English Language Usage

[Fat Controller]

A level geographers were told that, apart from an offensive gender specific slang, the word "dyke" might have three meanings. Firstly, an igneous intrusion, often vertical and of dolerite. Then, depending on local usage, the ditch or raised bank. A similar confusion exists over the term "levee". Text books describe the formation of raised banks alongside the edges of slow meandering rivers, yet Don Mclean wrote "the levee was dry". Clearly, in some parts of the US, the levee is the drainage ditch or return channel on the floodplain side of the big bank.

Oh, the correct term for a triangular shaped soft white bread cake is a scuffler.

'Levée' is a direct translation from the French for something that has been raised; the same source gave us 'levy'.

[E3109]

Certain former colonials seem to think that it was they, and not us, that invented railways.

 

'Tie' for sleeper

'Shove' for propel

'Unit' for loco

'Head end power' for ETH

'Truck' for bogie

'Gage' for gauge

'Switch' for shunt (in which case, why do they refer to points as 'switches' and yeah I know, our PW staff do the same)

'Car' for wagon

 

Etc

Etc

 

To be fair, the AAR buckeye should've been imposed on us a long time ago, like before I was born, then I wouldn't have deemed it 'weird' and perhaps a tad offensive when looking at locos/stock sans buffers.

 

I tell you one thing they just DON'T get though.

Vacuum brakes.

Try explaining that the res holds less than nothing and they're absolutely fecking flummoxed.

Done a bit of voluntary railway work in Asia not too long back, the auditors were from the US.

Trying to explain that a break in the vac pipe will cause the brakes to apply, well you may as well try to explain that black is white (or v/v).

[Pacific231G]

Certain former colonials seem to think that it was they, and not us, that invented railways.

 

'Tie' for sleeper

'Shove' for propel

'Unit' for loco

'Head end power' for ETH

'Truck' for bogie

'Gage' for gauge

'Switch' for shunt (in which case, why do they refer to points as 'switches' and yeah I know, our PW staff do the same)

'Car' for wagon

 

Etc

Etc

 

To be fair, the AAR buckeye should've been imposed on us a long time ago, like before I was born, then I wouldn't have deemed it 'weird' and perhaps a tad offensive when looking at locos/stock sans buffers.

 

I tell you one thing they just DON'T get though.

Vacuum brakes.

Try explaining that the res holds less than nothing and they're absolutely fecking flummoxed.

Done a bit of voluntary railway work in Asia not too long back, the auditors were from the US.

Trying to explain that a break in the vac pipe will cause the brakes to apply, well you may as well try to explain that black is white (or v/v).

Nobody invented railways, they were the result of a number of parallel developments mainly associated with the British industrial revolution's huge demand for minerals.  It is arguable that the modern railway, as a general transport system, came with the Liverpool and Manchester Railway and interesting that after that the Americans went their own way with its development earlier than anyone else and adopted techniques suited to their own conditions of long distances with relatively lighter traffic flows that only rather later fed back into the rest of the world.  Europe's railways were based on British practice for far longer hence the number of them that run on the left and the still standard use of side-buffers and some kind of chain to couple wagons together.  Interesting though that the interchangeable use of Railway and Railroad continued in both Britain and the USA for quite some time (and Canadians do use Railway when it's not Chemin de Fer) 

 

There had been attempts to agree on an automatic coupler in Europe to replace the "British" chain and buffers for generations but, apart from getting a whole lot of railways administratons to agree, the problem seems to have been that, with relatively small four wheel wagons, somethig like the AAR or the later Willison coupler is a relatively heavier and more expensive item than when fitted to something like a 40foot boxcar so adds proportionally more to the non-revenue weight.  With bogie passenger coaches that was less of a problem so AAR couplers were adopted for those in Britain. It's in reducing the overheads of shunting goods wagons that automatic couplers really bring benefits. Even though, in its basic form,  the AAR coupler isn't actually an automatic coupler as it has to be set and centred before coupling and manually "pulled" to uncouple, both are quicker  and less hazardous operations for shunters than coupling and uncoupling screw link couplers.

 

I assume the advantage of the vacuum brake was its relative simplicity. Having long assumed it to have been a British peculiarity in a world of Westinghouse brakes I was quite surprised to discover just how many narrow gauge railways in France, and presumably elsewhere as well, used it and continued to use it long after their standard gauge neigbours. Would the relative simplicity when using steam locos of an ejector over a Wesinghouse pump have been the main factor in this? Do vacuum ejectors use less steam - they certainly make less noise. I was even more surprised  to discover that a number of France's passenger carrying light railways didn't actually have continuous brakes at all and relied purely on the locomotive and the guard's screw brake as late as the 1950s. 

 

Despite using vacuum cleaners, the use of vacuum is probably alien to most people even though it was the whole basis of the steam engine before Trevithick. Try explaining why a vacuum condenser makes a compound marine engine a great deal more efficient (and why a steam locomotive is incredibly inefficient) and you might as well be trying to explain quantum  theory. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Pacific231G

[E3109]

Agreed with pretty much all of that squire.

But if I, as an Anglo-Saxon (well, 66% at least apart from a fair smidgen of immigrant blood) am gonna get the blame for colonialism and all the 'bad' it wreaked upon the world, then I may as well claim credit, as a British man, for inventing railways as an antidote.

 

The Janney/AAR is indeed an excellent coupling method and I can't fault it, but when supposedly qualified 'experts' refer to buffers and shackles as 'link and pin' then that's where I draw the line.

 

AAR vs buffers and shackles, well the AAR/buckeye wins overall.

But one thing the buckeye cannot do, is take up the slack in the way that standard UK/UIC can.

 

In a nutshell.

The Americans think they're 'the law' regarding railways.

 

They aren't.

[Ozexpatriate]

'Levée' is a direct translation from the French for something that has been raised; the same source gave us 'levy'.

And the application (both physically and linguistically) is mostly used regionally in what was once a French colony (prior to the Louisiana purchase) - though the word subsequently spread as common parlance throughout the non, historically-French Mississippi drainage.

 

In usages separate from riverine flood control, "berm" is more common.

[Fat Controller]

And the application (both physically and linguistically) is mostly used regionally in what was once a French colony (prior to the Louisiana purchase) - though the word subsequently spread as common parlance throughout the non, historically-French Mississippi drainage.

 

In usages separate from riverine flood control, "berm" is more common.

Also derived from the French, or at least the version spoken by Peter Sellers..

[NHY 581]

Also derived from the French, or at least the version spoken by Peter Sellers..

 

Agree.

 

Also gave us 'Leesaunce' and 'Minkee'

[Classsix T]

And a ferrrn in your reuum.

[doilum]

And the application (both physically and linguistically) is mostly used regionally in what was once a French colony (prior to the Louisiana purchase) - though the word subsequently spread as common parlance throughout the non, historically-French Mississippi drainage.

 

In usages separate from riverine flood control, "berm" is more common.

Levee is a literal description as not only the banks, but also the bed of the river becomes elevated above the flood plain. Today it is often difficult to distinguish between the natural embankment and human enhancement for flood control. Once water escapes the channel it cannot return, and follows alternative channels which eventually drain the flood plain. These only flow after floods and explain the chorus line from the song.

[Neil]

After some further work on my grumpy old man persona I can confirm that another emerging development of the English language is beginning to irritate me. It's the use of 'your' instead of 'the'. I first became aware of it on those sort of TV programmes where a presenter/estate agent shows people round a selection of properties, mainly abroad,  that they may wish to buy. Often delivered in nasal, Estuary English we hear 'this is your kitchen', 'your master bedroom has an en suite bathroom' or 'your roof terrace has views of the sea'. I'm not sure when viewing something conferred possession, it must have passed me by. However it seems to be spreading beyond estate agency, yesterday leaving Euston on the train I was treated to 'This is your 10.20 Virgin train service to ....'. Once upon a time when trains were painted blue then the train, or a small part of it, may have been mine but today it's Richard Branson's and I'm not sure that he'd be too happy his staff giving ownership back to the travelling public.

[John_Hughes]

After some further work on my grumpy old man persona I can confirm that another emerging development of the English language is beginning to irritate me. It's the use of 'your' instead of 'the'. I first became aware of it on those sort of TV programmes where a presenter/estate agent shows people round a selection of properties, mainly abroad,  that they may wish to buy. Often delivered in nasal, Estuary English we hear 'this is your kitchen', 'your master bedroom has an en suite bathroom' or 'your roof terrace has views of the sea'. I'm not sure when viewing something conferred possession, it must have passed me by. However it seems to be spreading beyond estate agency, yesterday leaving Euston on the train I was treated to 'This is your 10.20 Virgin train service to ....'. Once upon a time when trains were painted blue then the train, or a small part of it, may have been mine but today it's Richard Branson's and I'm not sure that he'd be too happy his staff giving ownership back to the travelling public.

 

Better blame the Swan of Avon for that usage! Your water is a sore decayer of your *** dead body. (Gravedigger in Hamlet).

[Pacific231G]

Agreed with pretty much all of that squire.

But if I, as an Anglo-Saxon (well, 66% at least apart from a fair smidgen of immigrant blood) am gonna get the blame for colonialism and all the 'bad' it wreaked upon the world, then I may as well claim credit, as a British man, for inventing railways as an antidote.

 

The Janney/AAR is indeed an excellent coupling method and I can't fault it, but when supposedly qualified 'experts' refer to buffers and shackles as 'link and pin' then that's where I draw the line.

 

AAR vs buffers and shackles, well the AAR/buckeye wins overall.

But one thing the buckeye cannot do, is take up the slack in the way that standard UK/UIC can.

 

In a nutshell.

The Americans think they're 'the law' regarding railways.

 

They aren't.

I agree with most of this too. Though nobody can claim to be the inventor of the modern railway there is, despite nonsense about Roman ruts, no question that their development took place in Britain. I'm looking at Larousse's  "les Chemins de Fer" published in 1964 and the first chapter written by Roger Guérard, the SNCF's head of statistics, lists by dates all the steps in the development of the modern railway. The only two claimed first for France up to the opening of the Liverpool and Manchester are Denis Papin's discovery of the elastic force of steam in 1671 and Nicolas Cugnot's construction of the first steam powered road vehicle in 1769, Every other step is properly ascribed to its British inventor or pioneer including a good number generally ignored in British histories. These include the first appearance in 1738 of iron to strengthen wooden rails in mines in Whitehaven, John Birkinshaw's development of wrought iron rails in 1820, Timothy Hackworth's invention of the blast pipe in 1825 and the first six coupled loco in 1827.  There is none of the sense that you get from some American sources that the railway may have been first developed in "England" (they don't get "Britain") but "we" learnt to do railroads properly.

 

I've never come across side buffers and schackles referred to as "link and pin" but it's obvious nonsense as the link and pin coupler acts to both draw and buff. 

[spikey]

Better blame the Swan of Avon for that usage! Your water is a sore decayer of your *** dead body. (Gravedigger in Hamlet).

Ye gods! So the expletive-deleter here is even sensitive to an adjectival noun (if that be what the apparently-offensive word in fact is) so rarely used that I'm pretty certain the last time I came across it was in O-level Eng Lit over 50 years ago!

[Pacific231G]

Ye gods! So the expletive-deleter here is even sensitive to an adjectival noun (if that be what the apparently-offensive word in fact is) so rarely used that I'm pretty certain the last time I came across it was in O-level Eng Lit over 50 years ago!

 

According to my Concise OED, the word w_h_o_r_e_s_o_n  (in case anyone was wondering) is an archaic word meaning 1, a disliked person 2. (attrib.)(of a person or thing) vile. It doesn't identify it as an adjectival noun from w_h_o_r_e and wouldn't that be ...some rather than ...son?

 

The expletive deleter here can be positively daft. A couple of weeks ago is disallowed sp erm whale in one of my posts. It now seems to be trying not to offend time travelling Elizabethans so we can probably forget about Maidenhead. 

[pH]

The expletive deleter here can be positively daft. A couple of weeks ago is disallowed sp erm whale in one of my posts. It now seems to be trying not to offend time travelling Elizabethans so we can probably forget about Maidenhead. 

 

Although it happily accepts a TLA which is a very rude Scots dialect word, which has resulted in some 'interesting' titles for topics. 

[Classsix T]

I told the expletive deleter I'd see him next Tuesday. "Righto!" he said with a cheery wave.

 

He's a berk.

 

C6T.

[APOLLO]

 

Brit15

[Ozexpatriate]

There are many variations on fruit and vegetables

French: Aubergine
Spanish: Berenjena
British English:  Aubergine
American English: Eggplant
 
French: Roquette
Spanish: Rúcula
British English: Rocket
American English: Arugula
 
French: Coriandre
Spanish: Cilantro
British English: Corriander
American English: Cilantro

 

Usually there's a strong preference for French food names dating back to the Normans - at least for the prepared foods, rather than the animals.

 

Animal / food name / French animal

Chicken / poultry / poulet

Cow / beef / boeuf

Sheep / mutton / mouton

Edited May 18, 2018 by Ozexpatriate

[E3109]

 

Brit15

The Thai word for pineapple is 'sapporot'.

They still adore that daft song though, as sung by the Japanese comedian whose name escapes me.

'Pen pineapple Apple pen' is the ditty.

If you aren't aware of it, you might wish to remain in ignorance!

 

Some things you can't unsee...

[Ruston]

 

 

 

The thing that really annoys me is the ever-growing use of text speak: "Hi m8, how r u?" - how much does it cost to add those few extra letters? especially now with predictive text on most phones, it must actually need more input to use the wrong version than to do it properly...

I used to moderate a Land Rover forum, where we banned the use of text speak. We adjusted the swear filter so that things such as that mentioned above were added to the filter and would appear on screen as "Unintelligible Text Speak".

 

Has anyone noticed people using the word 'defiantly' when they obviously mean definitely? It's something that I have noticed happening frequently on Facebook and internet forums. One recent example was after a photo of a loco ( Hattons Barclay, I think it was) was posted and someone said something along the lines of "That's really good. I am defiantly going to get one now".

Edited May 18, 2018 by Ruston

[Classsix T]

Not sure if the more senior members of this forum will find it particularly amusing, but search YouTube for Jack's Films and watch any episode of Your Grammar Sucks.

 

C6T.

[rockershovel]

Meanwhile, from yesterday’s Radio 4 .. The Financial Times has amended its style guide to allow the use of “data” in the singular, where it is used as a synonym for “information” - so it is now correct to write “data is..” or “data shows that...”

Edited May 19, 2018 by rockershovel

[Welchester]

Meanwhile, from yesterday’s Radio 4 .. The Financial Times has amended its style guide to allow the use of “data” in the singular, where it is used as a synonym for “information” - so it is now correct to write “data is..” or “data shows that...”

 

If I want to be really pretentious, I use 'agenda' as a plural.

[Pacific231G]

If I want to be really pretentious, I use 'agenda' as a plural.

I thought the accepted convention was that Latin words retain their singular and plural forms if they're still being used as Latin but take English forms once they've been accepted into the language. The obvious example was stadium which in Latin had the plural form stadia but it's now an accepted English word so the most commonly used  plural in most English dialects is stadiums (though Indian English still seems to prefer stadia) Treating an accepted English word as if it is still Latin probably is pretentious though the pretentious word for such pretention in English usage seems to be high register.

 

On agenda Oxford Dictionaries says this  "Originally agenda was the plural of agendum, meaning 'a thing to be done'. However, it became applied to a list of things to be done, and in this, the most usual modern sense, it has become firmly singular, with the plural agendas."

I don't seem to meet many agendas filled with things to be done. More often they're filled with things to discuss at great length and then defer.

 

There must be a better English word for agendum than the horrid action point.

Edited May 20, 2018 by Pacific231G

[Welchester]

High register? Moi?