Hope Mill. A rebuild. A new home, introductions.

[brightspark]

This thread is about Hope Mill, an EM Gauge layout that was originally built by Martin Brent.

 

 

 

Page 1 A rebuild. A new home, introductions.

[brightspark]

Hope Mill. A rebuild. A new home, introductions.

 

I was going to start this with a “guess what the layout is”, but I doubt that many of you would recognise it as it has been hidden away for so long. So I will go straight in a say that last week I became the new keeper of Hope Mill, a layout that was created by the late Martin Brent.

 

Hope Mill in its packing cases, waiting to be unpacked and moved out of what I laughingly call my garage.

 

I hope that you will join me as I take on the challenge of “doing something with this project”, whatever that finally turns out to be. My intention is to put this layout back onto the exhibition circuit as well as have some fun with it.

 

The only reference material I have is Martins article about Hope Mill in MRJ 21 published in 1988. Although Phillip Hall thinks that all of the photos he took may still be lurking around Wild Swan. However from what I have found so far this will not be a restoration back to its original condition. Foam scatter flock and pigmy trees may have passed for OK in 1988 but I think that we have moved on since then. So this will be an upgrade that hopefully keeps the essence of Martins original layout.

A search of the website found 2 references to this being listed as an inspirational layout. So while I vacuum off the cobwebs and ponder its condition I will ask you, gentle reader, to recall what memories you may have of this layout and what you think should be the key features that are kept.

 

 

[Barry O]

I invited this layout to Leeds Show many moons ago. Martin was a great modeller and also a nice person to know. Glad to see the layout still exists and good luck in the restoration project

Baz

[Colin_McLeod]

This looks like an interesting project to follow. Best wishes with this Andy.

[brightspark]

Well that's the first stage done. 

All the boards have been vacuumed off to remove all the dead spiders, cobwebs and most of the dust. I also checked to make sure that there was nothing nasty in wood (always a good precaution) and shook off all the loose bits.These now reside in a plastic tub with the label "Things that fell off Hope Mill".

 

I have yet to tackle the control box so that still sits to one side. This will get opened up and checked for dust and spiders as well as a good check of the electrics well before being plugged into the mains.

 

It was also a chance to take stock of the general condition of the layout and to start planning what I wish to do to it.

 

So here a quick tour.

 

Board 1. The siding board.

 

A general view of the siding board.

 

 

Perhaps this should be the Sid Larkin Board as it contains his scrap yard. This board has suffered a bit from not being protected during its long storage. (The rest of the boards were boxed up.) The Ratio signals coming off worse. The MG has gone from the bridge as has its driver who had stopped to take a photo. Although I think I found the photographer now minus his car and camera, trapped in between the backscene and the baseboard.

 

The line has seen better days.

 

Larkins scrap yard

 

Board 2. Goods Yard

This contains the points for the goods yard. The track layout being based on Elham.

In the back ground are shops including Twistevant's.

 

The shops

 

I took the chance to plug together Boards 1 & 2 to get an idea for the feel of the layout.

It does look very Kentish.

 

Board 3. The Station.

The station Building is from a former layout, Winchelsea Road. (The little lane in front of the shops is called New Winchelsea Road) It looks a little like Elham and screams SECR.

 

Hope Mill Station board.

 

Hope Mill Station

 

The timber built Goods shed in the background is from Westerham while the signal box is from Battle.

 

The goods shed.

It looks a little abandoned inside.

 

At the far end of the station is the smaller siding, based on the goods yard at Lyminge. It has a wagon turntable and a line going to a smaller shed. This appears to be the horse shunting line.

 

Board 4. The Bridge

 

The warehouse at the back looks like a later structure as it was not there in the MRJ photos. Unfortunately the blue tack holding it down broke away and it has been rattling around in the box. The plastic yard in front of it has also warped. There is something about this building that doesn't fit, so it might be a candidate for removal.

The stream/ river also seems to have done something strange as the two swans seem to have sunk into it.

The large house is a model of the station masters house at Cranbrook. The gardens are very dusty and the roof has warped and lifted off.

 

The general condition of the track looks good. I have a run a wagon through the points and the check rails seem ok.

The fiddle yards are missing their sector plates and nearly all of the boards are missing their legs. There were some legs that came with the layout but these have been detached and are rather flimsy.

However there is one pressing issue that must be addressed above all else. But that I shall leave for next time.

 

Andy

 

 

(edit for typo)

Edited March 26, 2017 by brightspark

[wainwright1]

Hi Brightspark.

 

Nice to see this layout re-emerge after so many years. I saw it several times in its heyday and it always looked very good.

 

I started my Hawkhurst 00 layout over thirty years ago and have also revived it over the last couple of years, but I think that Hope Mill might be slightly earlier than that ?

 

I remembered that Martin had adapted the single line passing station into a double track electrified line, although Goudhurst always looked like a double track station, but did not remember that he had used various buildings from different locations. One thing that I seem to recall, was that there was a short branch coming off the main layout which I do not see in your photos, or perhaps my memory is playing tricks. Might it have been an extra add-on board ?

 

The buildings still look good, shame about the station masters house. I have always fancied modelling one of those, each one at Cranbrook, Goudhurst and Horsmonden being slightly different.

 

Good luck and may we hope to see the layout on the exhibition again some time in the future.

 

Ray

[brightspark]

Hi Ray,

 

I only have the boards shown here. The right hand end (from the viewing side) goes into a fiddle yard. However the control panel does have a diagram showing a junction and all the levers and switches for such an extension. I have yet to fully delve into the control panel to fully decipher the wiring loom and work out if such an extension was catered for. The article in MRJ does suggest that Martin had considered connecting up to his other former layouts. The other thing that I spotted was that the scenic break at the right end is not permanently fixed to the layout. So there may well have been such a board.

 

Does anyone have pictures or an old show guide of this layout?

 

And also a belated Hello to Baz. You would happen to be able recall which year? Perhaps it could make another trip up to Leeds sometime.

 

Andy

[10800]

Good luck with all this Andy.  I saw Hope Mill several times and it was a particularly inspiring layout for me, and I was pleased to be able to say so in person to Martin some years later - of course he was typically modest about it.  I loved the combination of rural secondary/branch line and 3rd rail electrics (with a Roxey 2NOL unit if I recall).  It was also the first time I had seen Alex Jackson couplings.

 

I don't know if it appeared in the press other than the MRJ issue you mention - a shame, it deserved wider coverage.

 

I look forward to seeing it again.

[brightspark]

Success, I have green light working.

Let me explain. There is only one controller and that is in the "spare" fiddle yard. The main control panel, whose workings I have been pondering over, has an outlet but no controller. So I found an old AMR handheld controller, rewired the plug and....I get a green light. (As oppossed to a puff of blue smoke).

 

Looks like I am on track to getting a loco running soon.

 

Andy

[brightspark]

Last night I hosted the meeting for the North West Surrey EM Gauge Group and to entertain I had set up three of the Hope Mill boards. Gracing the station was the 4Sub from Met Junction. I suspect that this is the first time in its 50 years or so life that it has ever sat on a track with a third rail. 

 

 

However it was only today that I manage to plug in the control panel and attempt to get a loco to move. The yard works ok but the running lines seem to have some dead spots.

The signals that are operated by PO relays work but do not have the nice smooth action that we expect today. The shunting horse just growled and clicked (So that will have to be looked at) and the wagon turntable struggled to even turn an 1/8th of a turn. (Its a nice touch but...).

 

Back in post 5 I finished with a comment bout an issue that needs to be addressed about this layout.

 

First let me quote the man himself from MRJ21 (page84)

 

"My first mistake was to use some old baseboards, those from my last 16.5mm layout 'Winchelsea Road'. They were the right size, they were well built from glued and screwed marine ply and really seasoned knot-free timber but they were oh, so heavy. It was quite impossible for me to even think of moving them up and down the loft with chip-board trackbases added, and so, as a compromise, I settled on fibreboard as a substitute."

 

Lets not forget that this was the age before lightweight baseboard construction where the thinking was that strong equated to heavy. Ply was the new material for baseboards then, with chipboard on 1x2 inch timber being the norm.

Now these baseboards have held together well. They have not distorted and still seem to be flat. But they are oh so heavy. They are made from 1/2" thick ply with 1/2" think fibreboard on top. Goodness knows why anyone would consider putting chipboard on top. What gets me is that he managed to carry them up and down stairs and in and out of his loft every time he did an exhibition.

Each board weighs over 20Kg!

My back is killing me after setting these up.  No wonder the legs of the layout gave way.

 

Now my experience of attending model railway shows as an exhibitor is that heavy layout are bad news. This is because they have to be carried, quite often some distance from the car park to the spot in the hall and sometimes via stairs. The plan is also to get this into a car. So an all up weight of over 100Kg without legs, a lighting rig or stock is going to make any journey very slow.

 

So part of the rebuilding plan is to reduce the weight. I am thinking big holes in that 1/2inch plywood.

 

Andy

 

 

 

(edit for typos)

Edited March 26, 2017 by brightspark

[brightspark]

Since the last entry, the activity on Hope Mill has been to reduce the required storage space.

This involves removing the legs and pairing up the boards so that they are now sharing the same end plates. Some of the back-scenes have been removed to allow this. They were pretty grubby anyway, but this revealed the backs of the houses.

 

Investigation into what the electrics do is continuing. I am bemused that the wire run changes colour at each sub terminal. I am less impressed by the mixing of AC and DC in the same wire runs and this will be corrected.

 

It is about this point, as I do in any project, that I start to draw up a list of likes and dislikes and ponder the changes.

 

At the top of the list of dislikes is the weight.

I mentioned this previously and have started putting together ideas as to how this may be overcome. When sharing my thoughts some people have suggested that I build new baseboards and start afresh. This thought hadn’t crossed my mind initially but at this point it is worth considering as an option . After all some of the buildings are quite good.

 

However, perhaps this may not be such a good idea, the whole point of taking on an existing layout, well for me at this point, was to avoid having to design and build a layout.

There is another factor emerging that may also have to be considered. This layout has a bit of an iconic status. This week I came across Iain Rice’s book “Mainlines in modest spaces” [Atlantic 2003] in which the design for Melling is dedicated to Martin Brent. The design is based on Hope Mill.

 

This raises a question of how much I should change. I do not believe that this should be kept in aspic as I think that it is worth updating. Instead of flock powder stuck to the ground, I fancy long grasses and different textures. The stumpy model railway trees should go and something more akin to a finescale model tree should appear in their place along with proper hedges and new fences as well as re-profiling the landscape.

But what other changes can I do? I am thinking of taking out the Lyminge style horse platform so that with some juggling of the structures I can put the station masters house on the platform. If I take out the slips at this end of the station I can move the level crossing so that the track plan becomes more like Elham.

 

But am I changing Hope Mill too much?

 

There are some parts that I really like. The buildings are good, but the mill seems out of place so it is going. The track has a really nice sweep across the scene so I would like to keep that as well as the balance of the scene. The bridge over the river looks nice, but the river needs an upgrade. Finally the livestock platform has to be kept as that is essential.

 

Is keeping these enough to save the spirit of the layout?

 

To round up I have invested in a Bachmann C class that will run on this line. I think a couple of H classes and a Birdcage set may also follow in due course.

Meanwhile back to the recording and planning.

 

Andy

[brightspark]

Today I was under the river bridge board. This was a board that had been boxed up and had also had the underside covered. 

So today I exposed it nether regions to consider the wiring, construction and the possibilities of modification.

 

This board is slightly different in construction to the other boards in that they stick to the traditional 1/2" Plywood top on a 2" x 1" frame with a fibre board base for the track-base. This board however dangerously dallies with the open frame concept. The track is supported on a T section frame  held at both ends by stout timber that forms the end plate. The scenery is simple chicken wire with plaster-work on top. (Actually I think it is a Jack Kine product, as he mentions this in his article, so it is Artex). The buildings are mounted on their own sub-bases and supported on the open framework.

To accommodate the river these boards are just a tad under four inches deep from rail top to base, where as the other boards are two and half to three inches deep.

 

The puzzling thing is that this board is somewhat heavier that the others even though it had less electrics underneath it.

The problem is, I found, that the outside frame is made out of 1/2" ply on three sides with the fourth, that being the end plate that joins the up fiddle yard and forms the sky being a sturdy 1/2" chipboard. To ensure extra stoutness a 1/2" sheet of wood is fixed to this add support and to support the T sectioned track girder. The track girder is itself made from a very stout 3/4" plywood.

This has come out at an eyewatering 22kg. That is a 2 man lift and all for a board that is only three and half by two foot.

 

I then considered what I could do to lighten it up. The chipboard end plate could go and replaced with a lighter sandwich construction. The half inch lump of wood could be reduced, perhaps to use as a brace around the dowels and bolt holes. I could drill big holes in the 1/2" ply frame and the vertical support on the Track girder. But then what am I left with? The chipboard base under the station masters house has to come out and I am planning on moving that to the station board. The river needs replacing. The road to the level crossing has too much of a hump and I am planning on moving it. The warehouse has gone and the chipboard under that has to go....

 

So I am very much of the mind that this board will have to be remade.

 

I think that I will have consider the other boards in the same way.

 

Meanwhile has anyone turned up any other articles about this layout or exhibition guides?  I also wonder if there are photos of the layout on show in better days.

If so do post here.

 

Andy

[10800]

Andy, I don't think you are changing the essence of Hope Mill too much at all, and updating scenics can only be a good thing.

 

The C, Hs and Birdcage set will be entirely suitable for HM (aka Goudhurst?) - if I recall Martin had an ex-LSWR 0395 class on it, which always struck me as a bit out of place.  Nice loco all the same.

[islandbridgejct]

For what it's worth, I would regard the baseboards and trackwork as being an essential element of the original, and needing to be preserved if it is to be the same layout.* Everything else is fair game for upgrading, restoration or improvement, the extent of the change depending on whether  you aim for a restoration, a reinterpretation or an improvement - but at a certain stage, you'd be better off starting again. I agree that the mill building seems out of place.

 

Alan

 

(* Being Irish, I do not propose to discuss my shovel or its antecedents on this forum at this time.)

[brightspark]

For what it's worth, I would regard the baseboards and trackwork as being an essential element of the original, and needing to be preserved if it is to be the same layout.* Everything else is fair game for upgrading, restoration or improvement, the extent of the change depending on whether  you aim for a restoration, a reinterpretation or an improvement - but at a certain stage, you'd be better off starting again. I agree that the mill building seems out of place.

 

Alan

 

(* Being Irish, I do not propose to discuss my shovel or its antecedents on this forum at this time.)

 

Hi Alan,

 

an interesting point made and one that I have been pondering since you posted it. I have made up my mind that this is not a restoration. But a reinterpretation or improvement, an interesting thought and well worth me thinking about as it will give me a direction as to where to go with this.

 

I think that the problem I have is that I have been involved in other peoples projects, so I have always made suggestions while they make the decisions. The other elephant in the room is that this layout is known and I find my thought process focusing on not wanting to let those people down.

 

With that in mind I have been doing further poking into the construction of the baseboards. It looks very much like the plywood is not the top layer, and it may be that I can drill or cut out large sections of it and leave the softboard top with track in place. The front facial only hardboard so can come off.

 

I have also found a mystery plug. It doesn't seem to connect with the fiddle yard or anything else. So I followed the wires back to the control panel. Hey presto! they seem to relate to the junction that Ray recalls in post 6.

 

Until next time.

 

Andy

[Adam]

Hi Andy,

 

The structural matters wouldn't concern me overmuch: if handling the layout is too heavy going it will never deliver what you need from it: if the appearance is similar then that strikes me as less of an issue.

 

With regard to the mill, might the problem really be that it reaches the top of the existing backscene making that look odd? In scale the mill isn't so dissimilar to the mill that still stands behind Alresford station, and of course, it stands on the river which is what I'd expect so I'm not sure how it's out of place, especially given the name of the layout.

 

Adam

[Oldddudders]

Hi Andy,

The structural matters wouldn't concern me overmuch: if handling the layout is too heavy going it will never deliver what you need from it: if the appearance is similar then that strikes me as less of an issue.

I'm with Adam. A layout that gives you backache through being unwieldy is simply going to become an albatross. Honouring the builder's ideas by lifting everything you can salvage and placing it on a more manageable frame would seem the best way to keep the layout alive and fit for exhibition. We all seem agreed that is a very worthwhile aim.

 

The baker's/tea-shop looks rather like the one in Goudhurst to me. I lived in Goudhurst Road, Flishinghurst.

[brightspark]

Hi Andy,

 

The structural matters wouldn't concern me overmuch: if handling the layout is too heavy going it will never deliver what you need from it: if the appearance is similar then that strikes me as less of an issue.

 

With regard to the mill, might the problem really be that it reaches the top of the existing backscene making that look odd? In scale the mill isn't so dissimilar to the mill that still stands behind Alresford station, and of course, it stands on the river which is what I'd expect so I'm not sure how it's out of place, especially given the name of the layout.

 

Adam

Hi Adam,

Yes the backscene is too low. I was thinking that it is a stone built structure in an area where I would expect timber or half timber. 

Also you can see sky through the open doors.

 

A new structure would perhaps look more like the real Hope Mill

https://catalogue.millsarchive.org/hope-mill-goudhurst-3

 

Perhaps the current river could also be like the pond at Goudhurst but with the mill feeding into it.

https://catalogue.millsarchive.org/goudhurst-hope-mill

http://www.francisfrith.com/goudhurst/goudhurst-hope-mill-1901_46398

http://www.francisfrith.com/goudhurst/goudhurst-the-pond-and-hughenden-c1960_g38054

http://www.francisfrith.com/goudhurst/goudhurst-the-pond-1902_48309

 

All ideas at the moment.

 

Andy

[islandbridgejct]

I'm with Adam. A layout that gives you backache through being unwieldy is simply going to become an albatross. Honouring the builder's ideas by lifting everything you can salvage and placing it on a more manageable frame would seem the best way to keep the layout alive and fit for exhibition. We all seem agreed that is a very worthwhile aim.

 

The baker's/tea-shop looks rather like the one in Goudhurst to me. I lived in Goudhurst Road, Flishinghurst.

I can see the logic of that, but then I wonder if the old adage that, "I wouldn't start from here" applies. I suppose if you had new baseboards with the same track and track layout, it might still be the same layout. Maybe the clue is in the word "layout". I'm going to stop before I get philosophical.

 

As to the mill, I think the colouring and the building material are out of keeping with its surrounding and with the style of the other buildings which are either rendered, brick, or wood. It is also too high for its location from an artistic point of view. The scenery around it is low, and going down on both sides towards the mill, as though it is intended to frame a view off into the distance, but instead there is a big building just at the point where the distant view should be. It's not intended as a focal point or a view blocker, but it blocks the view to the backscene at that location and sounds a discordant note with the rest of the layout.

 

Alan

[brightspark]

At last, a scruffy sketch showing the current layout/ trackplan.

 

 

 

 

Enjoy.

 

Andy

[brightspark]

Another update.

The four scenic boards

 

Well the legs are now all off and are sitting in the wood store to be reused.

The decks of the two fiddle-yards have not been found so that means that I have no guilt trip about rebuilding these/ building new ones.

Here starts another debate about fiddle yard design.

Meanwhile I have made up some new supports for Hope Mill.

I was looking at various ideas and quite liked the idea of the two box section girders that sit under St Meryn. However while studying the Cameo Layout book by Iain Rice I was taken by the simplicity of the L girders from Wood. I carefully scaled up the rough dimension from the photos in the book and have managed to make up a beam that is about 16 feet long and supports the layout.

So at last Thursdays area group meeting I was able to display all four scenic sections of Hope Mill.

 

The beam in place. Legs are Draper from Screw-Fix.

 

Not only that but we were able to run some trains up and down. 

 

Looking to the mill and the level crossing. 

 

The two dead sections mentioned previously were failures in the solder joint on the rail joiner. A dab with the soldering iron soon fixed that. 

All the points work apart from the half of the single slip into the horse dock. It goes back to normal but won't reverse. It is also not providing the correct polarity to the track when reversed. 

The wagon turntable is still unreliable and the shunting horse works (until the rubber tube in the drive broke) in that it moves from the turntable to the shed but the magnet doesn't energise. I had a poke around underneath, there is a red wire that has become detached at both ends and a relay that is swing around on its wire loom. 

The level crossing (all three gates of it) works. But the gates don't all arrive at the end point together as the mechanics that make it work, a bit of string wound around four pulley wheels, slips. This was picked up from an article in the Railway Modeller. The other problem is that there is no stop, so if your not careful the gate will wind itself around the post. I glued it back together again and made a note to do something about it.

There was also the problem of different heights of baseboards. I packed them out for Thursday and spent today adding on some strips of timber (and so adding even more weight) across the ends so that they all sit at the same height.

We also encountered another problem. When a point was switched some wagons went straight on.

It turns out that these had Sharman wheels which have a finer flange than the wheels available in the 1980's. Investigation found that there is no recess for the point blade, so you get a little gap on the top of the running face. I guess that this is a refinement learnt in the subsequent 30 odd years since the layout was built.

 

Note the lack of recess or joggle for the point-blade.

 

Also of note is that the water column is too close to the signal. So if the fireman wants to take on water he will either have to SPAD or shunt the train forward. Hmmm this may have to go.

 

I wonder if this was deliberate?

 

So as the summer is here I can start to get to grips with getting Hope Mill up and running.

 

Cheers

 

Andy

Edited June 11, 2017 by brightspark

[DLT]

Hi Andy,

 

Lovely to see this again, I always enjoyed the modelling and writings of Martin Brent; and his love of the novels of EF Benson.

 

Good luck with the layout.

 

Dave.

[brightspark]

Activity on Hope Mill has slowed for the moment while I consider the various options listed above. One thing that I can report is that the layout now sits on a trolley so I don't have to carry the great heavy lump so far. Until I can lose some weight it will remain living in the garage. This is not so bad as it dry and warm, so I only have to deal with the spiders. I was inspired by Gordon Gravetts solution for transporting and storing Pempoul. So I may well build a box onto the trolley that Hope Mill can sit inside.

 

I have also been reading RailModel Digest No4. I must admit that I had not paid much attention to this short lived magazine, which is a shame as it is so well written.

Anyway in this edition, published in 1996, Martin Brent describes his 7mm Layout Arcadia. This is the layout that came after Hope Mill. He does provide some insight into his previous layouts, Arcadia (in OO), Rye Harbour and Hope Mill. Ray (post 6) will also be glad to know that his memory is not letting him down as the article describes the extension to Tilling Junction where the branch line for Winchelsea Road and Marston Abbotts came in. The layout at this point being 30 feet long and needing 6 operators. So this is what the diagram on the control panel shows and explains the mystery plug. It also perhaps explains why there are no decks for the two fiddle yards.

 

By the way if anyone has photos of the layout, please could you post them. Especially the fiddle yards as the present arrangement doesn't quite make sense.

 

Now also in this magazine is another article by Martin about Control panels and wiring. Here he describes the control panel for Arcadia. This has a set rules that would suggest that perhaps he had learnt something from the wiring of Hope Mill. I quote "Brent Rule 3 All wires should be colour coded and that colour code should remain constant from control panel to the equipment." Something that had not been applied to Hope Mill and possibly provided a lot of frustration. Don't worry Martin, when I redo the electrics I shall include your 5 rules.

Also of note is that he advocates removing the mains electrics from the panel and having the transformers in a box on the floor. Something that Iain Rice also advocates in his Cameo Layout book. I found this an interesting as it shows another little piece of puzzle in the development of finescale modelling.

 

However going back to the Arcadia article though, there appears to be one lesson that Martin failed to learn. (I say this very tongue in cheek) Arcadia (7mm) was built out of second hand packing cases that are 1/2" waterproof ply with side members of 7" wide 1/2" ply. Actually the deeper frames make sense as it protects the (then new) Tortoise point motors. Hope Mills underboard workings are not so well protected and my plan is to move these or box them in. However these boards must have been close to 25 Kilos. Obviously Iain Rice's thoughts on lightweight ply did not reached the ears of Martin.

 

So before I sign off, does anyone know what became of Tilling Junction and Arcadia II?

 

Cheers

 

Andy

[SimonDe]

I registered with this site just so I could reply to this topic!

 

I was a founder member of the Watford and District MRC, along with Martin and my late dad. I was also one of Martin's trusted crew on Hope Mill. At the time I was a teenager and I considered this a great honour! My dad was helping him out at an exhibition, there were short of people so I was asked if I'd like to help. I'd known Martin since I was very young (maybe 5 years old or so) and he was a lovely guy as well as being a superb modeller. He used to give me rides in his old MG in return for me popping round to his house to fix his computer! Happy days. I even got to operate the 7mm Arcadia at least once.

 

I'm so glad to see Hope Mill again as I have many happy memories of taking it to exhibitions with Martin and his wife Jan. I do remember it being *very* heavy, as you say, and it was always a long job to get it set up, dragging parts of it out of a hired Luton van. It ran to a time table at the conclusion of which we had to spin the fiddle yards around (after taking the fascia off, unplugging the electrics, and asking people to mind out the way) and start again. I remember on one occasion the operator on one of the fiddle yards fell asleep and we woke him up by throwing some of Martin's extra strong mints, which he always kept on the main control panel, at him! Occasionally I got to sit on the middle control panel and be captain of the ship while Martin indulged in one of his long shunting sessions.

 

It's great to see the layout again in these pictures and I'm glad it's survived. The mill was there from the start, I'm sure of it, and used to have a little sack that went up and down. There were also several moving figures (a man hammering, someone drinking a cup of tea) controlled by a mechanism under one of the baseboards and we always had to be careful when setting up/breaking down not to put the board down on this mechanism. Do any of these features still work?

 

For me, I think it should remain as original as you can keep it. It was an iconic layout and you could tell it was a Brent creation by just looking at it (as well as by spotting an MG and a pub). That's easy for me to say though as I'm not the one having to fix it all! :-) It would be great to see it running again. 

 

Somone mentioned the junction. When we first started the Watford & District club (after the original Watford club had split) we had various member layouts. Hope Mill was one and Marston Abbots was another. We built a junction board (Tilling Junction) which joined the two layouts. It was a bit of a monster and I remember it was hard to sequence the two layouts together as well as needing a lot of people to make it work. It did run though and I remember operating it at the first Watford Finescale show in 1991 (or 1992 - sometime around then). I helped to build some of the scenery for the junction. You might have the extended control panel from that junction board. I've no idea what happened to the junction itself but I'm pretty sure Marston Abbots is still in the care of one of the original Watford members. It lived in my dad's garage for a few years but was put back in action, I'm sure of it.

 

I'm not involved in model railways anymore, but this has brought back some great memories. I hope you don't mind me commenting!

 

Just out of interest, where had it been residing all these years before you got hold of it?

[brightspark]

Hi SimonDe,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Thank you for sharing the memories.

That little snippet of information about the fiddle yard operation has filled in a huge gap. I couldn't work out how such a small FY would handle the length of trains.

The mechanism for the sack hoist and the animated figures were still in place but the strings had failed and springs had disappeared. The axeman/hammer had disappeared as had the horse. A common theme of a Martin Brent layout is the animation and I want to build on this. The mechanics are going to be updated and moved to a safer location.

There doesn't seem to be a pub and the large number of MG's that used to populate this layout have gone.

The control panel does have the controls for the junction.

 

The layout had been acquired at around the time of Arcadia. Martin had sold it and the stock to a well known trader who has kept the stock for his own use. Meanwhile the layout was stored waiting for the day when he could get around to doing something with it. With retirement plans in place he need the space occupied by Hope Mill for storage of stock which is how it came into my hands.

 

Thanks for comments information and opinion. Its these that will finally give me a direction to work towards.

 

Andy