Titan Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 How many laughably inadequate infrastructure projects have the British done? There is quite a long list, I will kick off with the Electrification of the East Coast Main Line and the M4 flyover in West London. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 M25. The original projections said it should all be 4 lanes but the Treasury said they would only pay for three. The M4 in South Wales, especially at Newport. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meil Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Midlands Links motorway. Cheaply designed, cheaply built and a constant expensive maintenance, which is a PITA for all users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted December 15, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 15, 2016 Is there a trend to swing wildly back and forth between doing things as cheap as possible and inadequately, and going to the other extreme and gold-plating and over-speccing everything? What lucky projects managed to land in the sweet spot in the middle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted December 15, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 15, 2016 Is there a trend to swing wildly back and forth between doing things as cheap as possible and inadequately, and going to the other extreme and gold-plating and over-speccing everything? What lucky projects managed to land in the sweet spot in the middle? Olympic park? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdlcs Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 As to the strength of masonry arches I would point you in the direction of a fellow Leeds University student, Bill Harvey, late of Dundee University and most recenlty a professor of Engineering at Exeter University. His team has visited Dumfries and Galloway on two occasions to overload (and fail) redundant railway overbridges on the old Port Road. I cannot lay my hands on the detail but my recollection is that the bridges were exceedingly robust and took a lot to demolish. Ray Wildly off-topic but Bill was a lecturer then later head of department at University of Dundee when I read for Civil Engineering there. Structures and Bridge Engineering was, naturally, his discipline. Excellent lecturer although I can remember him doing mental arithmetic in the lecture hall and rounding everything off for simplicity then ending up with a factor of safety of 1.0 :-) The phrase "lets just call it 10" sticks in my mind to this day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward66 Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 How many laughably inadequate infrastructure projects have the British done? Isn 't it sad that the Romans could build bridges, aquaducts, tunnels etc that have lasted 2000 years, we used to build superb bridges in the 17th 18th and 19th century and now they fall apart after two or three decades. Forth road bridge deteriorates with every ping of a broken wire while the railway bridge goes on and on. What will future generations think of us? Edward Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 I was told by a Wigan cabbie this week, at the station, that the problem was caused by an occupant making internal structural "changes" to the arch they occupied. The car stored within was wrecked. Not then a problem of deterioration. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Isn 't it sad that the Romans could build bridges, aquaducts, tunnels etc that have lasted 2000 years, we used to build superb bridges in the 17th 18th and 19th century and now they fall apart after two or three decades. Forth road bridge deteriorates with every ping of a broken wire while the railway bridge goes on and on. What will future generations think of us? Edward That we were a generation of pessimists that failed to appreciate the millions of successful engineering projects due to a few high profile failures of design or upkeep? What about all the Roman infrastructure that didn't make it to anything like the 2000 year mark? Sign of total failure, presumably. Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 The way that structures used to be built is relatively expensive. Modern structures are cheaper in terms of first cost and then there are usually some optimistic predictions about maintenance. For example nobody ever thought about the fact that the steel cables of suspension bridges might corrode in a salty environment. The assumption was made that the external material in which they are wrapped would protect them. Ditto for concrete bridges, especially on roads where deicing salts are used. The presumption was that concrete is totally impermeable and therefore it will protect the reinforcement. As with all new technologies, there is a significant learning curve - or failure to anticipate the obvious. Take your choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncan Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Slightly off topic - have the suspension bridges built after the Forth Road Bridge suffered from the same problem of corroding wires ? I have not heard anything regarding Severn or Humber, or did the designers know by the time they were built ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Miles Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 The Severn bridge has some corrosion problems which appear to be being contained by using dehumidified air blown into the cables. I haven't heard anything about the Humber bridge. I also ought to say in the interests of balance that these long suspension bridges are tremendous examples of British engineering at its best. The Severn bridge is especially innovative as it was the first use of an aerodynamic design for the deck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold highpeakman Posted December 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2016 My son was on the platform waiting for the Liverpool train when it happened - though he saw nothing. Station was evacuated and luckily he was able to walk across the road to Wallgate and get to Liverpool by changing at Kirkby. Services back to normal(ish) now, but roads still closed and platform 6 at NW closed. This is used mainly by Liverpool EMU stoppers that reverse here. Info here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-38166611 The bit that collapsed was the old passenger subway entrance, not used for many years, perhaps back to the 50's. I never remember it in use, always bricked up at this end and steps removed. The other arches are commercial premises, one being the Great central railway themed pub (nice pint !!).just out of the photo above to the left. There are no railway lines directly above these arches, being the old platforms 9&10 removed when the station was rebuilt and the line was electrified in 1973 This is an EMU in platform 6 looking north. You can see where the old platforms & lines where behind. The passenger subway is approx at the rear of the EMU. Still in use to the other platforms / exit to the right. The walled up bit which collapsed is to the left, adjacent to the wall. Brit15 Looking at the brickwork on Google Streets it looks like alterations have been made previously to that arch. I am puzzled about the white bricks at the top, are they original? https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5431177,-2.6337956,3a,75y,82.5h,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1seds57aYKtqHJmz2KWPiqpQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en Looking at Google again, I hope the "Nice n' Naughty" people weren't making a disturbance to cause a problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 17, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2016 The white bricks look like glazed bricks in the subway entrance and staircase that used to be there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wigan Wallgate OO Gauge Posted December 31, 2016 Share Posted December 31, 2016 Does anyone know whether more platforms will be added for HS2? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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