OO Handmade Points

[Dan6470]

Hello, This is my first post.

 

I'm looking to build a model railway, although it will probably end up as a train set, I not quite sure where the dividing line is, I've thought about doing it for almost forty years and now at forty twelve I've decided to build a model railway. I have a room available 17' x18' and I want to build a Junction and a terminus station. I have it in mind to build the junction on a 14' radius curve which if my maths is correct for a quarter circle should provide a run length of approx 22'. I want to build in OO gauge. The main reason is that I have a quantity of Peco streamline track and points from my younger days (they've been boxed up for 35years, never used), and I want to run ready to run kit including some older Hornby Double O and Wren rolling stock. However I don't have enough track so would propose to use my existing Peco in the Terminus, but with regard to the Junction I have it in mind to build my own track, or at least the points (should that be turnouts?) and although I have done a lot of web searching there doesn't seem to be any on-line guides to building points. I have of course come across the C & L products but these seem rather expensive, the idea of building my own is in the first instance from a budget point of few and secondly the junction is on a curve so all pointwork should be curved.

 

I have just placed and ordered for 'An Approach To Building 4mm Finescale Track' by Iain Rice and I have also come across a web site in Canada, www.handlaidtrack.com, which provides a lot of info but also wants to sell jigs for building the points/turnout which again seem rather expensive. So I wonder if anybody can give me some pointers here. Is it possible to build the points on the cheap? I spoke with a couple of guys from the 2mm finescale society who say they build points in 2mm scale for less then a £1.00 a time, is it possible to do something similar in 00?

 

Also whereas the branch terminus would be built using Peco streamlined, which I believe is code 100, can I build the Junction in finescale with a hidden converter section to join the two scales and will my existing rolling stock work on it?

 

Thanks

D.

[gordon s]

Hi Dan, yes it is quite straightforward to build your own turnouts. I started a couple of years ago and haven't looked back since. To be honest, once you look at the flowing trackwork you can produce building your own track, you may not want to use the old Peco stuff at all....

 

I have posted a few pics showing the construction of a curved turnout on page 2 of my own layout thread.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/3422-eastwood-town-update/page__st__25

 

 

[Donw]

Yes it is possible to build points very cheaply. In order of cost

Thin wood sleepers (cheap ply that separates provide suitable wood) with brass tacks to which the rail is soldered. Look at the pictures of Peter Denny's Buckingham.

PCB sleepers to which rail is soldered.

Thin wood sleepers and moulded chairs ( C+L or Exactoscale) or cast whitemetal chairs (not sure if still available in 00)

Ply and rivet with cosmetic chairs.

C+L plastic sleepers and chairs.

 

Obviously the cast chairs are better looking than blobs of solder.

 

I would advise track gauges - at least two

Jigs for frog assembly I make from panel pins and scrap wood. I have some templates but usually just build use the prototype table of leads for varying frog angles.

You would be best seeing a demo where abouts are you?

Donw

[BR60103]

Dan:

you may find that your handbuilt points are a bit finer than 35-year-old trains can handle. Most of the plans that come are aimed at finescale modellers and either the flangeways or the check gauge will not take old HD.

I used to build points with no jigs at all.I'll admit that none of them are in service anymore.

I know the fellow that runs Fastracks. I think the jigs are worth the price if you're making a dozen identical turnouts.

[Dan6470]

Hi Dan, yes it is quite straightforward to build your own turnouts. I started a couple of years ago and haven't looked back since. To be honest, once you look at the flowing trackwork you can produce building your own track, you may not want to use the old Peco stuff at all....

 

I have posted a few pics showing the construction of a curved turnout on page 2 of my own layout thread.

 

http://www.rmweb.co....te/page__st__25

 

 

 

That's a superb layout. You've got to be very pleased with it .......... what are doing after you finish? You don't fancy holidaying in West Yorkshire this year do you? It's one heck of a layout and in a space that is very similar to my own, although access to your room seems from a staircase whereas my access is through a door in the wall which is causing a problem, I'll have to find some way to bridge it. I was thinking about a drop in section.

 

With regard your trackwork, which looks terrific, I notice that the points are all soldered onto pcb but the track is on chairs. Having looked at the C+L web page I notice that they supply kits to build the points using chairs, is there a reason that you decided to solder rather than use chairs?

D.

[Dan6470]

Yes it is possible to build points very cheaply. In order of cost

Thin wood sleepers (cheap ply that separates provide suitable wood) with brass tacks to which the rail is soldered. Look at the pictures of Peter Denny's Buckingham.

PCB sleepers to which rail is soldered.

Thin wood sleepers and moulded chairs ( C+L or Exactoscale) or cast whitemetal chairs (not sure if still available in 00)

Ply and rivet with cosmetic chairs.

C+L plastic sleepers and chairs.

 

Obviously the cast chairs are better looking than blobs of solder.

 

I would advise track gauges - at least two

Jigs for frog assembly I make from panel pins and scrap wood. I have some templates but usually just build use the prototype table of leads for varying frog angles.

You would be best seeing a demo where abouts are you?

Donw

 

Hi, Thanks for all the info, I've spent the last few hours chasing round looking at the various web sites. It would seem that C+L have just about everything you would need but not necessarily everything that you would be willing to buy. For example the frogs which I understand can be built quite easily once a jig is purchased ... just have to find the jig.

 

I didn't have any joy finding pictures of Peter Denny's Buckingham. There is certainly a lot about him when you do a google search but nothing with pictures.

 

With regard location I'm in Haworth, Nr. Keighley West Yorkshire. I think I shall have to go to a few more exhibitions and perhaps find somebody who's doing a demo.

D.

[Dan6470]

Dan:

you may find that your handbuilt points are a bit finer than 35-year-old trains can handle. Most of the plans that come are aimed at finescale modellers and either the flangeways or the check gauge will not take old HD.

I used to build points with no jigs at all.I'll admit that none of them are in service anymore.

I know the fellow that runs Fastracks. I think the jigs are worth the price if you're making a dozen identical turnouts.

 

You've spoilt my day now, can't run my "City of Stoke-on-Trent" or my "City of London" on new rails, probably won't be able to run my Triang "Britannia" either, and that has smoke .... terrible. Is it feasible to change the wheels on these dinosaurs and bring them into the twenty first century?

 

Also, today I received the Iain Rice book "An approach to building Finescale Track in 4mm", it came very quickly, I only ordered it yesterday afternoon. I shall have a read and see whether building points is something that I feel I would have the skill and patience for. I would certainly hope so having seen the video from Fastracks and also having seen the explanation that Gordon has provided on his Eastwood Town model. The Fastrack jigs look very interesting but if you have a lot of different points, slips and crossovers then I think it would prove quit costly, OK if you're a club or intend to build lots of model railways but this is my first. I'm not too sure that I can go to that expense.

 

Thank you for your help and advise.

D.

[Donw]

Peter Denny's layout has featured in recent Railway Modeller and British Railway Modelling as he has just sadly passed on.

 

I make my own frog jigs. Take a scrap piece of wood draw the required frog angle and then hammer in panel pins to hold the rail. If you can find suitable pins the same diameter or less than the required flangeway you can add the wing rails as well soldering the whole thing to scraps of brass etch. That is usefull for use with plastic chairs. I see if I can get a photo of one of mine.

 

Thinking about your old stock you may find it better to use PCB as you could get problems with the deep flanges foulling the plastic chairs. Rewheeling the locos would be extra expense. It is a question of priorities using what you have and keeping costs down or aiming for higher standards with extra work and cost.

 

Donw

[gordon s]

With regard your trackwork, which looks terrific, I notice that the points are all soldered onto pcb but the track is on chairs. Having looked at the C+L web page I notice that they supply kits to build the points using chairs, is there a reason that you decided to solder rather than use chairs?

D.

 

I spent most of my life in the electro mechanical component business so soldering was not really an issue for me. To be honest I didn't consider chair construction. On reflection, chairs are more realistic, but with 70+ sets of points to build, plus a large amount of woodwork, electrics and scenery, I would probably still go down the solder route as it suited me and is less fiddly. I built this crossover in around three hours a couple of evenings ago.

 

[hayfield]

Dan:

you may find that your handbuilt points are a bit finer than 35-year-old trains can handle. Most of the plans that come are aimed at finescale modellers and either the flangeways or the check gauge will not take old HD.

I used to build points with no jigs at all.I'll admit that none of them are in service anymore.

I know the fellow that runs Fastracks. I think the jigs are worth the price if you're making a dozen identical turnouts.

 

Dan

 

There is no problem with building turnouts so your old loco's can run on them. I think that code 75 will be too fine so you will have to use code 100 rail. No problem as Peco sell it in packs of either 6 or 12 yards. I would also recommend that you use C&L thicker sleepers (1.6mm)to match the thickness of Peco Streamline. I built some turnouts for a fellow modeller in code 100 bullhead rail, so there is no problem in useing code 100 flatbottom (I am about to build one to use with my older locos)

 

Copper clad construction is cheaper and to my mind easier than useing metal or plastic chairs. Its also the best medium to learn in. Making the V's and switch rails is also quite easy for sinple turnouts.

 

You will have to build the turnouts to coarse scale, which believe it is a little harder than to fine scale. But no real problems. The biggest problem on building the curved junction is getting a plan to work with, those of us who have Templot its quite an easy job, your problem will be to obtain a good plan to work with. I built a curved junction for a modeller in Italy and each of the 5 turnouts had a different radius, I was pleased with the finished item as the tracks flowed into each other on the curve

 

Cost is quite low, you can build 3 large radius turnouts from a pack of C&L copperclad sleepers, you may strech that to 4+ if you build them to the same size of Peco med or small turnouts. I use on averadge 1.5 yards of rail per turnout, again you will use less on smaller turnouts. So the maths is quite simple.

 

This thread may help http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/2178-copperclad-turnout-construction/.

 

If you have a go and get stuck there are plenty of us who will lend a hand. Good luck

[Pinkmouse]

Hi Dan, point building is fun, but don't get carried away by all the jigs sold on the open market, you can do without or make just about anything you need. However, do invest in a good set of gauges to check things both as you go along, and even to help hold things in place whilst fixing. And don't get hung up on how others build points, I think there are as many ways of building as there are builders! Read the book, check out other threads and sources on here and on the web, and build a couple of test items to see how you get on .Personally, I use ply timbering with Exactoscale plastic chairs, and no soldering apart from the droppers and vees, but I suspect many would completely disagree.

[Mallard60022]

Dan. Suggest you have a look at Hobby Holidays website. They have a weekend workshop set up and I did a track building one once with Norman Solomon, a professional track builder of top class standard. If there is a weekend coming up I can thoroughly recommend it (if you can wait for it to happen of course). The same chap has a DVD in the BRM Magazine series and that is excellent as well but not quite like doing the real thing with support! You will learn more than just making turnouts.

Whatever you choose to do good luck. Building your own turnouts is great fun. You can get ready made v s and I would always use the ready made blades on the first attempts.

My penneth worth of advice is:

build Code 75 fine-scale turnouts, use ready made Code 75 track (C & L or Scaleway) and have your old loco wheels reprofiled; costs a bit but worthwhile in my opinion.

Suggest you use solder turnouts in the out of sight areas (e.g fiddle yard) and (say) in yards where the track is inset or you can't really see the sleepers. If you have turnouts on the most viewed area of the layout I would use the C & L fittings on their plastic sleepers or (as I have done) the same fittings but using wooden sleepers (I got mine from EM Gauge Association). However C & L now do a wooden template set up for turnouts and this seems quite versatile although I have never used it.

Sincerely, 36E

[hayfield]

Dan

 

Further to my reply this morning I thought I could add a couple more suggestions.

 

One of your requirements was to keep the costs down, so I guess that reprofiling the wheels on your stock is out, so useing code 100 may be the favoured route.

 

If you are going to build from code 100 rail you need a pair of code 100 roller gauges, Marcway sell them http://www.marcway.co.uk/trackm.htm along with code 100 rail and sleeper strip. I prefer C&L sleeper strip as the sides are squarer and in the past the width of the sleepers are more consistant. I would use the 1.6mm thick strip to match the thickness of the Peco Streamline thack you have. C&L track gauges are for code 75

 

Your Peco track is built to HO standards as far as the width of the timbers, you could use the C&L 3.3mm wide Sleepers to match the Peco ones or use 4mm wide sleepers to match the prototype.

 

The Handmade track templates are fine, they will match your peco turnouts but if you want to use 4mm wide sleepers then you will have to do a bit of adjusting yourself.

 

As you will be building to coarse scale wheel drop at the frog / V may be a slight issue, you can use the same method as the RTR makers in putting in a thin packing piece of plasticard to allow the wheels to run accross the gap (the check rail will stop any lateral movement) without dropping. If you are building small radius turnouts you may need to hinge the switch blades (see the way Peco do it)as the switch rails may be too stiff.

 

As everyone has said no need to buy pre made V's of switch rails as an engineers file will quickly do the job. The hardest thing about building turnouts is starting, OK the first couple may not be the best but you will soon get the hang of it and in no time obtain the skills to make the junction.

 

You could always use some old off cuts of rail to start with, this will keep the price down.

 

Please show us how you get along with the building.

[hayfield]

Dan

 

Thanks for the pm Eastwood Town is very impressive and all the templates are from Templot, if you are going to build lots of turnouts then Templot will be a worth while investment. I dont think they have trial software but here's a link to Templot Club http://85a.co.uk/forum/ As you can see from Eastwood Templot will design a nice flowing curved Junction.

 

Eastwood use C&L thicker timbers which seems to matche very well with the Peco code 75 flexitrack. Dont worry about the finer scale rail as many fine layouts have been built using code 100. And if you want to run your old stock then you will need to use code 100.

 

No need to wait for your room to be cleared as the turnouts can be built on the workbench, and better to build a couple to get the hang of it before you need to build for real.

 

Please keep us informed

[gordon s]

Evening John, just to pick up on a couple of points...

 

I'm using the thinner pcb strips (1.06mm) from C & L on Eastwood. The rail is code 75 and the flexi is SMP not Peco.

 

Thought I ought to put the record straight...

[hayfield]

Evening John, just to pick up on a couple of points...

 

I'm using the thinner pcb strips (1.06mm) from C & L on Eastwood. The rail is code 75 and the flexi is SMP not Peco.

 

Thought I ought to put the record straight...

Gordon

 

Sorry for the miss description, I had a quick look and must have got the 2 threads mixed up in my mind. Still a great bit of modelling and must be very satisfying knowing you have encouraged a fellow modeller.

[gordon s]

Gordon

 

Sorry for the miss description, I had a quick look and must have got the 2 threads mixed up in my mind. Still a great bit of modelling and must be very satisfying knowing you have encouraged a fellow modeller.

 

No worries John and just to repay the compliment, your own tutorials are superb and very helpful to any newcomer who chooses to take up trackbuilding....

[Dan6470]

Thinking about your old stock you may find it better to use PCB as you could get problems with the deep flanges foulling the plastic chairs. Rewheeling the locos would be extra expense. It is a question of priorities using what you have and keeping costs down or aiming for higher standards with extra work and cost.

 

Hi Donw, thanks for your advice,

 

What is involved in re-wheeling a loco, is it something that only a professional should undertake or is it within the scope of the average hobbyist? I like the look of the finer gauge track and if it was possible to re wheel the locos myself then I would probably seek to sell the Peco turnouts on one of the auction sites, they're box never been used, albeit 35 years old.

 

Dan

[Dan6470]

I spent most of my life in the electro mechanical component business so soldering was not really an issue for me. To be honest I didn't consider chair construction. On reflection, chairs are more realistic, but with 70+ sets of points to build, plus a large amount of woodwork, electrics and scenery, I would probably still go down the solder route as it suited me and is less fiddly. I built this crossover in around three hours a couple of evenings ago.

 

That's an impressive crossover. Do you have any photographs of your turnouts painted and ballasted (that word doesn't look right ) ?

 

Dan

[Dan6470]

If you have a go and get stuck there are plenty of us who will lend a hand. Good luck

 

This is excellent, I appreciate the support and encouragement that I'm getting from you all and I haven't even started yet.

 

Thank you

Dan

 

 

Ps. I'm sorry that I have not used the Multi quote facility but I can't seem to get it to work.

 

 

reason for edit spelling mistake I mean typo:)

[Dan6470]

Dan. Suggest you have a look at Hobby Holidays website.

 

Hi 36E

It never occurred to me that such a thing existed

 

 

and have your old loco wheels reprofiled; costs a bit but worthwhile in my opinion.

 

This may be the way to go. Just to clarify reprofiled, you mean have the wheels replaced or do you mean actual reprofiled which I assume means reworked on a lathe?

 

Thanks

Dan

[martin_wynne]

Ps. I'm sorry that I have not used the Multi quote facility but I can seem to get it to work.

Hi Dan,

 

Click the MultiQuote button on each post you want to quote, and then click the Add Reply button at the bottom of the page.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[Dan6470]

Dan

 

Further to my reply this morning I thought I could add a couple more suggestions.

 

One of your requirements was to keep the costs down, so I guess that reprofiling the wheels on your stock is out, so useing code 100 may be the favoured route.

 

If you are going to build from code 100 rail you need a pair of code 100 roller gauges, Marcway sell them http://www.marcway.co.uk/trackm.htm along with code 100 rail and sleeper strip. I prefer C&L sleeper strip as the sides are squarer and in the past the width of the sleepers are more consistant. I would use the 1.6mm thick strip to match the thickness of the Peco Streamline thack you have. C&L track gauges are for code 75

 

Your Peco track is built to HO standards as far as the width of the timbers, you could use the C&L 3.3mm wide Sleepers to match the Peco ones or use 4mm wide sleepers to match the prototype.

 

The Handmade track templates are fine, they will match your peco turnouts but if you want to use 4mm wide sleepers then you will have to do a bit of adjusting yourself.

 

As you will be building to coarse scale wheel drop at the frog / V may be a slight issue, you can use the same method as the RTR makers in putting in a thin packing piece of plasticard to allow the wheels to run accross the gap (the check rail will stop any lateral movement) without dropping. If you are building small radius turnouts you may need to hinge the switch blades (see the way Peco do it)as the switch rails may be too stiff.

 

As everyone has said no need to buy pre made V's of switch rails as an engineers file will quickly do the job. The hardest thing about building turnouts is starting, OK the first couple may not be the best but you will soon get the hang of it and in no time obtain the skills to make the junction.

 

You could always use some old off cuts of rail to start with, this will keep the price down.

 

Please show us how you get along with the building.

 

I appreciate everything you say. I don't want to cause myself problems with working in "coarse scale" (is this a reference to code 100 trackwork). It seems that to go with code 100 purely to satisfy my requirement to run the old locos may not be the best route to follow. I shall have to see what is involved in re wheeling my present Locos - if it's a high cost then perhaps they don't all have to be done at once.

 

Dan

[Dan6470]

No need to wait for your room to be cleared as the turnouts can be built on the workbench, and better to build a couple to get the hang of it before you need to build for real.

 

That's a very good point - I'll have to look at the Templot site and see if this is something a feel I could drive.

 

Thanks

Dan

 

Ps. Once again very sorry for the individual posts this morning, Martin has provided the necessary info for using multiquote.

[gordon s]

That's an impressive crossover. Do you have any photographs of your turnouts painted and ballasted (that word doesn't look right ) ?

 

Dan

 

 

This area is a bit of a mess as I am having to take down some walls to fit the new crossing complex I am building right now. I still have the switch blades to fit, but should be finished in an hour or so.

 

Here's a pic of the existing crossing painted and ballasted. I will probably fill the insulation slots on the new junction to improve close up views of the sleepers.