LMS single red lining

[Nelson Jackson]

Hello everyone,

 

Does anyone know where I can find watersldie transfers for the single red line as seen on postwar LMS engines? My only concern is that some transfers may be too thick whereas in real life it was a very fine line.

 

Any advice is much appreciated,

Thanks,

Nelson

[RexAshton]

As the line on the real thing was about 3mm anything in model form is going to be on the heavy side. I generally use Fox Transfers. It can be difficult to handle and their recommendation to apply it in several smaller pieces rather than one long length is something I would agree with but otherwise I find it ok to use and convincing when finished. I've only used HMRS Pressfix on coaches. It's ok but I think the Fox Transfers is finer.

[Flood]

I used the single red lines used on LNER locos from the HMRS transfer sheet.

 

 

I'll leave it up to you as to whether this is acceptable.

[Nelson Jackson]

I have found this, do you think this would be suitable?

 

http://fox-transfers.co.uk/general-alphabets-linings/lining-in-red-33648

[Nelson Jackson]

I'll leave it up to you as to whether this is acceptable.

That looks very good! More than acceptable. However as much as I love HMRS transfers I would be more confident using waterlside transfers for lining.

[phil-b259]

Hello everyone,

 

Does anyone know where I can find watersldie transfers for the single red line as seen on postwar LMS engines? My only concern is that some transfers may be too thick whereas in real life it was a very fine line.

 

Any advice is much appreciated,

Thanks,

Nelson

 

I think you may be getting confused over your eras and Liverys

 

Post WW2 all engines were pained black and lining was abandoned for everything other than the most important locos (i.e. those that got the lined Maroon in the late 1930 e.g. Duchess, Jubilees, etc) This lining was not red - it was a fairly broad maroon band with straw coloured edging and can be seen here http://www.hattons.co.uk/21059/Hornby_R2631_Royal_Scot_Class_4_6_0_6133_The_Green_Howards_in_LMS_Black/StockDetail.aspx Mixed traffic locos stayed unlined black

 

Pre WW2 and, after Staniers shake up in the early 1930s, the standard livery for mixed traffic locos was as pictured in Floods post (Overall Black with thin red lining). Again the most important locos were the only ones to differ, and they retained maroon with yellow lining.

 

From grouping up until the big shake up in the early 30s, Livery policy was basically that of the Midland Railway, which called for lined maroon on all mixed traffic and express locos.

 

Locos classed as freight engines never had any lining - certainly after Staniers shake up.

 

Thus if you are seeking to represent the post 1945 period then red lining is incorrect - locos seen in such a Livery would have had to have gone through the entire war without a repaint which is going to be a pretty rare occurrence. Whether the loco should get the Maroon and straw lining (assuming it was entitled to it) depends whether it went through the paintshop before BR introduced their own lining style or whether it kept its plain wartime black paint until BR days

[Flying Pig]

Pre WW2 and, after Staniers shake up in the early 1930s, the standard livery for mixed traffic locos was as pictured in Floods post (Overall Black with thin red lining). Again the most important locos were the only ones to differ, and they retained maroon with yellow lining.

 

From grouping up until the big shake up in the early 30s, Livery policy was basically that of the Midland Railway, which called for lined maroon on all mixed traffic and express locos.

 

Locos classed as freight engines never had any lining - certainly after Staniers shake up.

 

I generally agree with your descriptions, but the change from Midland style liveries had nothing to do with Stanier as it occurred in 1928.

[uax6]

The question has to be asked, as Nelson is an NCC modeller, did the livery changes on the main system extend to the NCC at the same time?

 

Andy G

[Nelson Jackson]

My apologise gentlemen, Andy G is correct. I am looking for the lining to line NCC engines, but I threw LMS only into the title to hopefully get more responses.

 

NCC liveries were as stated from the book "locomotives of the LMS NCC"

 

"It was not until the closing stages of the Second World War that NCC engines were painted black, with exceptions mentioned in the text*. After 1945 a lined black livery was introduced, reflecting postwar LMS practise. Lining was a single red line with the LMS crest high up on the cab as seen on No74 on the rear cover**. However the WT class 2-6-4Ts had a different lining using straw and maroon as described on page 125***."

 

* This is referring to the 2-6-4 Mogul engines which stayed LMS crimson throughout their lives.

 

** Here is that photo mentioned on the rear cover.

 

*** This is the lining that Phil-b259 was talking about for postwar LMS.

 

[Flying Pig]

I used the single red lines used on LNER locos from the HMRS transfer sheet.

 

The HMRS LMS loco lining sheet would appear to be a better buy as it covers all the LMS lining styles, which it seems from Nelson's post #9 are also the ones used on NCC engines, though not at exactly the same times. Note these are pressfix type transfers.

[micklner]

The HMRS LMS loco lining sheet would appear to be a better buy as it covers all the LMS lining styles, which it seems from Nelson's post #9 are also the ones used on NCC engines, though not at exactly the same times. Note these are pressfix type transfers.

 

Be warned HMRS LNER Red lining  suffer from poor adhesion in my experience. The quality of old sheets is not present on the latest issues, they also suffer from poor line up on the White/Black/White area as well.They also do a Red only lining sheet which is much wider, and only has straight lines and small tight corners.

 

The Fox decals I have used on many similar jobs , whilst slightly wider that stay where they should be, without lifting.

[Flood]

The HMRS LMS loco lining sheet would appear to be a better buy as it covers all the LMS lining styles, which it seems from Nelson's post #9 are also the ones used on NCC engines, though not at exactly the same times. Note these are pressfix type transfers.

The only reason I used the red lines from the LNER sheet is because I used the white/black/white lines on a blue original Merchant Navy in 2001 and had the sheet spare (to confirm to micklner it was therefore an old sheet).

 

Coaxing some of the LNER curves to adapt for the tender lining was an interesting experience at the time. It persuaded me that steam loco lining was not my favourite experience.

 

All I was really showing on the photo was that transfers can have fine red lines.