Tove Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 Oh well, plan B Brian.....fancy an LMS triple one instead?! JF i can do plan B Jon, .......... as a one ground signal is the same as another to me..!! ( well unless there round or have miniture arm`s of course!) Brian. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tove Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) Jon does this picture help any in this link?. http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-groundsigs.html It`s at the bottom of the page; GWR triple disc at Morris Cowley, C1978 front and back views, with sqaure lamp cases. Brian. Edited January 14, 2017 by Tove Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 Jon does this picture help any in this link?. http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-groundsigs.html It`s at the bottom of the page; GWR triple disc at Morris Cowley, C1978 front and back views, with sqaure lamp cases. Brian. It does thanks! That's the cast type triple as Mike explained but there's no examples of the later tubular type on the page. I could do an approximation of a cast one if my MSE castings can be modified! .I'll have a look tonight when I get home from work.. JF 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 14, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2017 Jon does this picture help any in this link?. http://www.gwr.org.uk/no-groundsigs.html It`s at the bottom of the page; GWR triple disc at Morris Cowley, C1978 front and back views, with sqaure lamp cases. Brian. From every example I've seen, plus the one in Reading stores that is what seems to have been the 'standard' casting for a GWR triple arm ground disc - regrettably I haven't got a photo of one. Incidentally there is an error in one set of captions on that page in respect of the disc at Croes Newydd which is definitely not a 'distant' ground disc (especially as it's right by a point end) but is just a very mucky standard early pattern independent signal with the equally standard 1911 pattern enamelled half disc added on the front) and showing a white light in the 'on' position. The only 'distants' I am aware of the GWR ever providing for ground discs were Backing Signals with distant 'notches' cut in the arm and they seem to have been very rare indeed (alas) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Well here's my take on the tubular post GW/BR(W) ground signal. It probably looks grey but its post is in silver and black. As usual, under the lights indoors my camera can't seem to record a red lamp.... Got a new toy to play with too! I can now produce discs of various sizes in sheet brass, so ground signals and weights for weight bars come to mind amongst other things. The nice thing about it is it requires the use of a hammer. The even nicer thing is I got it at a discount 'cause the handle was broken (doesn't affect the working of it!) Meanwhile, I thought these 3mm x 2mm SMD LEDs were quite small but they are now too big to fit in a round section ground signal lampcase. So let's try these they are less than 1mm wide . Much fun was had with a soldering iron and sticky tape to hold the LED down... To insulate the LED from the inside of what will be a brass lampcase a bit of heatshrink with a little slot cut out was used. Wonder if theres such a thing as clear heatshrink? and after that it still works! (3volts plus 1k resistor to protect it).. More soon if these little fellas don't drive me mad... JF Edited January 20, 2017 by Jon Fitness 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted January 20, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2017 Incidentally there is an error in one set of captions on that page in respect of the disc at Croes Newydd which is definitely not a 'distant' ground disc (especially as it's right by a point end) but is just a very mucky standard early pattern independent signal with the equally standard 1911 pattern enamelled half disc added on the front) and showing a white light in the 'on' position. The only 'distants' I am aware of the GWR ever providing for ground discs were Backing Signals with distant 'notches' cut in the arm and they seem to have been very rare indeed (alas) My photos (with permission) but not my captions (which have been corrected now I think) ! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Freeman Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Well here's my take on the tubular post GW/BR(W) ground signal. It probably looks grey but its post is in silver and black. As usual, under the lights indoors my camera can't seem to record a red lamp.... IMG_5373.JPGIMG_5374.JPGIMG_5375.JPGIMG_5377.JPG Got a new toy to play with too! I can now produce discs of various sizes in sheet brass, so ground signals and weights for weight bars come to mind amongst other things. The nice thing about it is it requires the use of a hammer. The even nicer thing is I got it at a discount 'cause the handle was broken (doesn't affect the working of it!) IMG_5378.JPG Meanwhile, I thought these 3mm x 2mm SMD LEDs were quite small but they are now too big to fit in a round section ground signal lampcase. IMG_5364.JPG So let's try these they are less than 1mm wide . Much fun was had with a soldering iron and sticky tape to hold the LED down... IMG_5365.JPGIMG_5368.JPGIMG_5369.JPG To insulate the LED from the inside of what will be a brass lampcase a bit of heatshrink with a little slot cut out was used. Wonder if theres such a thing as clear heatshrink? IMG_5370.JPG and after that it still works! (3volts plus 1k resistor to protect it).. IMG_5372.JPG More soon if these little fellas don't drive me mad... JF Hi, A coating of superglue usually works as insulation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 Jon, Clear heatshrink exists. I have used it at work, but that was in Poland, (where the purchase team bought it, presumably from Polish suppliers, by speaking Polish...) and I have not the slightest idea where to buy it here, assuming you've tried the usual suspects (RS, CPC, Farnell, Maplin, and others) It probably doesn't help to know that it's called "scrumphslauch" (or something very similar) in German Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 (edited) Hi, A coating of superglue usually works as insulation. Thanks, I'll try that out! Jon, Clear heatshrink exists. I have used it at work, but that was in Poland, (where the purchase team bought it, presumably from Polish suppliers, by speaking Polish...) and I have not the slightest idea where to buy it here, assuming you've tried the usual suspects (RS, CPC, Farnell, Maplin, and others) It probably doesn't help to know that it's called "scrumphslauch" (or something very similar) in German Best Simon Sounds delicious! I'll have a browse, I'm sure if it's out there it'll be found! Ta JF Edit...Found some/bought some! Edited January 21, 2017 by Jon Fitness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted January 20, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2017 Hi Jon, I hope the answer to your LED problem is in the post. Steve. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Huw Griffiths Posted January 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2017 (edited) Jon, Clear heatshrink exists. I have used it at work, but that was in Poland, (where the purchase team bought it, presumably from Polish suppliers, by speaking Polish...) and I have not the slightest idea where to buy it here, assuming you've tried the usual suspects (RS, CPC, Farnell, Maplin, and others) Component Shop also sell it - I've seen it on their stand at some model engineering shows. I've only dealt with them at shows - but I think their website is something like <componentshop.co.uk>. I hope this helps, Huw. Edited January 21, 2017 by Huw Griffiths 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) Sometimes the smallest signals can produce the largest challenges hence the rather large gap since the last post! The GWR triple disc was going to be wrong as a tubular example so it was altered to what turned out to be only an approximation of a cast post version. The post is square brass tube and the lamp cases from a smaller section with recesses hacked out of the back for LEDs. The weights on the bars are punched from sheet with my new disc puncher which puts a nice slightly rounded edge on them. The way I have designed it all meant that I had to totally build it to test it, then to paint it meant I simply had to spray the entire thing fully built! Some extensive masking was required to allow me to spray the white on the discs and I still managed to disturb a bit of the paint removing the tape. Rest assured it still all works and by the time you read this it should all be finished. Next up will be some assorted LMS/BR(M) bracket signals... A job I'm really not looking forward to is sorting out a problem with my website. I usually make the changes in Windows front page then use my ACE FTP to upload the changes. Unfortunately the FTP thinks my longstanding and completely unchanged password is now wrong. It's that long since I updated either program or had anything to do with my website host that I really wouldn't know where to start or who to speak to, to regain access to my website. Until I can work this out it will still be wishing everyone a Merry Xmas etc! More soon JF Edit.. to actually finish what I was grumbling about! Edited February 12, 2017 by Jon Fitness 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted February 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2017 Effort to Weight ratio is horrendous on multiple Ground Signals. Well done Jon, they look great. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jintyman Posted February 12, 2017 Share Posted February 12, 2017 Sometimes the smallest signals can produce the largest challenges hence the rather large gap since the last post! IMG_5527.JPGIMG_5530.JPGIMG_5531.JPGIMG_5532.JPGIMG_5534.JPGIMG_5538.JPGIMG_5540.JPGIMG_5541.JPG The GWR triple disc was going to be wrong as a tubular example so it was altered to what turned out to be only an approximation of a cast post version. The post is square brass tube and the lamp cases from a smaller section with recesses hacked out of the back for LEDs. The weights on the bars are punched from sheet with my new disc puncher which puts a nice slightly rounded edge on them. The way I have designed it all meant that I had to totally build it to test it, then to paint it meant I simply had to spray the entire thing fully built! Some extensive masking was required to allow me to spray the white on the discs and I still managed to disturb a bit of the paint removing the tape. Rest assured it still all works and by the time you read this it should all be finished. Next up will be some assorted LMS/BR(M) bracket signals... IMG_5546.JPG Very nice Jon, I will need a triple like that at some point. I do like those little perrishers, I have quite a few SMD's here but not quite that small. I did get some pre-wired SMD LED's from Express Models, I think it was, and they were minute like your little friends, but the cable was wax coated and very unobtrusive at about a third of the size of a decoder wire. I'll have a root around and try and take a picture of one for you, as they were quite reasonable in cost. Jinty Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 (edited) Effort to Weight ratio is horrendous on multiple Ground Signals. Well done Jon, they look great. Steve. Thanks Steve, totally agree with the above sentiment but some seem worse than others JF Edited February 12, 2017 by Jon Fitness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 12, 2017 Author Share Posted February 12, 2017 Very nice Jon, I will need a triple like that at some point. I do like those little perrishers, I have quite a few SMD's here but not quite that small. I did get some pre-wired SMD LED's from Express Models, I think it was, and they were minute like your little friends, but the cable was wax coated and very unobtrusive at about a third of the size of a decoder wire. I'll have a root around and try and take a picture of one for you, as they were quite reasonable in cost. Jinty Et Tu Jinty? It may be a while before I try another one! I ended up using the small square LEDs in the end as the lamp cases were the square type. I'll keep the really tiny ones for the round lamp case ones. I bought some very nice hollow 3D printed shunt signal lamp cases from Modelu at Bristol so when I get round to doing some more single/tubular post G/S' they'll be just the job. Cheers JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 12, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 12, 2017 Sometimes the smallest signals can produce the largest challenges hence the rather large gap since the last post! IMG_5527.JPGIMG_5530.JPGIMG_5531.JPGIMG_5532.JPGIMG_5534.JPGIMG_5538.JPGIMG_5540.JPGIMG_5541.JPG The GWR triple disc was going to be wrong as a tubular example so it was altered to what turned out to be only an approximation of a cast post version. The post is square brass tube and the lamp cases from a smaller section with recesses hacked out of the back for LEDs. The weights on the bars are punched from sheet with my new disc puncher which puts a nice slightly rounded edge on them. The way I have designed it all meant that I had to totally build it to test it, then to paint it meant I simply had to spray the entire thing fully built! Some extensive masking was required to allow me to spray the white on the discs and I still managed to disturb a bit of the paint removing the tape. Rest assured it still all works and by the time you read this it should all be finished. Next up will be some assorted LMS/BR(M) bracket signals... IMG_5546.JPG A job I'm really not looking forward to is sorting out a problem with my website. I usually make the changes in Windows front page then use my ACE FTP to upload the changes. Unfortunately the FTP thinks my longstanding and completely unchanged password is now wrong. It's that long since I updated either program or had anything to do with my website host that I really wouldn't know where to start or who to speak to, to regain access to my website. Until I can work this out it will still be wishing everyone a Merry Xmas etc! More soon JF Edit.. to actually finish what I was grumbling about! That looks most impressive Jon. i would think the original, cast, 'post' would be nigh impossible to model in the smaller scales as it was a complicated looking casting which was partly hollow plus it had slots (as in let the light through from side to side) in it as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 That looks most impressive Jon. i would think the original, cast, 'post' would be nigh impossible to model in the smaller scales as it was a complicated looking casting which was partly hollow plus it had slots (as in let the light through from side to side) in it as well. Thanks Mike, especially for filling in my knowledge gap about GWR ground signals! Anyway here is the finished article firstly on the bench showing the LEDs lit. I'm sure there must be a formula for working out the correct size resistor for 3 SMD LEDs connected in paralell but for now a 300 ohm seems to be about right on 12volts. and out in the sun...No weathering as I'll let Brian blend things in on his layout when he's installed them! I'll get a video of it online in a few minutes when yootoob has finished cooking it...! More soon JF 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 And here's a little video of the ground signal Seems to work ok but I think one of the green "glasses" has moved .. JF 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Jon, I believe that the received wisdom is to have a single resistor per LED. I'm not sure exactly why, but I have a feeling it's something to do with tolerances. I suspect that the LEDs will be more evenly illuminated if they have their own resistors. That said, I don't think you have a problem! Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 13, 2017 Author Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) Jon, I believe that the received wisdom is to have a single resistor per LED. I'm not sure exactly why, but I have a feeling it's something to do with tolerances. I suspect that the LEDs will be more evenly illuminated if they have their own resistors. That said, I don't think you have a problem! Best Simon Good point! I am sure that you are right with the separate resistors for each LED. I made quite a few (ugh) colour lights back in my 4mm days and each colour needed a separate and different value resistor. Most signals I build, rather than trying to join a mass of wires in the middle of the structure I take all the wires down the post and common them to one resistor, usually 1kohm. Seems a good reason to try the separate resistors on the next one. I think I have some SMD resistors to keep the size down so as long as they can cope with the current, should be OK Cheers JF Edited to change LED to resistor so it at least looks a little more like I know what I'm talking about! Edited February 14, 2017 by Jon Fitness Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tove Posted February 13, 2017 Share Posted February 13, 2017 Superb work Jon... This and the other signals you`ve built for me,are going to really set the layout off once i get back to starting work on it again. What a lucky boy i am..!! Cheers, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Back to the LMS/BR(M) types for now! I've been a bit lax with the pics for these as I've been busy with all sorts so not much to show.! I know I said I wouldn't do any more of these welded stem ones as I struggle to get them to stay straight on the edges but I have (yet another) cunning plan to strengthen them...more of which anon. A couple of offset 2 doll tubular brackets... and the dolls for them, all ready to fit. More soon JF 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 Jon, You can put the resistors in the feeds, so a common return is still an option Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 17, 2017 Author Share Posted February 17, 2017 Jon, You can put the resistors in the feeds, so a common return is still an option Best Simon Thanks Simon. I'll make up a little board with some SMD resistors on and see how I go. JF 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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