Scratch-built card and styrene structures (based on real buildings around London Bridge)

[grahame]

An afternoon of cutting and gluing and thigs have progressed a bit more:

 

 

 

This is very much hidden from view, being close to the far side of the viaduct, so details are very basic and will be simply painted.

 

G. 

[grahame]

It's the west side bridge (over Borough High Street) abutment - well, half of it as an alley runs through the middle of it - with the east side abutment being the curved shop frontage structure. The steps down are to the Boro market and the other set of stairs (not yet made) lead down to Southwark cathedral. The bulge used accommodate a signal box - now long gone. Very little will be seen of the stairs as in this mock up view. The track deck and bridge curved main side girder is just temporarily cut from cardboard. The steel rule and pliers are for weight.

 

 

Things are getting tricky now as they are starting to impact the track alignment and need to accurately dovetail together. The sloping angled roads don't help much either.

 

G.

[grahame]

The abutment on the other (east) side of the road from under the rails currently looks like this. It is still quite run down and probably hasn't changed a lot in quarter of a century apart from the coming and going of various businesses - William Hill bookies and the London Bridge kebab bar:

 

 

I've extended the wall on the model with the curved shop frontage to complete it's length. And made an inset road section which clips in place. Here's how it looks with the west side abutment in better view (than the previous pics) and the temporary cardboard track deck and curved top side girder:

 

 

G

Edited November 30, 2018 by grahame

[grahame]

Here's a rough comparison - which reveals still a lot of work to do and luckily is a view that won't be able to be seen even when completed:

 

 

 

G/

 

 

[grahame]

My plan is to make the triangular block that includes the curved shop front and abutments for both the main bridges as one structure. Here's a rough sketch plan of how it sits (the shaded section) :

 

 

Guildable Manor Street is now covered by the new additional bridge/viaduct as part of Thameslink 2000 but I won't be including that. I've a few pics of how Guildable Manor Street looked prior to all the re-building. As this side will be facing the viewing position I'll need to model the details which look very interesting. The drawback is that it is on a slope:

 

 

Here's a later pic just as the building work started of the west abutment for the east bridge that leads in to the station looking down Guildable Manor Street to the left and Railway Approach to the right:

 

 

G

 

 

 

[Lecorbusier]

Popped into the studies library today and found these images ... don't know if they are at all useful?

[grahame]

Popped into the studies library today and found these images ... don't know if they are at all useful?LB1.jpgLB2.jpgLB3 copy.jpgLB4.jpgLB5.jpgLB6.jpgLB7.jpg

 

Excellent. Certainly very useful.

 

Many thanks - some of those are wonderfully evocative and memorable: The sate of the pavement in Duke Street Hill and bushes; the Wallace Arnold coach; the Campari and other ad signs (who were Brockhouse?); the sweeping curved and shiny travel centre/ticket office frontage: the staff agency called Aardvark in Guildable Manor Street (must be ripped off from the old Goons joke - 'ard work [aardvark] never hurt anyone); the rolling stock display/open day (I went to the one at Cannon Street in 1986 with a shuttle to LB but presumably that is the 1991 LB one); and so on.

 

Interesting the lack of road lines, controlled pedestrian crossings and drop kerbs . . . .

 

G.

[grahame]

A little progress this morning on making the other part of the west side abutment. There's nothing of pretty finished modelling - much is structural card engineering that wont be seen - but here's a pic showing the bridge over Boro High St with the deck and bridge sides just temporary bits and pieces rested in place to help test alignments and so on:

 

 

After some lunch and football focus I need to pop out for some more Halfords primer.

 

G.

 

 

[chaz]

One reason you might like to think about for including detail work that will later be invisible to a viewer may well be that it might not be invisible to a compact camera. On my layout (Dock Green) I sometimes place a camera in a position where the resultant picture is of an angle impossible even to a contortionist (although there is frequent evidence that spiders are enjoying these viewpoints!).  I am then left regretting compromises that I made during the building of the layout (crude unprototypical structures, unpainted bits etc). 

 

 

Arg!  Roof structure should be light girder work, not plywood and foam board. I live with this compromise and many others as they are not at all obvious to the viewer. You might decide to do rather better.

 

Chaz

 

 

[phil_sutters]

Excellent. Certainly very useful.

 

Many thanks - some of those are wonderfully evocative and memorable: The sate of the pavement in Duke Street Hill and bushes; the Wallace Arnold coach; the Campari and other ad signs (who were Brockhouse?);

 

G.

  https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/J._Brockhouse_and_Co

[grahame]

One reason you might like to think about for including detail work that will later be invisible to a viewer may well be that it might not be invisible to a compact camera. On my layout (Dock Green) I sometimes place a camera in a position where the resultant picture is of an angle impossible even to a contortionist (although there is frequent evidence that spiders are enjoying these viewpoints!).  I am then left regretting compromises that I made during the building of the layout (crude unprototypical structures, unpainted bits etc). 

 

P1030264.jpg

 

Arg!  Roof structure should be light girder work, not plywood and foam board. I live with this compromise and many others as they are not at all obvious to the viewer. You might decide to do rather better.

 

Chaz

 

Yep, I always try and add some rough and ready basic detail and slap some paint on, even in places very unlikely to be seen as here (this view will not be possible):

 

 

And, of course, this being N/2mm scale things are small (the height under the bridges being around 1.5") making it difficult to see under or even to shove a small camera (assuming it was possible to reach). Plus the layout will be a based at home (not taken to exhibitions) so the few who get to see it will have to leave their 'phones outside and will be banned from peeking in such places. That's if it ever gets finished. 

 

G.

Edited December 2, 2018 by grahame

[chaz]

Yep, I always try and add some rough and ready basic detail and slap some paint on, even in places very unlikely to be seen as here (this view will not be possible):

 

DSC_7194.JPG

 

And, of course, this being N/2mm scale things are small (the height under the bridges being around 1.5") making it difficult to see under or even to shove a small camera (assuming it was possible to reach). Plus the layout will be a based at home (not taken to exhibitions) so the few who get to see it will have to leave their 'phones outside and will be banned from peeking in such places. That's if it ever gets finished. 

 

G.

 

 

Not taken to exhibitions? How disappointing! I would have loved to see this layout in the flesh. Your attention to the detail of real buildings is unusual - certainly I don't recall seeing a layout that faithfully represents a recent urban landscape. I suppose we must settle for your photographs - keep 'em coming!

 

Chaz

[grahame]

Not taken to exhibitions? How disappointing! I would have loved to see this layout in the flesh. Your attention to the detail of real buildings is unusual - certainly I don't recall seeing a layout that faithfully represents a recent urban landscape. I suppose we must settle for your photographs - keep 'em coming!

 

 

I'm afraid age and a failing body means I've given up exhibiting. All that faffing around, lugging heavy things up and down stairs, getting home late at night and so on . . . Plus I don't envisage getting this layout finished for a few years yet which will mean I'll be even older and even less inclined. There's masses to do with modelling an urban scene - even just for the roads in the pic below: street lights, railings, direction signs, traffic lights, advertising, weathering, and so on. 

 

But here's another pic (as requested) showing the rear view of the layout looking at the back of the bridges (the girders are just temporary bits of cardboard) and taken from a high(ish) level from what would be behind the backscene board. And I'll try and keep more posted in the future. 

 

 

G.

[chaz]

I'm afraid age and a failing body means I've given up exhibiting. All that faffing around, lugging heavy things up and down stairs, getting home late at night and so on . . . Plus I don't envisage getting this layout finished for a few years yet which will mean I'll be even older and even less inclined. There's masses to do with modelling an urban scene - even just for the roads in the pic below: street lights, railings, direction signs, traffic lights, advertising, weathering, and so on. 

 

 

 

One of the things that fascinates me about your modelling is the way that you deal with all those small changes in ground level, little inclines, steps between etc. I must admit I would find all that bewildering, I wouldn't know where to start. But it is a great strength of what you do and makes for an utterly convincing depiction of an urban landscape.  Terrific!

 

I sympathise with your feelings about exhibiting - at Brighton we had to carry the layout up stairs to the first floor, and this coming weekend we have to drive from Eastleigh to Peterborough (and back). Fortunately two of us will spell the driving so it shouldn't be too much of a challenge. Although I usually think it's worth the work I have on occasion wondered how much longer the team can be persuaded to join me.

 

Chaz

[grahame]

 

One of the things that fascinates me about your modelling is the way that you deal with all those small changes in ground level, little inclines, steps between etc. I must admit I would find all that bewildering, I wouldn't know where to start. But it is a great strength of what you do and makes for an utterly convincing depiction of an urban landscape.  Terrific!

 

 

Thanks. 

 

I think it is important to try and capture various level and slopes when building a layout. It is rare to find a perfectly flat area to build a railway in real life but many layouts seem to be located on a snooker table flat smooth surface. However, particularly for urban locations, it is not easy to replicate changes in land level.

 

One issue is that in trying to replicate a real location but incorporate some compression it can lead to problems. It is relatively easy to shorten/reduce things in length (the horizontal plane) but heights (the vertical plane) can't be reduced so readily. Doorways, bridge clearances and building heights have a limit to the amount of reduction you can apply otherwise they look ridiculous and become unworkable. When reducing the horizonal by more then the vertical (as a percentage) the slopes then become rather much steeper than the real ones and more difficult to replicate and accommodate.

 

However, various levels can and do add interest (and realism) to a layout. One trick worth considering when designing a layout is to increase the land form level gradually from front to back. This adds height, impact and interest to the view as well as helping frame the layout. Alternatively (or additionally) is to increase height towards the back by locating taller buildings at the rear. Of course that is easier when designing a freelance layout but for one based on a real place you are rather stuck with how things are. I will have two tower blocks relatively near the front but at least that will help break up the view of the long level viaduct structure and give something for trains to run behind and appear from.

 

G  

[chaz]

Thanks. 

 

I think it is important to try and capture various level and slopes when building a layout. It is rare to find a perfectly flat area to build a railway in real life but many layouts seem to be located on a snooker table flat smooth surface. However, particularly for urban locations, it is not easy to replicate changes in land level.

 

One issue is that in trying to replicate a real location but incorporate some compression it can lead to problems. It is relatively easy to shorten/reduce things in length (the horizontal plane) but heights (the vertical plane) can't be reduced so readily. Doorways, bridge clearances and building heights have a limit to the amount of reduction you can apply otherwise they look ridiculous and become unworkable. When reducing the horizonal by more then the vertical (as a percentage) the slopes then become rather much steeper than the real ones and more difficult to replicate and accommodate.

 

However, various levels can and do add interest (and realism) to a layout. One trick worth considering when designing a layout is to increase the land form level gradually from front to back. This adds height, impact and interest to the view as well as helping frame the layout. Alternatively (or additionally) is to increase height towards the back by locating taller buildings at the rear. Of course that is easier when designing a freelance layout but for one based on a real place you are rather stuck with how things are. I will have two tower blocks relatively near the front but at least that will help break up the view of the long level viaduct structure and give something for trains to run behind and appear from.

 

G  

 

 

I like the idea of features at the front of the layout (in your case tower blocks, on my FVRR it's trees) which the trains run behind and are glimpsed in between. I have also used a slope down towards the front to make a narrow baseboard look wider. Both ploys have a lot of value.

 

Chaz

[grahame]

Pressing on, I now feel I can tackle the shop fronts in Guildable Manor Street which is something I'm sure I will enjoy. It will effectively complete the triangular structure that supports the ends of two bridges. I've sketched up my rough plan to fit and will make it as one long curved piece:

 

 

But first, when I've finished this pot of tea, I need to pop out to the model shop.

 

G.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I had not looked in at this thread for a while. More and more amazing.

 

Nostalgic for me as I worked in that part of London for a time.

[grahame]

I've been thinking through the build as it might be a little tricky. There are two main, almost parallel 'walls' - the railway viaduct support and the shops façade which is a little proud of that. Both curve and both will need to be constructed separately but then joined to form one structure. I've been looking though my collection of pics to get a good understanding of the overall shape and look. One shows that the upper end corner used to be a little ticket shop:

 

 

As the train above appears to be a Networker in NSE livery I'm going to include the ticket shop - a nice little modelling challenge.

 

I've started by cutting two rectangles of mountboard card ready to mark them up and add details. I'll cut the window and door apertures from the shop front before trying to join the two. And I'll not include the viaduct parapet wall in the support structure as it is brick. I'll make that from embossed plasticard to fit later as it will need to follow the track bed (it'll be easier to add it to the track bed than try to cut the track bed from ply) to fit (although I'll probably include the bridge abutment piers made from mountboard as the one at the lower end is already made that way):

 

 

G.

[Siberian Snooper]

Not sure if it's me or the photo, but the shop projections appear to be a series of flats, which would allow windows etc. to be flat.

[grahame]

Not sure if it's me or the photo, but the shop projections appear to be a series of flats, which would allow windows etc. to be flat.

 

Yep, from the reference pics I've acquired, each shop unit has a flat frontage, each at an angle to the next, with just the blue ticket office shop having a curved glass window on the corner.

 

I've been hacking away on that basis and have got so far:

 

 

You can see the white viaduct wall (that the track bed will sit on) behind the grey shop facades. The fronts don't extend down to the same level as there is the sloping pavement (and road) to go under them at the level they are cut. Next is to add some fine details.  

 

G.

[Lecorbusier]

You can see the white viaduct wall (that the track bed will sit on) behind the grey shop facades. 

This is something that I am curious about. How will the track bed work on all of this from the standpoint of a good base and reliability of running?

[grahame]

This is something that I am curious about. How will the track bed work on all of this from the standpoint of a good base and reliability of running?

 

The track bed will be cut from plywood and supported on wooden risers located inside the cardboard decorative walls. 

 

G.

[grahame]

A little more progress this afternoon. The beige card strip is just to show where the viaduct parapet wall will run. The little blue curved ticket shop will cover the mess at the right hand corner/end:

 

 

 

 

G, 

[Siberian Snooper]

Excellent work, at this rate you will have it finished by bedtime!