Zimo Active Drive

[norman]

The new class 15 from Little Loco Co has a Zimo decoder, programmed I believe by Paul Chetter, incorporating "Active Drive".  This feature provides for a loco to be realistically braked using the F2 key. I like this feature and would like it on other Zimo decoders.

So my question is can this realistic braking on F2 be applied retrospectively to other Zimo decoders?

It would be great also if this could be achieved on ESU decoders (4.0 and 3.5) too.

 

Norman

 

[RedgateModels]

Hi Norman,

 

As far as I know the feature has to be built into the sound scheme, so no it's can't be enabled in older projects. 

 

Having said that I think Paul is working his way through older projects to update them including Active Drive and other things that can be done with the latest firmware from Zimo. It is a shame you are so far away from Mansfield as Paul is running his sound demo on both days at the Mansfield show 4th and 5th March http://www.mansfieldmodelrailway.co.uk

[Nigelcliffe]

The braking button can be implemented on any recent Zimo sound decoder firmware, it is two CV settings, one to specify the function key (eg. F2) and one to specify the braking deceleration rate.  

 

 

But, the sounds (eg. brake squeal right at the end) might or might not work quite as well as on a project where they've been carefully crafted for the behaviour, or might need some more CV faffing to set it up. 

 

 

- Nigel

[norman]

The braking button can be implemented on any recent Zimo sound decoder firmware, it is two CV settings, one to specify the function key (eg. F2) and one to specify the braking deceleration rate.  

 

 

But, the sounds (eg. brake squeal right at the end) might or might not work quite as well as on a project where they've been carefully crafted for the behaviour, or might need some more CV faffing to set it up. 

 

 

- Nigel

Hello Nigel

Which CV controls the braking rate please.

On the class 15 when the F2 is pressed you can hear air applying the brakes. Its easy enough to put that sound into F2 providing it is already part of the project.

Norman

[norman]

Hello Nigel

Which CV controls the braking rate please.

On the class 15 when the F2 is pressed you can hear air applying the brakes. Its easy enough to put that sound into F2 providing it is already part of the project.

Norman

OK - CV309 defines the brake key and CV349 the deceleration when brake key active

But this only works from software 32-5 onwards

Norman

[norman]

OK - CV309 defines the brake key and CV349 the deceleration when brake key active

But this only works from software 32-5 onwards

Norman

Oops sorry - software version 33-25 onwards

[Nigelcliffe]

Oops sorry - software version 33-25 onwards

 

Yes, that version has been out for a while.   All Zimo decoders can have their firmware updated independently of the sound project loading process.   Most users never need to update the firmware, but if you want access to a new feature, then there is an update process.   

 

The firmware update requires a Zimo programming device. These days that is a MXULF, though I still use an ancient MXDECUP device.   Or, a good Zimo dealer will be able to perform firmware updates for you on their hardware.   Usually firmware can be changed without removing the decoder from a loco, or making wiring changes within the loco.   

 

 

-  Nigel

[computrains]

All very interesting BUT is it possible to turn the active drive braking off?

Why you ask?  I useRailRoad & Co software via Digitrax to run my layout.

RR&Co likes to know where exactly locos stop when it decelerates them to a halt.

But active drive lets the locos coast for ages.....  Until you press F2

That's difficult for the computer.   See my problem?

 

Roland

Edited February 26, 2018 by computrains

[Nigelcliffe]

All very interesting BUT is it possible to turn the active drive braking off?

Why you ask?  I useRailRoad & Co software via Digitrax to run my layout.

RR&Co likes to know where exactly locos stop when it decelerates them to a halt.

But active drive lets the locos coast for ages.....  Until you press F2

That's difficult for the computer.   See my problem?

 

Set the acceleration and deceleration CV's to zero.  Same as you would for any other decoder of any brand.  CV3 and CV4. 

[RedgateModels]

or leave f2 on .....

[pauliebanger]

Roland

 

To specifically answer the question you posed, set CV309 = 0.

 

That will turn off the Brake Key feature, but you will still have the long coasting effect which is a function of CV4 not the braking feature.

 

Nigel has given a strategy to overcome the effects of momentum and inertia (or acceleration and deceleration), by setting CV3 = 0 and CV4 = 0. To run on manual control with ActiveDrive features, you will need to reinstate the sound project defaults to these two CVs

 

Leaving F key 2 permanently latched 'on' is a great way for 'manual' users who wish to not operate the Brake Key to reduce inertia but without resorting to CV changes. This would be less useful for compter operated models.

 

However, if you need to equip your decoder to be able operate under either computer control or full manual control including the use of the Brake Key, then there is an alternative which will allow either mode at the press of an F key, once set up correctly. You will not need to alter the sound project default setting in CV309; although the Brake Key can still be used to produce the air brake sound the braking effect will be removed

 

This can be achieved by setting up a 'no momentum or inertia' F key.

 

Often used as a component in ZIMO's shunt mode, this can be set up to temporarilly reduce values in CV3 and CV4 to zero. (Ironically, this was how I advised people to create their own Brake key before I devised the true ZIMO progressive Brake Key feature).

 

Set the operating key with CV156, set reduction of all momentum/inertia effects to zero with CV124 = 3.

 

When the assigned F key is engaged, there will be no momentum effects, perfect for computer control.

 

When the assigned F key is disengaged, all the features of ActiveDrive will reappear, perfect for manual control.

 

(NOTE. If there is a Shunt Mode already assigned within the sound project, ensure CV124 = 3, CV155 = 0 and CV156 = the number of the Shunt Mode key. This will then become your 'no momentum or inertia' key).

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

Edited February 26, 2018 by pauliebanger

[pauliebanger]

Nor

 

Oops sorry - software version 33-25 onwards

Norman.

 

Updated software is the best route for older ZIMO decoders and this will bring other benefits ('new for old' without rubbing the Genie's lamp).

 

However, it has always been possible to set up a braking effect on ZIMO decoders. i.e even on decoders with earlier software than V33.25. It's a little crude since it affects acceleration too, but when used sensibly, it can be quite convincing.

 

Select an F key for the brake effect, let's say F2 as most DCC systems have a way to make this key 'momentary', most useful for variable braking.

 

Set CV124 = 2 (to reduce CV3 and CV4 by 75%) or CV124 = 3 (to reduce CV3 and CV4 by 100%) when F key 2 is engaged.

 

Set CV156 = 2 to set up the brake key on F key 2

 

In operation, vary the duration which F 2 is engaged to vary the braking effect simulation.

 

This type of simulation should be possible with any decoder brand which allows reduction of CVs 3 and 4 to be assigned to an F key.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

Edited February 28, 2018 by pauliebanger

[Paul80]

Hi

 

Can the active braking feature be activated on non sound zimo decoders

 

Hi have a Farish Blue Pullman that has a Zimo Sound decoder at the front and a standard Zimo at the back and am struggling to get them speed matched and it would be helpfull if both would apply active braking on the press of F2 as it is only the front decoder has active braking on F2

 

I did read the CV's on te rear decoder but it did not show CV's 309 or 349.

 

Front sound decoder is a Zimo MX649N Rear motor decoder is a Zimo MX622N

 

I have set CV1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 to be the same on both decoders and have got the speeds close but start and stop are not matched close enough and the rear stops far to fast as it does not have active braking enabled.

 

Can it be enabled on the Basic MX622N or do I need a higher grade decoder to get that option like the MX617N.

[pauliebanger]

Hi

 

Can the active braking feature be activated on non sound zimo decoders

 

Hi have a Farish Blue Pullman that has a Zimo Sound decoder at the front and a standard Zimo at the back and am struggling to get them speed matched and it would be helpfull if both would apply active braking on the press of F2 as it is only the front decoder has active braking on F2

 

I did read the CV's on te rear decoder but it did not show CV's 309 or 349.

 

Front sound decoder is a Zimo MX649N Rear motor decoder is a Zimo MX622N

 

I have set CV1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 to be the same on both decoders and have got the speeds close but start and stop are not matched close enough and the rear stops far to fast as it does not have active braking enabled.

 

Can it be enabled on the Basic MX622N or do I need a higher grade decoder to get that option like the MX617N.

 

It will depend upon the decoder software loaded to your non-sound decoder.

 

Read CV7 and CV65. Togther these give the main version number and the subversion number.

 

From this we can establish if the brake feature is included.

 

If it is not, then you can update the decoder software to bring the feature to the decoder.

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[Paul80]

Thanks for the reply

 

CV7 is 37 and CV65 is 3

 

This was a brand new decoder just supplied so hope its not got old software on it

 

Paul

[pauliebanger]

Thanks for the reply

 

CV7 is 37 and CV65 is 3

 

This was a brand new decoder just supplied so hope its not got old software on it

 

Paul

 

V37.3 is not the latest verson, there are two more recent versions for non-sound decoders, but nevertheless it will have CV309 and 349 capability.

 

How did you read the lack of 309 and 349?.

 

If from Decoder Pro, it's probably because you (or Decoder Pro) have selected an old decoder profile. ZIMO's software advances so quickly that DP can become out of date. Try the profile from another ZIMO decoder.

 

Or, more simply, just use your DCC controller and write CV309 = X (where X is the F key you wsh to use as the controlling key) and CV349 = Y (where Y determines the brake force, try around value 6, lower gives sharper braking, higher gives less abrupt effect).

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[Paul80]

I at first tried decoderpro and was sure I selected the latest version of decoder, but will double check tomorrow, I also tried reading those CV's with my Gaugemaster Prodigy and that returned 000 for both CV's

 

In Decoderpro the highest CV shown for the MX622N is 250, I know I have the latest version of JMRI as it was just updated.

 

With CV309 what do I enter to use F2 as it's F2 used on the sound decoder.

 

Thanks for your help with this

[pauliebanger]

I at first tried decoderpro and was sure I selected the latest version of decoder, but will double check tomorrow, I also tried reading those CV's with my Gaugemaster Prodigy and that returned 000 for both CV's

 

In Decoderpro the highest CV shown for the MX622N is 250, I know I have the latest version of JMRI as it was just updated.

 

With CV309 what do I enter to use F2 as it's F2 used on the sound decoder.

 

Thanks for your help with this

 

X = 2 (Since F2 is the key you wish to use as the controlling key).

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

Edited September 21, 2018 by pauliebanger

[Paul80]

Thanks Paul

 

All working now, used my Gaugemaster Prodigy to program them couldnt find any decoder version in DecoderPro that even showed those CV's for Zimo non sound decoders.

 

There was me thinking DecoderPro was the dogs danglies for programming

[Nigelcliffe]

Thanks Paul

 

All working now, used my Gaugemaster Prodigy to program them couldnt find any decoder version in DecoderPro that even showed those CV's for Zimo non sound decoders.

 

There was me thinking DecoderPro was the dogs danglies for programming

 

You can use alternative software: Gaugemaster/MRC have some for their system.  

 

JMRI is written by volunteers in their own time.  If you find something missing, you've got a few choices:  do nothing, moan about it (and nothing happens), do something to get the software updated to cover the gap.   Various volunteers would help you with the last option.  For a missing CV, there is the "single CV" programmer within JMRI/DecoderPro which will allow access to any CV, which covers things until someone does something to deal with the gap (which brings us back to the earlier choices, and whether there is a volunteer aware of the issue who wants to make the update.....).   

[Paul80]

Thanks for that, will have a look for the single CV programming option, I hadn't seen that before.

[Izzy]

Thanks Paul

All working now, used my Gaugemaster Prodigy to program them couldnt find any decoder version in DecoderPro that even showed those CV's for Zimo non sound decoders.

There was me thinking DecoderPro was the dogs danglies for programming

If you want to discover what actual cv’s exist on any decoder whatever the make or model, then choose the NMRA profile from the top of the decoder profile list, then the cv tab, and ‘read’ all cv’s. This will then find and list all the cv’s on a decoder that exist, and their individual setting. During this process, if any cv does not exist, then DP returns ‘loco not found’ before moving on to finding the next one that does. Just leave it until it has fully finished, which might take some time if they reach the many hundreds, which of course they can. Doing this can be very useful for unknown decoders or double-checking against any particular profiles if you are having problems of any kind.

 

I think It has to be accepted that JMRI is free, run by volunteers, and the profiles depend on some individual, anyone with the time and knowledge, generating them, which is why sometimes they don’t either exist at all, or are not the latest versions. I believe the recent TTS sound decoders are just now getting added because someone on RMweb has been compiling them.

 

Izzy

[terrysoham]

Can we just get things straight, PanelPro and DecoderPro are free but they do ask for a donation. If you make a donation, you are helping to get things done just that little bit sooner. If everybody in the Uk who uses this software made a donation of £10.00 it would add considerably to JMRI’s coffers so they could pay someone to write software instead of relying on volunteers. Making a donation is easy to do.

[zoro]

I have a class 25 with Active braking, but it is operated on F5, is there a way to change the function to F2, ( currently allocated to one of the horn sounds., please?

 

[norman]

Hello Zoro

Just set CV309=2 - job done active braking is on F2 and not F5

Norman