treggyman Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 Hi I'm building a layout inspired by the Somerset coal field as served by the S & D. I've built a few colliery buildings & am about to paint them.... Hopefully I have enough colour pictures to get the stonework right but..... My question is what colours would woodwork (doors & windows etc) gutters & associated pipework on these buildings have been painted in the 60's ? Also exposed steelwork....Would this have been painted in corporate colours ? I assume galvanised sheeting would have been left natural colour with rust & coal dust stains. Many thanks in advance for any information. Cheers Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted December 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2016 Hi, A quick 'Google' of images under the search title 'Kilmersdon Colliery' hints and dark colours, dirty brown, weathered black, perhaps a faded dark green for what you describe. There are very few colour photos showing the buildings, so I'd have thought that something along these lines would be OK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted December 23, 2016 Author Share Posted December 23, 2016 Hi, A quick 'Google' of images under the search title 'Kilmersdon Colliery' hints and dark colours, dirty brown, weathered black, perhaps a faded dark green for what you describe. There are very few colour photos showing the buildings, so I'd have thought that something along these lines would be OK. Hi Captain Kernow Thanks for the reply. I tried various searches on Google & there were no answers to my specific questions...... However a question asking for N C B paint schemes for buildings came up with dark blue & yellow livery for their lorries..... As I assume the N C B were in control of Writhlington & Norton Hill & other collieries at this time do I assume that the same 'livery' was applied to their buildings paintwork.... Or had they not been painted since nationalisation..... Any way the worst scenario is that when at a show someone says....THAT'S WRONG.......Rule 1 will apply..... Thanks again Cheers Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2016 You will be very fortunate if you can build a completely prototypical layout without having to make some educated guesses. An extensive exhibition layout that I used to be involved with included several (the alternative was to leave the areas of uncertainty empty) but we reckoned we'd researched the place as well as anybody so if someone was able to call us out, they must have been there at the time. We were put right a few times and backed up on a few others; nearly always by ex-staff or people who lived just over the fence. Individuals who can fill in the blanks are to be welcomed in my opinion, but always find out the provenance of what you are being told; there's no point in swapping one error for another. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted December 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2016 Hi Captain Kernow Thanks for the reply. I tried various searches on Google & there were no answers to my specific questions...... However a question asking for N C B paint schemes for buildings came up with dark blue & yellow livery for their lorries..... As I assume the N C B were in control of Writhlington & Norton Hill & other collieries at this time do I assume that the same 'livery' was applied to their buildings paintwork.... Or had they not been painted since nationalisation..... Any way the worst scenario is that when at a show someone says....THAT'S WRONG.......Rule 1 will apply..... Thanks again Cheers Bill Although I lived in the area at the time, at Coleford, I was but a lad and went nowhere near the mines. My guess is that the only yellow you would see in a colliery would be lettering on a newly painted sign. So you are left with dark blue, which is as good an option as any, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim V Posted December 23, 2016 Share Posted December 23, 2016 You can't have looked very hard http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/colliery,somerset shows a nice green and blue paint on the woodwork/steelwork. Took me all of a couple of seconds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted December 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2016 You can't have looked very hard http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/colliery,somerset shows a nice green and blue paint on the woodwork/steelwork. Took me all of a couple of seconds. The shot of Kilmersdon Colliery* after its closure shows an assortment of colours - light and mid-blue, a mid-green, dark brown and weathered black. It gives the impression of an industrial site, in its last years, using any paint it could get its hands on. It is however one of the few colour photos of the Somerset collieries and the only one I have seen with the buildings in such detail - in colour. One can spend quite a time on searches without turning up the right material. Sometimes it is a matter of missing a key word or choosing the wrong one. I am sure Bill will be pleased with your finds, but please respect the efforts others have put into trying to find information. Not everyone is conversant with search engines. What seems obvious to you may not be to others. *It can be seen at https://www.flickr.com/photos/paulbrysn/29248100940/in/photolist-7zJjHS-gSVJFj-eGPuMK-gcTPWX-gcT8ZV-hagoHt-99MuvT-F7AZBQ-gcTQdP-hagqAf-g66oee-gNkpSR-gcThWb-hahEkM-gcThP7-Eu7iST-gcT8T2-qpyiQX-gcTvnL-hagtQJ-adzRnn-qnsyHS-gcT8Ft-7zEkXc-hqZrmE-7zHZLo-qqPWvM-qnrNjS-7zEcZv-qvYXKD-Lyyaqq-EUkqs7-DgoJJu-BM8Jhp-tuSbuW-7cccgw-tfQi1r-qZJYv1-rS1iah-rEsCxB-LT2c2k-FUynFh-GjENZx-G6Uy4g-FHV4fp-FFB1Yu-FGoKL6-FFmxTZ-CyYh8G-sEcoLh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 Here is one colour photo of Writhlington in 1972, https://www.flickr.com/photos/waltjabsco/6589772777/in/photolist-b3jiS2-4qMY2L and a distant view of Kilmersdon https://www.flickr.com/photos/waltjabsco/6934787478/in/photolist-byNAHm-eGPuMK-gSVHGq-gcTPWX-9WE7NA-dUoXQw-9Evwms-gcT8ZV-hagoHt-99MuvT-gcThP7-Eu7iST-gcT8T2-qpyiQX-gcTvnL-hagtQJ-adzRnn-qnsyHS-gcT8Ft-F7AZBQ-7zEkXc-hqZrmE-7zHZLo-qqPWvM-qnrNjS-7zEcZv-qvYXKD-gcTQdP-hagqAf-g66oee-gNkpSR-gcThWb-hahEkM-tfQi1r-qZJYv1-rS1iah-rEsCxB-Lyyaqq-LT2c2k-FUynFh-GjENZx-G6Uy4g-FHV4fp-EUkqs7-FFB1Yu-FGoKL6-FFmxTZ-DgoJJu-CyYh8G-BM8Jhp cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 The NCB dark blue and yellow was used on lorries and some signs. It was not widely applied, if at all, to buildings and steelwork. Washed out shades of pale blue and pale green, as widely used on many industrial structures, were the norm. Headframes, window frames, doorways, walkways, stairways and handrails would have painted in those colours. Use those colours and, unless you are modelling an actual prototype, nobody could say they were wrong. Yellow started to appear around 1970 to highlight safety railings and the like. . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted December 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2016 The NCB dark blue and yellow was used on lorries and some signs. It was not widely applied, if at all, to buildings and steelwork. Washed out shades of pale blue and pale green, as widely used on many industrial structures, were the norm. Headframes, window frames, doorways, walkways, stairways and handrails would have painted in those colours. Use those colours and, unless you are modelling an actual prototype, nobody could say they were wrong. Yellow started to appear around 1970 to highlight safety railings and the like. . . Completely agree with Arthur. As both Writhlington and Kilmersdon closed in 1973, I doubt that much yellow paint made it on either site. Whichever way you look at it, faded light green and faded light blue can be used, plus further weathering, together with any other darker hue. If you adopt that kind of scheme, I'd put money on the fact that no one (apart from any Smart Alecs from this thread!) will comment at an exhibition, other than to say how much they like your layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted December 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2016 While looking through the Flickr search results, I came across a photo of Middle Pit at Radstock as it was, after closure, in 1982. What struck me was how much the winding building behind the main chimney stack looked like a two (or more) storey version of the Wills Crossing Keeper's Cottage. So that could be a source, in 4mm, of suitable styled buildings. I guess that the lighter patch on the roof is where the winding cables ran out. You can see what I mean at https://www.flickr.com/photos/fray_bentos/2074473124/in/photolist-4ajdA1-5vNr8G-4vPFZ1-4fhsVf-mxQ14k-8kKdiK-4uyTey-j2bnoA-j2attc-ArGzry-47ibpC and search for Wills Kits OO Crossing Keepers Cottage SS39 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted December 24, 2016 Author Share Posted December 24, 2016 Hi A big THANKYOU to all who have replied to my cry for information...... Sadly I obviously did not try hard enough but being a bit of a technophobe doesn't help..... All the searches I tried didn't include Kilmersdon but more general enquiries about NCB & associated industrial paint schemes..... The railway searches included Midsomer Norton,Radstock,Norton Hill & Writhlington Rather than reply to individual posts I would like to thank all above for their replies as it has provided a very useful resource to enable me to try & recreate a long gone scene.... Any more info would be gratefully received Cheers Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Cat Posted December 24, 2016 Share Posted December 24, 2016 The NCB dark blue and yellow was used on lorries and some signs. It was not widely applied, if at all, to buildings and steelwork. Washed out shades of pale blue and pale green, as widely used on many industrial structures, were the norm. Headframes, window frames, doorways, walkways, stairways and handrails would have painted in those colours. Use those colours and, unless you are modelling an actual prototype, nobody could say they were wrong. Yellow started to appear around 1970 to highlight safety railings and the like. . . In South Yorkshire, where I grew up, pretty much everything was painted blue and yellow. You could tell which houses in the village were owned by miners as the doors and windows were painted blue and yellow with paint pinched from the pit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Were the pit buildings, the steelwork in particular, painted in the NCB dark blue or yellow? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 May be a clearer picture of the paint job on Writhlington.I have commissioned an augmented kit for this. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Looking for pictures on the 'net, it would appear that there were 'local' colours used. Writhlington and Kilmersdon are green and the only colour pictures of Norton Hill appear to be black. South Wales seem mainly to be red, with the odd black one. Up North, black and grey seem to predominate and I found some blue ones. So, my conclusion is, stick to one of these colours and you won't be far wrong. If you model the pithead gear, Langley do this http://www.langley-models.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_OO_Buildings___low_relief_Incl_Church_Building_45.html#aV21under halfway down page. Wrightscale used to do an etched kit, but not sure if it is still available. It is not shown on the website. And Faller do this http://www.faller.de/App/WebObjects/XSeMIPS.woa/cms/page/pid.14.17.89/agid.1127.1202.1231/atid.319/ecm.at/Fortuna-Mine.html which needs a little work to Anglicise it. And thishttp://www.faller.de/App/WebObjects/XSeMIPS.woa/cms/page/pid.14.17.89/agid.1127.1202.1231/atid.320/ecm.at/Marienschacht-Mine-headgear.html which would require considerably more work. Split level sheaves(winding wheels) were not unknown in the UK, but very rare. For building and washer plant, Walthers have this https://www.walthers.com/new-river-mining-company-kit-main-building-12-1-2-x-9-x-9-3-8-quot-31-2-x-22-5-x-23-2cm which is not dissimilar to 1950's construction in the UK. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 The Wrightscale kit, though it hasn't been advertised for a good while, is still available if you contact them. It might, I'm not certain, be made in batches and so not available as one batch sells out and they await another. I bought two a couple of years back. The Wrightscale kit comes with very extensive instructions, the Langley kit, which looks very nice too, has rather brief instructions. They make up into slightly different designs for a nice bit of variety. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted December 25, 2016 Author Share Posted December 25, 2016 Hi JZ & Arthur, Thanks for the links to the various kits available for pithead gear.... Unfortunately I haven't got space for them so was going to incorporate a picture of one into the backscene...... I live in Redruth & was going to use a picture of the set of winding gear opposite Morrisons (the name escapes me at the moment ) South Crofty's gear is too modern looking I think.... However if JZ doesn't object I might try & use the picture he's posted above as it is an actual one from the area..... Again thanks for the fantastic response to my request.... Cheers Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Cat Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 Were the pit buildings, the steelwork in particular, painted in the NCB dark blue or yellow? Pretty much everything that wasn't brick, tile or corrugated plastic was painted blue and/or yellow. It is a long time ago now but I remember the doors and window frames were blue, while lintels, window sills, door frames etc. were done in yellow. I am pretty sure at least one of the two sets of headgear at the local pit was repainted blue (from a faded blue/green colour which might well have been green when it was new). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted December 25, 2016 Share Posted December 25, 2016 I've used the Walthers kit tucked away in a corner, mostly hidden, to portray a 1950s modern structure where the pithead is remote from the washing plant. I'll geta picture tomorrow morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Captain Kernow Posted December 27, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2016 While looking through the Flickr search results, I came across a photo of Middle Pit at Radstock as it was, after closure, in 1982. What struck me was how much the winding building behind the main chimney stack looked like a two (or more) storey version of the Wills Crossing Keeper's Cottage. So that could be a source, in 4mm, of suitable styled buildings. I guess that the lighter patch on the roof is where the winding cables ran out. You can see what I mean at https://www.flickr.com/photos/fray_bentos/2074473124/in/photolist-4ajdA1-5vNr8G-4vPFZ1-4fhsVf-mxQ14k-8kKdiK-4uyTey-j2bnoA-j2attc-ArGzry-47ibpC and search for Wills Kits OO Crossing Keepers Cottage SS39 Yes, I agree, I've always thought that the Wills stone sheets are a good match for some of the stone work you see in that part of North Somerset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted December 27, 2016 Share Posted December 27, 2016 While looking through the Flickr search results, I came across a photo of Middle Pit at Radstock as it was, after closure, in 1982. What struck me was how much the winding building behind the main chimney stack looked like a two (or more) storey version of the Wills Crossing Keeper's Cottage. So that could be a source, in 4mm, of suitable styled buildings. I guess that the lighter patch on the roof is where the winding cables ran out. You can see what I mean at https://www.flickr.com/photos/fray_bentos/2074473124/in/photolist-4ajdA1-5vNr8G-4vPFZ1-4fhsVf-mxQ14k-8kKdiK-4uyTey-j2bnoA-j2attc-ArGzry-47ibpC and search for Wills Kits OO Crossing Keepers Cottage SS39 The winding house you mention is still in situ, as are most of the buildings in that photo, with the exception of the chimney, though the base is still there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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