike military modellers railway modellers build kits to use, and in most cases the easier the better.

[Dominion]

Palace Gates, 

Have a browse through the string on using a Silhouette Cameo cutter.

There are some people on here doing very clever things in plasticard with the cutter, including paneled coach sides.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/79025-a-guide-to-using-the-silhouette-cameo-cutter/

 

I tried to paste a link But suspect it is not the correct way.

 

Tom

[Knuckles]

I'd like to add that experience soldering droppers to rails and soldering kits is different in ways.

 

If you struggle soldering droppers to rails do not asume kits are harder.

 

Why?

 

Because half the time the solder we use is crap.

 

Some electrical solder is a pain to use, for once it has melted some types don't like to remelt properly and you end up with a Matt Metal Crumble. Even turning the iron up to 400c doesn't seem to fix naff solder.

 

The other thing to bear in mind is that the technique of electrical soldering is usually different to kit soldering.

 

I use electrical solder for wiring but have about given up on 'normal' el cheapo and will next try out proper solder that contains lead. Stuff H&S, it's not like I'm eating it.

 

Also I have on several occasions used 145 solder for electrical wiring.

 

Why?

 

Loads easier - see above post.

 

Negatives?

 

Well, maybe there is nore resistance and maybe to much current will melt it, I don't know. So far I have had no issues.

 

Being a lower melting point it may be a weaker joint technically but I don't make a habit of constantly tugging the wires. Once wired you leave them be.

 

Also I use DCC Concepts No Clean Flux when doing electrics because the solder that has flux in it seems to almost be a 1 time attempt so I don't trust it.

 

I'm no soldering expert, just sharing my experiences.

 

Kit soldering and electrical soldering are not the same...usually.

[Palace Gates]

Thanks for all the insights & opinions. Soldering it is then!

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Soldering isn't as difficult as it sounds Knuckles has said the Tony Wrights video or dvd, is certainly a help and quite a few of those right track videos are on YouTube.
I have on my channel a short video showing some soldering on brass, so there's enough info out there to help.

[Knuckles]

I'd also like to add I have become a convert to Carrs Speedy Solder.

 

It says it is for electrics and general use and boy is it hyper easy to use. Again a bit of DCC Concepts Sapphire No Clean Flux and we are laughing.