Little Muddle

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, Fishplate said:

 

Ooooo ~ a Victoria - Dover - Paris via Little Muddle on the GWR, heading for a Train Ferry in which port . . . . ? 🤔 

 

Genuine question: Did Train Ferry services go to somewhere in France/ anywhere from GWR territory? 

 

Not that I'm aware.

The only ports with 'linkspans' allowing trains to be loaded onto ferries were in SR or LNER territory.

[Winslow Boy]

I know Holyhead operated a mail train service as it was written into the post office agreement that the government in London be able to stay in touch with Dublin no matter what.

[KNP]

Playing around with tone mapping which I haven't done for a while.

 

 

 

 

[outatime]

The second one would be a nice postcard, it looks like a colourized black and white picture.

[The Stationmaster]

19 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Not that I'm aware.

The only ports with 'linkspans' allowing trains to be loaded onto ferries were in SR or LNER territory.

Exactly so.   The only British ports equipped to operate seagoing train ferry services for railway vehicles running on their own wheels were as follows -

 

Southampton (military only) train ferry 1917 (some sources say 1918) to some time in 1919.

Richborough (military only) train ferry  operational 1918 - late 1919.  Link span sold to LNER for use at Harwich (where it still survives, pics below)

Harwich - Zeebrugge operated by the LNER.  Opened 1924 -  last service ran in January 1987 

Dover, new build from scratch, opened 1934, service ended in 1994 following the opening of the Channel Tunnel

 

There were never any train ferry ports on the west coast of Great Britain as the only possible destination was Ireland which in railway operating terms would obviously have been a far from bight idea.

 

The only British train ferry route used by a commercial passenger train was Dover - Dunkerque.  This was used by 'The Night Ferry' service on which the through passenger carrying vehicles were originally owned by CIWL ('wagon Lits').  Through trains commenced in late 1936, and after the break due to the war resumed in 1947.  The service always ran between London and Paris but from 1957 a through coach to/from Bruxelles was added although I don't know how ling this lasted as it had definitely ceased some years before the train was withdrawn completely in late 1980.   One's night's sleep tended to be somewhat disturbed by being shunted onto and, far worse, off the ferry at Dunkerque where the French seemed to be far less considerate of the passengers.

 

Thomas Bouch designed a train ferry for iuse on the Firth of Forth but whether it ever operated I don't know.

 

My photos below show 1.  Vehicles being loaded onto a train ferry at Dover in the early 1990s some years after the original link span had been considerably upgraded with a second deck added above for road vehicles.  And 2.  Vehicles being unloaded over the similarly modified link span at Dunkerque.  Both photos illustrate quite well why a linkspan is needed between the shore and the deck of the ship to enable vehicles to be transferred at all states of the tide.  These photos were taken from the ship's train ferry deck while I was making the trip on official business to observe working practices.

 

Finally my two  colour photos at the bottom of the page show the 'preserved' remains of the train ferry pier at Harwich as it was nearly 4 years ago

 

1. 

 

2. 

 

 

 

 

 

Back to the countryside and Little Muddle

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by The Stationmaster
Typos

[Nick C]

There was also, briefly, a train ferry across the Solent, from Langstone to St Helens, using the PS 'Carrier', which had previously run the Tay crossing before the bridge there was built. It wasn't a success, largely because the carrier was designed for the river conditions of the Tay, not the somewhat more exposed Solent...

[KNP]

One of our local train spotter friends sent us some close up pictures of passing locos

 

 

[Fishplate]

14 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

The only British ports equipped to operate seagoing train ferry services for railway vehicles running on their own wheels were as follows

 

Thank you @The Stationmaster and @Tony Teague

[Ponthir28]

You can almost smell the steam hot oil and all the other fire box smells.

[chris45lsw]

On 16/01/2023 at 19:37, Tony Teague said:

 

 

I'll brace myself for a problem!

I tested 5 of my T9s a couple of days ago and 2 have succumbed, including 30119 which is the model Chris Leigh had to remedy.  I have 4 more somewhere which I need to find and check.  I also have a Schools, 925, which I think has gone the same way.  I gather this is model is notorious for Mazak rot.  I was astonished and shocked when I first learnt that this was a problem with some modern models.  As Mr Wolf says I had thought this was something confined to pre-War Dinky toys.

Chris KT

[Chris116]

Didn't SK say in one of the TV shows that Hornby models were for life! Maybe we should be asking what they are going to do to replace the affected models with ones that don't slowly explode. Surely if they don't replace them then trading standards ought to be getting involved for false advertising.

[MrWolf]

"For life" may be open to interpretation nowadays as a life sentence equates to about six years, out in three for good behaviour...🤪

[brushman47544]

Reading the specific threads on here, Hornby has been pretty good at replacing recent chassis that have crumbled away due to mazak rot. Certain versions of their Class 31 were known for it and Hornby even ordered extra chassis with the following production run specifically for that. I think Hornby has stopped that for the 31s saying its now too long ago, which seems reasonable - you can't expect them to offer a replacement for ever. but it does mean we should all check our models regularly just in case. Other manufacturers have had similar problems with specific models in recent years; it's not just Hornby. I have a later Hornby T9 (30313 BR late crest) and it's fine.

[Chris116]

9 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

"For life" may be open to interpretation nowadays as a life sentence equates to about six years, out in three for good behaviour...🤪

Our judicial systems view of how long life is and the government's view when discussing pensions appear to be moving further apart every year! If the government used the judicial length of life we would all be pensioners before we could vote.

[MrWolf]

5 minutes ago, brushman47544 said:

Reading the specific threads on here, Hornby has been pretty good at replacing recent chassis that have crumbled away due to mazak rot. Certain versions of their Class 31 were known for it and Hornby even ordered extra chassis with the following production run specifically for that. I think Hornby has stopped that for the 31s saying its now too long ago, which seems reasonable - you can't expect them to offer a replacement for ever. but it does mean we should all check our models regularly just in case. Other manufacturers have had similar problems with specific models in recent years; it's not just Hornby. I have a later Hornby T9 (30313 BR late crest) and it's fine.

 

That's fair enough, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place, this lot, which were serving as impromptu paperweights are between fifty four and sixty three years old, banged out by the millions as children's toys. 

Not one has mazak rot, because the makers were meticulous about the mixing ratios and cleanliness, that is all that is required to prevent mazak rot. It's all down to quality control.

 

[brushman47544]

15 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

 

That's fair enough, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place, this lot, which were serving as impromptu paperweights are between fifty four and sixty three years old, banged out by the millions as children's toys. 

Not one has mazak rot, because the makers were meticulous about the mixing ratios and cleanliness, that is all that is required to prevent mazak rot. It's all down to quality control.

 

 

I bet they were made in the UK and were not manufactured down to a price. But you're quite right, it shouldn't and doesn't need to happen. Quality control is clearly not good enough, but when your goods are manufactured half way around the world you can specify what you like but if you're not there to check, you're at their mercy. Would we be willing to pay the higher prices to ensure that quality control? Comments on other threads suggest not and that prices have increased too much already.

[MrWolf]

They were made to a price, as all mass produced items are, but they weren't farmed out to the lowest bidder who then farms out again and possibly again in order to achieve his mark up.

They were cast in Britain and by all accounts, those who worked for Dinky and Corgi toys sixty years ago were well looked after.

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, brushman47544 said:

 

I bet they were made in the UK and were not manufactured down to a price. But you're quite right, it shouldn't and doesn't need to happen. Quality control is clearly not good enough, but when your goods are manufactured half way around the world you can specify what you like but if you're not there to check, you're at their mercy. Would we be willing to pay the higher prices to ensure that quality control? Comments on other threads suggest not and that prices have increased too much already.

I suspect that part of the problem was that the quality of the metal used in 'mazak' etc castings was not specified at all.  So the factory simply used either what they could get from their mate down the road or what they could get for the lowest orice - these two not necessarily being the same thing.  

 

I understand that in more recent years some of the companies commissioning models from a factory they do not control havn been far more careful and comprehensive in their specifications.  But if they haven;t don;t blame the factory because in the vast majority of cases they work to what the customer wants and is prepared to pay for.  Screw them down on price and they will act accordingly.

[MrWolf]

All manufacturing should contain a Bill Of Materials which gives the specification and quality for everything, whether you are manufacturing in house or subcontracting, that way your customers can have full traceability and importantly you, the manufacturer can defend your reputation and bank balance in the event of problems. The trouble is that we the consumers have become complacent because all we've known is throwaway items of just about good enough quality to last the twelve months gaurantee that is actually sh!te compared to something made twenty years earlier.

To say that if you want quality, pay more is sheer arrogance. If you pay anything at all, then what you receive should be fit for purpose, no argument. Which is why toy manufacturers went to so much trouble ito get the mazak right eighty years ago.

We're already paying more than enough, given the mark up, offering to pay more won't make one bit of difference, except to the shareholders of the toy companies.

[John Besley]

7 hours ago, MrWolf said:

 

 

Very nice, I found a Standard Vangaurd in the hedge at home when clearing up the garden back in 2017 ... must have been there for 30 years plus... rebuilt it - new sub frame and wheels, remade the body mouldings with Miliput and repainted to match the original paint, it's never going to win prizes but it has history.

 

 

 

 

[MrWolf]

Very nice rescue John, done because you liked the thing you found and because you can.

I have a number of rusty waifs and strays for similar reasons.

The metal isn't bad for sitting in acidic soil for decades. 

 

Sorry for the derailment Kevin, I'll go back to talking about vintage cars and grumbling about the state of industry on my own thread!

 

 

Somebody left a b****y wolf on the track again...

 

 

[KNP]

A snap taken from the end of the platform...

 

[MrWolf]

I do like those junction photos, they always make the layout look huge. It also reminds me of the whole point rodding saga..

[KNP]

We haven't heard from the Squadron Leader recently so it was nice to get some pictures from him....

 

He caught a busy moment...

 

[Limpley Stoker]

Have the sheep let themselves of the cattle trucks for lunch?  Thay may have sensed they may well be there for a very long time.
 Nice to see it busy !