Ray Von Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Hello, Can anyone advise me on this matter? The theory is, that by the addition of two wires as shown in the first pic, you can eliminate the need to rely on the blades of the point providing electrical contact. So far so good, I found the second image and it shows a diagram of this method. But, it does mention insulation of the frog. The third pic is of the underside of the actual points in question, and specifically - the two crossed wires which I assume would result in a short if they weren't insulated or altered in some way? So, has anyone successfully accomplished this, with N gauge insulfrog points, in DC - and how? Many thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 If it's insulfrog, I can't see that anything could short. Those two wires on the back already have insulation between them. Double check with a multimeter for continuity first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 I'd probably remove those pins before running anything, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John ks Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 In the drawing(second photo) the green wire to the frog & switch contacts are only relevant to electrofrog points I model OO so I don't see many N scale points but to me it looks like the wire under the frog (on the straight rail) already has a clear insulation sleeve over it(yellow arrow) In OO the wires under the frog of an insulfrog are arranged so that they don't cross I would like to think Peco are smart enough to design the points so that the wires crossing under the frog cant short If you run feeds as shown by the red & black arrows you wont need to solder the 2 wires shown in your fist pic John Edit changed to reflect the correct colours (it was late my time & I was tired & I c***ed up). thanks to Menphis32(in following posts) and others who pointed out the error of my way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Might want to swap one of those sets of red&black though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 (Puts good spectacles on.) Well... fancy using clear plastic as insulation! How daft. Ahem. Anywaaaay, I'm glad that it can indeed be done. Thanks for all your help, chaps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Might want to swap one of those sets of red&black though! Well spotted Memphis32! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Might want to swap one of those sets of red&black though!Possibly the Australian way of wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted March 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2017 Possibly the Australian way of wiring. Just swap the red and black for green & gold. That will fix it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Instead of feed lines, could I in theory just "hardwire" the following under the baseboard, with appropriately wired fishplates? Or is it better to feed direct from controller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dhjgreen Posted March 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2017 As your first post was about not relying on the contact between the switch rail and the stock rail, you still need both of the links shown in that post. Edit to add: I do something similar with Electrofrog N gauge. It is quite easy to remove some of the plastic on the rear of the point with a craft knife to make a neater finish. As I am using Electrofrog, I have to include the switching of the frog as shown in your diagram in post 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Sorry dhjgreen, not quite following? Does my idea not bypass the switch and stock? Have I got the sketch A about F? Apologies again, but wiring is really not my strong suit :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Clash of posts there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dhjgreen Posted March 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2017 Sorry dhjgreen, not quite following? Does my idea not bypass the switch and stock? Have I got the sketch A about F? Apologies again, but wiring is really not my strong suit :-(By bonding the switch and stock together you remove the need for the good contact that would otherwise be needed. The post you have copied into your first post talks about removing the need for a clean point blade (also stock rail, which they do not mention). You may see elsewhere on this forum that many people are happy with point blade contact to provide the switching, I prefer positive connections which the first diagram does very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Cheers, I'm quite tempted just to do that (solder a wire "bridge") Always glad to hear the voice of experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dhjgreen Posted March 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2017 Good luck. Let us know how you get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Will do, it might be a while though - need to purchase a decent soldering iron... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dhjgreen Posted March 19, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2017 Almost any iron will do, Antex etc. For N 25W should be enough but get the best you can afford, plenty of advice on here. Do use 60:40 tin lead flux cored solder, you will have far fewer problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Von Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 Thank you, I've got my eye on an Antex kit at my nearest Maplin. It's around £35 I think. (Am i allowed to say that?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Nothing wrong with that iron kit.. Be aware Maplins only sell lead free solder, plus they may even try telling you that lead content solder 60/40 etc is illegal to sell or use. It's not! Plenty of suppliers still sel lead content solder like in the UK Wilko, Halfords etc plus on line retailers too. Only illegal to use if you're a manufacturer or repirer of items sold/used by the public. So for home use it's fine. But as with anything containing lead always wash your hands throughly after it's use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Dhjgreen - the switch rails are already bonded to the frog end via those crossed-over wires... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis32 Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 Brian - it's not even that simple - there's plenty of exceptions to the lead-free rules. Ironically, medical equipment is one of them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted March 19, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 19, 2017 Basically, if the equipment needs to be "high-reliability" (military, medical, safety critical, etc) then that industry has an exemption to use 40/60 full fat solder. Kev. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted March 20, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2017 The second diagram in the first post (point blade cleaning) applies to Electrofrog points. The jumpers inside the point are redundant for Insulfrog. Avoid them if you're unsure about soldering; do the soldering on cheap plain rail. This does give the chance to drive through a point set the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dhjgreen Posted March 20, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2017 Dhjgreen - the switch rails are already bonded to the frog end via those crossed-over wires... Agreed, however, the blade links mean you are not relying on the hinge for connection, just as risky as the blade stock rail contact. The second diagram in the first post (point blade cleaning) applies to Electrofrog points. The jumpers inside the point are redundant for Insulfrog. Avoid them if you're unsure about soldering; do the soldering on cheap plain rail. This does give the chance to drive through a point set the wrong way. I do agree about practicing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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