Brian Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) Hi Your defective power supply is rated at 12volts DC.. My PowerCab power supply is also rated at 12 volts DC at 1.5Amp. This was supplied with the PowerCab from new. It runs fine if you don't want your locos doing a scale 100MPH or more! The Coastal DCC one linked too is the 15volt version, but it will come with UK three pin plug/socket connection. You can order a continental two pin socket version from the manufacturer Powerpax but it may be more expensive? http://www.powerpax.co.uk/power-supplies/plugtop-power-supplies/ Edited December 20, 2016 by Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Depot Posted December 29, 2016 Author Share Posted December 29, 2016 Having failed to find anything suitable here, have just ordered a new power supply from Coastal DCC, will advise the outcome when it arrives. fingers crossed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Depot Posted January 15, 2017 Author Share Posted January 15, 2017 Pleased to report the power supply arrived in the week and works great, just spent an hour running two locos without any problems. So for 10gbp, plus postage have to say very impressed with Coastal DCC, the mains power supply even comes with four different plug types to use so also saves me needing a EU-UK adaptor out here, result. thanks to everyone who offered help and tips to try. cheers Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted June 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2018 You want more than 12volts for the NCE Powercab or the locos will probably run rather slowly. There have been many reports of slow running with the Powercab when a lower voltage power supply is used. I can't remember for sure but I think the maximum is 15Volts. Old subject but just beware. I stupidly stuck 18V through mine yesterday and blew the Hand Set apart (well, burnt it out). Idiot? yes I know. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Old subject but just beware. I stupidly stuck 18V through mine yesterday and blew the Hand Set apart (well, burnt it out). Idiot? yes I know. Phil Hi Phil. Sorry to hear of your problem. Was it a regulated power supply & how many amps was it putting out ? Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted June 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2018 Hi Phil. Sorry to hear of your problem. Was it a regulated power supply & how many amps was it putting out ? Tony. It was a reg power supply from a DCC Concepts PCU2 and I stupidly put 18V @ 5Amps through it! Totally my fault as it wa so bl##dy hot in the loft and my brain had also fried a little earlier. A couple of years back I fu##ed a 5 A Booster unit by doing something similar. I'm cursed by not being able to use trickery correctly. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 It was a reg power supply from a DCC Concepts PCU2 and I stupidly put 18V @ 5Amps through it! Totally my fault as it wa so bl##dy hot in the loft and my brain had also fried a little earlier. A couple of years back I fu##ed a 5 A Booster unit by doing something similar. I'm cursed by not being able to use trickery correctly. Phil Sorry to hear that Phil. It was the amps that did it. Anything over 3 amps & the Power Cab will get too hot. It can probably be repaired. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted June 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2018 (edited) Sorry to hear that Phil. It was the amps that did it. Anything over 3 amps & the Power Cab will get too hot. It can probably be repaired. Tony. Yup. I think we found which bits 'fried'; 4 little rectangular parts at the bottom of the internal board. I have emailed NCE for advice and I will just test it again when I get my new Power Panel. Less than £100 all in inc post and I would get it repaired I would get a new and better system but I really like the PC and it is adequate for my needs at the moment. In a way it is better to fry a 'cheaper' unit.............................says he! P Edited June 27, 2018 by Mallard60022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Old subject but just beware. I stupidly stuck 18V through mine yesterday and blew the Hand Set apart (well, burnt it out). Idiot? yes I know. Phil Sorry to hear that Phil. It was the amps that did it. Anything over 3 amps & the Power Cab will get too hot. It can probably be repaired. Tony. Fundamentally, its the volts which killed it - the PowerCab manual says 10-15v DC supply. 18v DC is "over volts". The heat is the system trying to regulate the voltage and failing. The current is a lesser issue, and only comes into play when there is a short circuit. NCE systems have somewhat inadequate short protection, and end up relying on either the power supply tripping or the use of secondary short protection devices to protect the NCE system. A "laptop" power supply brick is a fraction of the price of a DCC Concepts PSU2. The laptop supply can be ordered with the correct voltage, so meeting the NCE PowerCab specification. - Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Fundamentally, its the volts which killed it - the PowerCab manual says 10-15v DC supply. 18v DC is "over volts". The heat is the system trying to regulate the voltage and failing. The current is a lesser issue, and only comes into play when there is a short circuit. NCE systems have somewhat inadequate short protection, and end up relying on either the power supply tripping or the use of secondary short protection devices to protect the NCE system. A "laptop" power supply brick is a fraction of the price of a DCC Concepts PSU2. The laptop supply can be ordered with the correct voltage, so meeting the NCE PowerCab specification. - Nigel Thanks for that Nigel. The DCC Concepts PSU2 is 18volts @ 5 amps & DCC Concepts say they use that all the time for their NCE Power Cabs. https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/18v-dc-at-2a-uk-a-medical-grade-power-supply-for-dc-dcc-systems-2-5mm-dc-plug/ NCE say it should be 15volts @ 3 amps max so they both can't be right https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203935645-Adding-more-power-capacity-to-the-Power-Cab Personally I think 18 volts @ 5 amps is to much for a Power Cab. But I'm no expert so I bow to a higher power or should that be amps Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Thanks for that Nigel. The DCC Concepts PSU2 is 18volts @ 5 amps & DCC Concepts say they use that all the time for their NCE Power Cabs. https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/18v-dc-at-2a-uk-a-medical-grade-power-supply-for-dc-dcc-systems-2-5mm-dc-plug/ NCE say it should be 15volts @ 3 amps max so they both can't be right https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203935645-Adding-more-power-capacity-to-the-Power-Cab Personally I think 18 volts @ 5 amps is to much for a Power Cab. But I'm no expert so I bow to a higher power or should that be amps Tony. 5A is too much for a PowerCab at any voltage, but that's because of the PowerCab's internally inadequate short circuit protection(*). If it had adequate short circuit protection built in, then the device would be fine on a 5A or even a 10A power supply. Though that power supply would be a waste of money as all the extra amps over about 2 to 2.5A would just sit there as potential never to be used. I'd go by the maker's (NCE) manuals for power supply specifications. Unless, of course, third party suppliers are prepared to put in writing that they'll fix any PowerCabs which get damaged when using the out-of-spec power supply. But, either way, the 2A supply you link to isn't the same as the 5A PSU2 device. 2A might be OK on the PowerCab's poor internal short circuit protection. (* the ability to damage the NCE systems by short circuits is discussed in the NCE manuals for both the PowerCab and PowerPro systems, though they don't use the term "inadequate" to describe it. ) - Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted June 28, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 28, 2018 I wonder if there is a case for DCC Concepts being partly responsible here, especially if it was one of their PSUs. They appear to have the relevant technical staff so might be persuaded to make a repair based on the fact that their website indicates that an 18v supply is suitable. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 5A is too much for a PowerCab at any voltage, but that's because of the PowerCab's internally inadequate short circuit protection(*). If it had adequate short circuit protection built in, then the device would be fine on a 5A or even a 10A power supply. Though that power supply would be a waste of money as all the extra amps over about 2 to 2.5A would just sit there as potential never to be used. I'd go by the maker's (NCE) manuals for power supply specifications. Unless, of course, third party suppliers are prepared to put in writing that they'll fix any PowerCabs which get damaged when using the out-of-spec power supply. But, either way, the 2A supply you link to isn't the same as the 5A PSU2 device. 2A might be OK on the PowerCab's poor internal short circuit protection. (* the ability to damage the NCE systems by short circuits is discussed in the NCE manuals for both the PowerCab and PowerPro systems, though they don't use the term "inadequate" to describe it. ) - Nigel Thanks for explaining it Nigel. This is the power supply which I should have linked to https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/power-supply-split-9v-dc-or-18v-dcc-for-dcc-systems/ That seems to be the one that Phil used. Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted June 28, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) Should have pointed out that I have used, (until this big mistake, made in a rush and the heat [literally] of the moment), the NCE power supply and I have other inexpensive regulated supplies (as suggested above) of 12V 13V 13.5 V etc. from various sources including redundant PC equipment. For example I am using one of these for supply to point motors @ 12V DC regulated. It was totally my fault that I experimented with the 18V from the PCU from DCC Concepts and not re reading the Power Cab Manual for the first time for ages! I will not be having a niggle with DCC Concepts about this, however I have reread their blurb very carefully in that link above and it should point out that it will not be Power Cab compatible or with any other system that cannot take 5A (or 18V) and there is 'ambiguity' so I shall consider contacting the Settle Office and might just drop a hint as I know the lads there are sound . I very much appreciate your friendly responses to this situation as in the past I have been patronised for my lack of knowledge about trickery and I do not like being made to look a fool (even if I am one). I seem to remember some chat about Power Cab being a bit vulnerable, however I like the system. I suspect there must be a simple way of putting a safety device between the power input to the Panel and the power supply socket into the Panel without losing power level for input?There are, of course, CBs from the track BUSes back to the Panel to protect against 'BIG' shorts or some sort of surge. Phil Edited June 28, 2018 by Mallard60022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted June 28, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) Thanks for that Nigel. The DCC Concepts PSU2 is 18volts @ 5 amps & DCC Concepts say they use that all the time for their NCE Power Cabs. https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/18v-dc-at-2a-uk-a-medical-grade-power-supply-for-dc-dcc-systems-2-5mm-dc-plug/ NCE say it should be 15volts @ 3 amps max so they both can't be right https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203935645-Adding-more-power-capacity-to-the-Power-Cab Personally I think 18 volts @ 5 amps is to much for a Power Cab. But I'm no expert so I bow to a higher power or should that be amps You are absolutely spot on here Tony. Tony. Yes Tony. As they mention Power Cab on this little power supply at 2Amps blurb, they really need to point out that the 18V supply @ 5A from the PSU 2+ " is NOT SUITABLE for Power Cabs"; I am right here am I not? I think it would be helpful for the likes of me. Phil Edited June 28, 2018 by Mallard60022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Yes Tony. As they mention Power Cab on this little power supply at 2Amps blurb, they really need to point out that the 18V supply @ 5A from the PSU+ " is NOT SUITABLE for Power Cabs"; I am right here am I not? I think it would be helpful for the likes of me. Phil I agree Phil. It would be a great help to have this pointed out as its a very easy to make a mistake between the two power supplies. As you saw earlier I linked to the wrong power supply. I suppose it would be no harm to mention it to DCC Concepts as it might help others to avoid making a mistake. We've all done it Tony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Mac Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 I agree Phil. It would be a great help to have this pointed out as its a very easy to make a mistake between the two power supplies. As you saw earlier I linked to the wrong power supply. I suppose it would be no harm to mention it to DCC Concepts as it might help others to avoid making a mistake. We've all done it Tony. Dcc concepts have two different power supplies, a 2amp one for power cab, and a 5amp for the Power house Pro/Power Cab Pro....they recommend the 2amp one as the power supply they use on Power Cabs.... the manual of the 5amp power supply also clearly states that it requires a Dcc system of between 4-5amps.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted June 28, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 28, 2018 (edited) Dcc concepts have two different power supplies, a 2amp one for power cab, and a 5amp for the Power house Pro/Power Cab Pro....they recommend the 2amp one as the power supply they use on Power Cabs.... the manual of the 5amp power supply also clearly states that it requires a Dcc system of between 4-5amps.... Yup, but the info for the PCU +2 does not state clearly in the initial blurb that it is not suitable for DCC Control of (say PowerCab) Units that are max input of less than 2/3 Amps and 18Volts; seems obvious but maybe not to the inexperienced such as me who may not check the User Guide statement. If I may refer you to the page about the PCU 2+ on the Concepts site mentioned by Tony https://www.dccconcepts.com/product/power-supply-split-9v-dc-or-18v-dcc-for-dcc-systems/ The user guide states the 4 - 5 Amp System requirement, but not the advert blurb. Pj Edited June 28, 2018 by Mallard60022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted June 28, 2018 Share Posted June 28, 2018 Sorry to hear of electrickery problems me old duck. I've found the DCC-Concepts blurb to be just that. Blurb. Well written for promotional purposes but despite their well meaning attempts to make things simple to understand, the electrical novice can be easily caught out. I wonder if as regards their 18 volt 2 amp "Medical grade" power supply they sought NCE's opinion on pumping 18 volts into the PowerCab? P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted June 29, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) Sorry to hear of electrickery problems me old duck. I've found the DCC-Concepts blurb to be just that. Blurb. Well written for promotional purposes but despite their well meaning attempts to make things simple to understand, the electrical novice can be easily caught out. I wonder if as regards their 18 volt 2 amp "Medical grade" power supply they sought NCE's opinion on pumping 18 volts into the PowerCab? P Succinctly put dear boy. In the excitement of the moment (or i my case, the frustration in the heat of the loft) one can make a silly move and that is exactly what I did. Anyway this thread, as regards my problem(s), is as dead as my Controller so time to 'mention' the problem to the Brits at Settle as I think the Aussies would just call us whinging Poms Duke Duck Edited June 29, 2018 by Mallard60022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcyg Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I'm currently using a PowerCab handset on my 5amp system. The transformers power an SB5 and 3 Tam Valley boosters, so the handset is not plugged into a PCP, just a UTP. The PCP still powers my programming track with has the original NCE transformer. Is the handset safe to use on the main layout with the 5A boosters as its the only one I have at the mo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted June 29, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 29, 2018 Yes. The problem covered here is using a 18 volt power supply to power the PowerCab. You are powering the SB5 not the PowerCab with your set-up; the PowerCab takes its power requirements direct from the SB5 not from the power supply you are using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amdaley Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 I'm currently using a PowerCab handset on my 5amp system. The transformers power an SB5 and 3 Tam Valley boosters, so the handset is not plugged into a PCP, just a UTP. The PCP still powers my programming track with has the original NCE transformer. Is the handset safe to use on the main layout with the 5A boosters as its the only one I have at the mo? When you use a Power Cab with the SB5 the power cab is running as a Pro Cab. The SB5 is the command station so you are not running the command station part of the Power Cab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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