'New Colletts from Old'

[HowardGWR]

 

Had to look that up on the VCT's site (I know them by number more than by diagram).  Sorry about that 

5085 is in **relatively** good condition considering. That said it has a bulge in the corridor side caused by a cracked door pillar, a worrying rotten patch in the corridor & the state of the cant rail is unknown (Collett got the gutters seriously wrong on all his coach designs until the introduction of the large-window stock). Internally it's quite complete - most partitions are still in & there's a fair amount of interior trim despite the compartments being pretty gutted. It's a viable, but long-term restoration.

 

Keep an eye on the SVRA website - they're forging ahead with E.132 6045 at the moment:— http://www.gw-svr-a.org.uk/6045.html

 

I do.  Mick Haynes is an old work colleague and they are doing amazing carpentry work.

 

 

Suggest you book on Castle's next RMWeb Didcot tour... such things could well be arranged (provided we can find the step ladder), otherwise it's pot luck that someone's around who's sufficiently un-busy to accommodate.  I don't know anything about this, would be interested

 

 

In theory yes, but in practice probably not. I'm hoping to pop down later this week, but all my attention will be on applying a pair of gold leaf roundels to 1289 (condensation permitting), finishing off a batch of destination boards for the trailers & maybe doing some colouring-in on Shannon. After that I'll most likely be on winter recess until Feb/March next year – 15 feet of ash on top of a swamp is no fun at all in winter.

 

However... According to drawing 77747 of Feb 1926, a K.38 is:—

 

8' 6" over the bottom edge of the body panels,  Great, that's what I needed but I realise I 'mismeasured' now -will tell all in future post whoops  

9' 0" over the waist (and also stepboards),

9' 5-3/4" over handles, and

8' 11-1/4" over cornice (gutter) plates.

 

Those dimensions are repeated in 75495 (E.129 - 3/1925) and 81080 (E.127 7/1926), so I'd take them as being standard for the regular main-line BEs of the period. Cornish Riviera stock is rather different.

 

The only specific C&W funds are for the Super Saloons (9113 at present, then 2118, & 9112 last of all as it's the most complicated) & the Victorian Coach Project (290 & 975). I can see 3299 having a fund one day, but it won't be any time soon.

 

P.

See interleaved in red.  I was going to donate to one of the Super Saloons, so will increase that donation accordingly.  Many thanks Pete (K14). 

[K14]

Another post gone AWOL    F IT

 

2nd attempt -------- I'm replacing the roof tanks on several coaches does anyone know what thickness Plasticard would be good to do the job.

 

Off the top of my head I'd suggest 20thou with a 5thou overlay. The real thing has a top sheet of 1/8" plate & is packed off the roof by a frame that's around 1-1/2" to 2" deep (from memory). The top plate of the tank is attached to the tank itself by small rivets - approx 3/8" dia.

 

Interesting (about the shell vents).  Have you made measurements and what was the difference?  From sideways, they perhaps don't look fat enough.  From overhead they look OK though.   I wonder if they were painted a typical browny colour (Hornby has them all white) whether that could make a difference? 

 

It's a funny thing with models.  Sometimes an exact model looks wrong, especially to we older types.  It seems that in the past, we all got used to podgy white metal parts, (vents could be an example) and thus judge these matters differently.

Scaling a vent off a works G.A. (dangerous, I know), I get approx. 7.5" high by 6.5" across the bottom louvre as viewed end on. So about 3mm x 2 – 2.5mm in 4mm scale.

 

P.

[K14]

See interleaved in red.  I was going to donate to one of the Super Saloons, so will increase that donation accordingly.  Many thanks Pete (K14).

Many thanks in advance for that - RestExpress are doing well out of us at the moment (mainly for French Polish and neat ethanol), so any help is always welcomed.

 

Details of this year's Tour can be found here:— http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/110240-rmweb-tour-of-didcot-railway-centre-31st-july-2016/

And the 2015 thread is here:— http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/95102-rmweb-tour-of-didcot-railway-centre-26th-july-2015/

 

No idea if it'll happen next year (though I don't see why not if people are available to act as guides), but assuming it does it's a great opportunity to poke about bits of the site that aren't usually accessible.

 

With regard to Collet coach gutters, Wally Watson, late of this parish was on the coach restoration gang at the embrionic DVR and they used to use fibreglass in the gutters. The mat was cut so as to be invisible from platform levels and from further away is undetectable unless a long lens is used.

We've tried fibreglass in the past but found it wanting. As it's rigid (& coaches aren't) it tends to crack & leak causing all sorts of nastiness, These days we line gutters with flashband and lard copious amounts of Metalastic paint over it; Still not a permafix,but good for at least five years.

 

These days we're increasingly reverting to the more traditional solutions, like roof canvas - we've tried fibreglass (see above), roofing felt (doesn't look right & fails after a few years) and pvc lorry-style 'canvas' (pinholes with cinders, then leaks). A traditional unproofed canvas' lifespan ought to be measured in decades; I know of one that still has the patches from when it was converted from oil to gas lighting, & I suspect that the Dreadnought has only ever had one.

 

P.

[Welsh Yorkie]

I'm sure I'm not entering the spirit of this topic -and there is much to admire in the skills, tenacity and hard graft involved here - in saying this is a bit of 'If I wanted to go to Limerick, I wouldn't start here'.

 

Why not save a lot of time and effort in developing new Colletts from the new Hornby models? Some of them may just need sides being overlaid: the roof, ends, underframe, bogies, general profile and measurements are so much better than the Railroad versions. Should I get my coat now, or just admit to being a heathen?

[Prometheus]

For me at least, their relative scarcity and considerable cost are the disincentives against using Hornby's new Colletts. I have just bought an ancient custard-yellow Hornby Collett Comp for £6 to provide the carcass for a Comet sides Comp Bk. The cost - and the pleasure of conversion - are the clinchers for me !

 

Tony 

[81C]

Interesting (about the shell vents).  Have you made measurements and what was the difference?  From sideways, they perhaps don't look fat enough.  From overhead they look OK though.   I wonder if they were painted a typical browny colour (Hornby has them all white) whether that could make a difference? 

 

It's a funny thing with models.  Sometimes an exact model looks wrong, especially to we older types.  It seems that in the past, we all got used to podgy white metal parts, (vents could be an example) and thus judge these matters differently. 

Larry AKA coachmann mentioned it as to the actual size maybe K14 can help us on that one but they are clearly a lot smaller than every RTR or kit part I've seen but it's something for a later date all I'm interested at the moment is the coach sitting on the workbench and thanks to other members it is now sporting roof tanks. 

 

BTW coachmann builds coaches for a living and is highly regarded on this forum.

[Horsetan]

....BTW coachmann builds coaches for a living and is highly regarded on this forum.

 

So much so his name keeps getting dropped by a certain eBay trader....

[The Fatadder]

I'm sure I'm not entering the spirit of this topic -and there is much to admire in the skills, tenacity and hard graft involved here - in saying this is a bit of 'If I wanted to go to Limerick, I wouldn't start here'.

 

Why not save a lot of time and effort in developing new Colletts from the new Hornby models? Some of them may just need sides being overlaid: the roof, ends, underframe, bogies, general profile and measurements are so much better than the Railroad versions. Should I get my coat now, or just admit to being a heathen?

Give it a bit of time and I think a lot more will be using the new model, it just needs to fall a bit more. At the moment with the coaches costing circa 35 pounds the price to do a conversion on a Hornby Collett is about the same as doing a comet kit

[81C]

So much so his name keeps getting dropped by a certain eBay trader....

Are you on about Gosturd or a name similar.

[Horsetan]

Are you on about Gosturd or a name similar.

 

There could only be the one.....

[St Enodoc]

I'm sure I'm not entering the spirit of this topic -and there is much to admire in the skills, tenacity and hard graft involved here - in saying this is a bit of 'If I wanted to go to Limerick, I wouldn't start here'.

 

Why not save a lot of time and effort in developing new Colletts from the new Hornby models? Some of them may just need sides being overlaid: the roof, ends, underframe, bogies, general profile and measurements are so much better than the Railroad versions. Should I get my coat now, or just admit to being a heathen?

In a way I agree, but for a number of us recycling the old coaches is a better option than throwing them out.

[Horsetan]

In a way I agree, but for a number of us recycling the old coaches is a better option than throwing them out.

...and more importantly it keeps modelling skills alive.

[St Enodoc]

...and more importantly it keeps modelling skills alive.

Up to a point Lord Copper...

 

For me the most important thing is to be able to run trains that are reasonably representative of those that ran in Cornwall in the 1950s. In achieving that, the end justifies the means.

[81C]

I'm sure I'm not entering the spirit of this topic -and there is much to admire in the skills, tenacity and hard graft involved here - in saying this is a bit of 'If I wanted to go to Limerick, I wouldn't start here'.

 

Why not save a lot of time and effort in developing new Colletts from the new Hornby models? Some of them may just need sides being overlaid: the roof, ends, underframe, bogies, general profile and measurements are so much better than the Railroad versions. Should I get my coat now, or just admit to being a heathen?

I think the main factor is cost my refurb's are costing on average £10 to £15 for new sides and a bit of plasticard and the odd parts from Comet and I get pleasure out of doing them, the cheapest new model is £35 and that's if you can lay your hands on them I think that price alone would put most modellers off hacking them apart.

[Clearwater]

I suspect in 5 to 10 years' time there will be plenty on the newer collets available second hand that have got damaged, no longer required by their owners etc and the successor to this thread will be using them as base stock

 

For my part, I've inherited a fair number of older rtr coaches that are in poor condition. Why wouldn't I want to use those as startin points to make non rtr diagrammed and as 81c points out, the cost of foul up is minimised

 

David

[Edwardian]

I suspect in 5 to 10 years' time there will be plenty on the newer collets available second hand that have got damaged, no longer required by their owners etc and the successor to this thread will be using them as base stock

 

For my part, I've inherited a fair number of older rtr coaches that are in poor condition. Why wouldn't I want to use those as startin points to make non rtr diagrammed and as 81c points out, the cost of foul up is minimised

 

David

 

I, on the other hand, sold off a number of my old Colletts some years ago on Ebay!  

 

I think I have a pair of Comet E128 Brake Compo sides stored away somewhere.  It might be worth sticking them on a new Hornby Collett at some stage.

 

Aside from that, I think it will be, flat-enders, K40s and some more 70' stock.

[Clearwater]

I'm afraid I have the railway modeller hoarding gene and hate getting rid of things because "one day they might be useful!"

[Horsetan]

I, on the other hand, sold off a number of my old Colletts some years ago on Ebay! ....

 

Technically speaking, I still have three "old Colletts" (2 compos and a brake), but they are part of the commemorative Hornby "GWR150" train set which I've had since 1985. The set is still in its original box and hasn't been run since 1992.....

 

Hornby's RRP back then was £85 which, according to the BoE's inflation calculator widget, is equivalent to £232.31 today. £232 would just about  cover the cost of a P4 SLW Class 24 diesel.

[lofty1966]

I'm sure I'm not entering the spirit of this topic -and there is much to admire in the skills, tenacity and hard graft involved here - in saying this is a bit of 'If I wanted to go to Limerick, I wouldn't start here'.

 

Why not save a lot of time and effort in developing new Colletts from the new Hornby models? Some of them may just need sides being overlaid: the roof, ends, underframe, bogies, general profile and measurements are so much better than the Railroad versions. Should I get my coat now, or just admit to being a heathen?

Philistine! Tsk !

;-)

[HowardGWR]

I've got lots to tell about my project, will assemble photos for later, but meanwhile, may I prevail on K14 again please?  

 

The question is: what paints does Didcot use for:

 

GWR cream, GWR Brown?

 

On this wonderful site, we have been advised Rover Primula Cream and Rover Russet Brown.  I found this in the archive.

 

As these are in 300 ml spray cans from Halfords for £6.99, I am more than tempted to go down that route.  I can't paint for nuts, so a cheap solution is essential, as I may need several goes.

 

I hope K14 is still watching this thread, and will be grateful for his advice and also for the views of other colleagues.

 

BTW, I looked up the links to the RMweb Didcot tours.  How both jolly and useful they must have been, and I am sure the chance to learn from everyone on such a visit is priceless. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by HowardGWR

[Prometheus]

I don't find Rover Russet Brown at all convincing I'm afraid - it's on the walnut side of chocolate and fine for painting coach interiors but not for simulating GWR brown. On my coach I used Peugeot Cafe Noir. It's quite dark but not too purple [if you know what I mean] and when given a flash of Dullcote, matches Hornby's Hawksworths quite well. The photograph at post One shows it quite well. You can just see a poor shot of Russet Brown through the centre windows, too.

 

As for cream, I had Halfords make me up a can by matching the code from one of their swatches. Sadly they no longer offer the swatch-matching service though.

 

Tony

[St Enodoc]

I don't find Rover Russet Brown at all convincing I'm afraid - it's on the walnut side of chocolate and fine for painting coach interiors but not for simulating GWR brown. On my coach I used Peugeot Cafe Noir. It's quite dark but not too purple [if you know what I mean] and when given a flash of Dullcote, matches Hornby's Hawksworths quite well. The photograph at post One shows it quite well. You can just see a poor shot of Russet Brown through the centre windows, too.

 

As for cream, I had Halfords make me up a can by matching the code from one of their swatches. Sadly they no longer offer the swatch-matching service though.

 

Tony

When I lived in the UK I used Ford Sahara Beige for BR cream. I don't know if that would be any good for GWR cream though.

[K14]

The question is: what paints does Didcot use for:

 

GWR cream, GWR Brown?

Thereby hangs a tale... it's more what haven't we used Manders, Tekaloid & Mason's were all used, & in the late 90s we switched to Horace & Williamson's (Serene) of Burgess Hill as the Bluebell were getting good results with it, the SVR followed suit & all was well until the factory caught fire and they went bust.

 

We currently use T&R Williamson's GWR Chocolate & GWR Cream - both mixed to samples supplied by the Bob Timmins at the SVR some years ago. We get them in 5L tins, which might be a tad excessive for your needs (but it's cheaper than Humbrol!).

 

Based on samples I've uncovered, the brown is pretty convincing - it'd be even more so if the varnish darkens with UV.

 

In my opinion, I think the T&RW cream is a *little* too rich & would benefit from being knocked back with white, but until I can find a door that's gone AWOL I can't be certain of that. Said door is a pre-grouping one recovered from a grounded body in the 70s or 80s that I cut back some years ago to reveal a perfectly preserved 'Third', a good area of brown and the post 1923 'revival' lining scheme (which is significantly different to the pre-1907/8 panelled livery). I'm fairly sure it's been 'tidied away' somewhere - just a question of finding it. From memory BS4800 10E49 is close.

 

OT, but BG-era cream is as near as a near thing to off-white - the varnish discolours & sends everything yellow-wards. Modern paints seem to go the other way - they tend to bleach. I mixed a 'strong' cream for W231 which was noticeably more yellow than the cream we were using at the time, but that seems to have faded, even under two coats of varnish.

 

If anyone's got a set of RAL swatches & fancies putting some numbers to them that'd be useful. Probably best to wait until there's a likelihood of actual daylight during the day though.

 

On this wonderful site, we have been advised Rover Primula Cream and Rover Russet Brown.  I found this in the archive.

 

As these are in 300 ml spray cans from Halfords for £6.99, I am more than tempted to go down that route.  I can't paint for nuts, so a cheap solution is essential, as I may need several goes.

I've no opinion on those colours as I've never used them, but painting isn't witchcraft. My issue with rattle cans in general is that they tend to go on too thick, resulting in either 'orange peel' or obscured detail (or both). If your budget will stretch to it, pick up one of those cheap airbrush/compressor combos sold for 'nail art' & have a play around - once you've got the hang of it, you can lay on a coat as waffer-thin as you like & you'll never go back.

 

Pete.

[Horsetan]

.... waffer-thin....

 

OT: but reading this instantly made me think of Mr. Creosote.

[lofty1966]

Your in luck they are 19mm, have fun.

Who dares wins right ?

Only one side done....not enough time to play

Interestingly not all the windows work out at 19mm.

Two end up being 21mm.

Roof ribs will need removing and relacing in correct positions.

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by lofty1966