Smart Meter = smart move?

[SamThomas]

1 hour ago, Michael Hodgson said:

If you need to exceed 100A for any length of time, I dread to think what your bill's going to be.

 

As for how much power the grid is going to have to supply through your substation, it will depend on what your neighbours are going to be using.  I assume like most places these days, there's quite a few houses with solar panels on the roof, who should be drawing less power (during the day) from the network, offsetting to some degree those who are simply drawing everything from the grid.  It may well be that there is a change in when the peak demand occurs if a lot of folk are drawing more power at night and less during the day - that is one of the justifications for pricing by time of day.  That in turn could alter the economics of having some sort of battery storage system, whether to save power you've generated yourself or power you buy from the grid

Many homes are quitre capable of drawing 85A + for short periods.

 

My house is the only one on the "leg" with solar panels. They do of course help the grid but only when the sun is shining - the grid still needs to have the capacity to supply the full load at times when the panels are producing little or nothing.

 

One of my biggest reasons for not wanting a so called smart meter is that I feel it should remain personal choice.

[Jonboy]

If you want some real fun chuck a 50amp kiln on the end of a rural supply line as described by @samthomas , and then watch the kiln manufacturer and electric supply trade blows over whether it is the kilns design or the supply that is causing all the neighbours lights to flicker as the voltage drops…

[ejstubbs]

There's an explanation for the rise in electricity standing charges in The Guardian money section this weekend: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/mar/06/why-is-my-standing-charge-up-by-80-energy-firms-pile-on-the-agony

 

After a lot of waffle to begin with, it eventually cuts to what appears to be the meat of the matter:

 

Quote

...network costs “inevitably go up, especially when inflation is high, as there are rising costs for wages, materials and so on”.

But a far bigger part of the increase is from the “supplier of last resort” scheme – every household is expected to pay the billions that have gone into rescuing customers from failed companies.

 

Last week, energy analysts at Cornwall Insight said they expected average annual dual-fuel bills could be as high as £2,900 come October.

 

“Regulatory changes ordered by Ofgem were already set to add around £30 to each customer’s standing charge,” says Andrew Enzor, managing consultant at Cornwall Insight. “Since then, there have been a wave of company failures, with each one requiring a bailout, the cost of which is being shared by all consumers.

 

“We calculate the cost will add a further £35 a year per household. Both of these are added to electricity bills

 

[SamThomas]

Interesting that those of us who stayed with the bigger suppliers are now having to effectively subsidise those that saved money by switching to smaller suppliers.

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, ejstubbs said:

There's an explanation for the rise in electricity standing charges in The Guardian money section this weekend: https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/mar/06/why-is-my-standing-charge-up-by-80-energy-firms-pile-on-the-agony

 

After a lot of waffle to begin with, it eventually cuts to what appears to be the meat of the matter:

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the link, it does not explain why there is so much disparity between the increase of standing charges between gas and electric. As its a result of supplier of last resort interventions I can only think everyone one is on mains electricity, but not mains gas (but this is a guess)

 

If you are a British gas customer pay via DDI, it will save you £18 a year. Whichever supplier you use its worth checking the offers available

 

From the guardian article on the above link (paying by DDI is cheaper)

 

British Gas has told customers its standing charges for electricity will be 45p for those with a direct debit, 50p for prepayment meters and 51p for cash and cheque. Gas standing charges will be 27p, 37p and 32p respectively. 

[Bill Eaton]

Sorry to spoil the party for those who are refusing to have a smart meter but nobody will be able to escape variable unit pricing by doing this, such people will just have to pay the higher rate all the time.

 

Smart meters have been promoted on the grounds that they save you energy. This is complete and utter nonsense. Smart meters are all about the implementation of government policies and the reduction of bad debts for the energy industry.

 

As is so often the case, the government misleads the people, aided and abetted by the media.

 

[SamThomas]

11 minutes ago, Bill Eaton said:

Sorry to spoil the party for those who are refusing to have a smart meter but nobody will be able to escape variable unit pricing by doing this, such people will just have to pay the higher rate all the time.

 

Smart meters have been promoted on the grounds that they save you energy. This is complete and utter nonsense. Smart meters are all about the implementation of government policies and the reduction of bad debts for the energy industry.

 

As is so often the case, the government misleads the people, aided and abetted by the media.

 

I have too many concerns with "smart" meters that have yet to be adressed/confirmed - I have raised these points with my electricity supplier & they remain unanswered.

However, the main reason is personal choice. I am getting increasing tired of experts/environmentalists telling me I must ;

No longer buy a new fossil fueled vehicle (after a certain date).

Fill my cavity walls with something that will prevent ventilation.

Increase my loft insulation with an irratant.

Replace my gas boiler with something far less effecient (such as a heat pump or electric).

Fit expensive technology to my heating system for a minimal return.

 

& so on.

 

[Graham108]

1 hour ago, SamThomas said:

Interesting that those of us who stayed with the bigger suppliers are now having to effectively subsidise those that saved money by switching to smaller suppliers.

The opportunity to switch supplier is available to everybody - just because you elected not to do so shouldn't make those who did feel guilty

[SamThomas]

1 minute ago, Graham108 said:

The opportunity to switch supplier is available to everybody - just because you elected not to do so shouldn't make those who did feel guilty

Not trying to make anybody feel guilty at all - can't see where I even suggested that.

[boxbrownie]

16 hours ago, SamThomas said:

Being an electrical engineer by main profession I am well aware of the common practice of the supply authorities main fuses being far in excess of the cable capacity.

When the meter was changed a few years ago I noticed that the fuse was 100a rating.

A 100a fuse will not blow the cable but will cause it to run warm. Couple that to all the other houses on that "leg" & you can see why my voltage goes up & down.

It’s their cable, if it runs warm it’s their hard luck 

 

Pretty sure (you must already know) that it is a regulatory order that the voltage can only vary between certain parameters 213 > 253 volts I believe?

 

I’ve heard of some people demanding and getting monitoring equipment from their supplier to check this.

[Reorte]

8 minutes ago, Graham108 said:

The opportunity to switch supplier is available to everybody - just because you elected not to do so shouldn't make those who did feel guilty

 

Frequently the world seems to work by a lot of people jumping on to something cheap, and with it an obviously increased risk of failure, and those who preferred to play it safer bearing the costs when it goes wrong. Always left to the prudent to bail out the failed risks of others.

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, SamThomas said:

Interesting that those of us who stayed with the bigger suppliers are now having to effectively subsidise those that saved money by switching to smaller suppliers.

Your not subsidising anyone, it’s the wholesale price of energy that has rocketed not the fact some people were paying less for theirs, everybody’s charges were rising or would have risen when the cap was raised regardless of who they were supplied by, it’s just the big companies have always charged more for profit driven by the need in law to look after their share holders, small private suppliers did not have that requirement to follow.

Edited March 7, 2022 by boxbrownie

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Bill Eaton said:

Sorry to spoil the party for those who are refusing to have a smart meter but nobody will be able to escape variable unit pricing by doing this, such people will just have to pay the higher rate all the time.

 

Smart meters have been promoted on the grounds that they save you energy. This is complete and utter nonsense. Smart meters are all about the implementation of government policies and the reduction of bad debts for the energy industry.

 

As is so often the case, the government misleads the people, aided and abetted by the media.

 

 

That's not the whole story, these meters save employing meter readers and the cost benefits are past on to the user

Having the meter read monthly reduces the chance of either building up a large deficit or balance when the estimated bill is incorrect

1 hour ago, Graham108 said:

The opportunity to switch supplier is available to everybody - just because you elected not to do so shouldn't make those who did feel guilty

 

I have never gone into a fixed rate, but like many have benefited from price caps which fail to cover the wholesale prices, also fixed rates can also be the more expensive alternative

 

1 hour ago, Reorte said:

 

Frequently the world seems to work by a lot of people jumping on to something cheap, and with it an obviously increased risk of failure, and those who preferred to play it safer bearing the costs when it goes wrong. Always left to the prudent to bail out the failed risks of others.

 

I was not being prudent when I chose to stay on the caped rate and at the time it was not the cheap rate, its a bit more complicated than your statement, plus everyone not just the prudent are paying for the failed companies

 

1 hour ago, boxbrownie said:

Your not subsidising anyone, it’s the wholesale price of energy that has rocketed not the fact some people were paying less for theirs, everybody’s charges were rising or would have risen when the cap was raised regardless of who they were supplied by, it’s just the big companies have always charged more for profit driven by the need in law to look after their share holders, small private suppliers did not have that requirement to follow.

 

My daughter switched companies 3 to 4 months ago, they were £500 in credit and are still waiting for their money to be returned. This is a company who are still trading and wanted my daughter to triple their monthly payment despite being so much in credit. Overcharging/subsidising the company for its pervious dealings, I do agree though we all received a benefit by one thing or another and have to pay for it with our ongoing payments.

[Metr0Land]

4 hours ago, Bill Eaton said:

Sorry to spoil the party for those who are refusing to have a smart meter but nobody will be able to escape variable unit pricing by doing this, such people will just have to pay the higher rate all the time.

 

Smart meters have been promoted on the grounds that they save you energy. This is complete and utter nonsense. Smart meters are all about the implementation of government policies and the reduction of bad debts for the energy industry.

 

As is so often the case, the government misleads the people, aided and abetted by the media.

 

 

I'm under no misapprehenion that I'll have to have one eventually but I live in a not-spot.  Ergo they will not work here (next door neighbour was bamboozled into having one who was told it's the law by a salesperson.... and is now regretting the day).  Until it's compulsory I am quite happy to supply meter readings at 3,6 or 12 month intervals as that's what I've been doing for years and it won't change with a 'smart' meter, so why have the hassle unless I'm forced by pricing to have to change?

[trevora]

9 minutes ago, Metr0Land said:

and is now regretting the day

How please

[phil-b259]

4 hours ago, Bill Eaton said:

Sorry to spoil the party for those who are refusing to have a smart meter but nobody will be able to escape variable unit pricing by doing this, such people will just have to pay the higher rate all the time.

 

Smart meters have been promoted on the grounds that they save you energy. This is complete and utter nonsense. Smart meters are all about the implementation of government policies and the reduction of bad debts for the energy industry.

 

As is so often the case, the government misleads the people, aided and abetted by the media.

 

 

You rather miss the point.

 

Such variable unit pricing charging only becomes an option once XX percent of the population have one (much like analogue TV could only be switched off once enough folk had gone digital or Leaded petrol only be banned once the number of cars still needed it had dropped below a certain threshold).

 

The more people who resist Smart Meter installations, the longer it takes to reach the threshold for variable unit pricing to be politically acceptable.

 

As with the other examples I gave that doesn't mean it will never happen of course - and when variable unit pricing comes in I will obviously get a Smart meter. Till that point though the Government and Energy companies can go s**** themselves.

[hayfield]

25 minutes ago, trevora said:

How please

 

All a smart meter does is efficiently tell the electricity provider how many units of power you use, plus if you want gives you a small consumer unit which gives you various display options.

 

If you are unhappy with your supplier then find an alternative one

If you do not want to see the information your consumer unit provides, don't use it

 

 

 

[Metr0Land]

30 minutes ago, trevora said:

How please

 

She's still having to submit regular meter readings, and the gizmo that's supposed to tell you how much you're consuming has never worked from Day 1.  Whilst her life isn't exactly a misery she's had the inconvenience of fitting meter and having 2 things that don't work as advertised, plus she knows she's been lied to.

[Metr0Land]

3 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

All a smart meter does is efficiently tell the electricity provider how many units of power you use, plus if you want gives you a small consumer unit which gives you various display options.

 

 

It doesn't tell the company anything if it doesn't work.

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

 

 

My daughter switched companies 3 to 4 months ago, they were £500 in credit and are still waiting for their money to be returned. This is a company who are still trading and wanted my daughter to triple their monthly payment despite being so much in credit. Overcharging/subsidising the company for its pervious dealings, I do agree though we all received a benefit by one thing or another and have to pay for it with our ongoing payments.

If as I suspect you mean they were switched because of their original company going bust then it is law that the original company passes the funds to the new company not the customer, it’s part of the regulations of the switch. We got a real letter from Shell Energy when we were switched when Pure Planet went bust stating we didn’t have to do anything all funds would be transferred automatically, and they did, it was all painless…..well apart from the rise in cost!

 

edit: sorry just reread your post and realise she switched herself to a better rate/company.

it is an unfortunate fact that some companies are a lot better (and honest) than others, that’s for sure.

Edited March 7, 2022 by boxbrownie

[great central]

Just a little example of how things may be going.  Don't want to frighten anyone.

We're on oil fired central heating, a few weeks ago I had 500 litres of oil delivered,  costing just under £350, before all the current problems started. This morning out of sheer curiosity I did an online quote for the same.  My usual supplier isn't taking orders for my area at the moment!

An alternative online source who claim to be cheapest,  but aren't,  is quoting just shy of £750!!!!

[boxbrownie]

7 minutes ago, great central said:

Just a little example of how things may be going.  Don't want to frighten anyone.

We're on oil fired central heating, a few weeks ago I had 500 litres of oil delivered,  costing just under £350, before all the current problems started. This morning out of sheer curiosity I did an online quote for the same.  My usual supplier isn't taking orders for my area at the moment!

An alternative online source who claim to be cheapest,  but aren't,  is quoting just shy of £750!!!!

Daughter has 5K litre tanks on the Farm and she had a tip off and had them filled just before the last sudden market panic increase, I think it went from about £3000 to £5000 a tank full the week later!

 

Mind you at the moment it’s the fertiliser price increases which is the main worry. 

[Ouroborus]

We had a bloke come through work moaning about the oil delivery man being able to turn off the pump on his tanker and in his words, "filling it right to the very top".  A few weeks on and i suspect he might be glad of his misfortune.

[Ouroborus]

On 05/03/2022 at 21:58, BMS said:

 

Relying on solar energy feeding a meter backwards is illegal and can result in an assessed bill and charges when discovered.  Guess what my original electric meter did, I remmber watching it count down......

 

What's the law being broken? 

 

The meter hasn't been tampered with, simply that on a sunny day, electricity may flow more in one direction than the other.  The PV was professionally installed at a time before smart meters.

 

I'm paying £3k a year at the moment for electricity, I'm really not worried about ever having a negative bill.

 

[SamThomas]

7 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

It’s their cable, if it runs warm it’s their hard luck 

 

Pretty sure (you must already know) that it is a regulatory order that the voltage can only vary between certain parameters 213 > 253 volts I believe?

 

I’ve heard of some people demanding and getting monitoring equipment from their supplier to check this.

It is indeed their hard luck if the supply cable runs warm.

 

ATM I have raised the issue regarding  voltage fluctuations with E*** who tell me to contact NG.

NG tell me I don't have a contract with them & to contact E.

I've referred E to the fact that I pay my standing charge to them (& previously to SEEBoard who were the supplier of electricity & owned the grid in my area) & therefore as they choose to sub-contract the grid to NG therefore they are responsible under contract law.

E insist that I have a contract with NG - I am still awaiting documentry evidence.

 

E will not accept my evidence data from my solar panels software so I am still awaiting a response for monitoring equipment.

 

*** My electricity supplier.