RhB news

[icn]

On 15/10/2022 at 13:26, icn said:

There's been a long-standing plan to use

There's been a long standing plan to use Capricorn's for the Landquart-Scuol section, to allow (half of) the Landquart-Davos and Landquart-Scuol trains to run as one until Klosters. Latest reports suggest this operation will start end of 2023  https://www.suedostschweiz.ch/ereignisse/ab-dezember-wird-bei-der-rhb-gefluegelt

 

In the meantime - starting 2022, they'll be using Capricorns for Landquart-Klosters-St. Moritz and the other half of the Landquart-Klosters-Davos connections (as one train until Klosters).

Oh in fact this was even in the Stadler spec from (I think) 2016:

https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/tmrhb0319d.pdf

 

And Stadler press announcement (in English) from 2019: https://www.stadlerrail.com/media/pdf/2019_0415_media release_rhb_roll-out_en.pdf

 

Given that it's also planned (or at least was) for Chur-Disentis I suspect they'll simply be continuing the entire route Disentis-Chur-Landquart-Scuol as before.

 

[PaulRhB]

All of which suggests apart from the Albula route tagged on the back of the Alvra sets, Engadine to Pontresina, Bernina and Arosa all freight will move in dedicated trains mostly with the remaining 4/4ii’s. 
I’m guessing the Landquart, Susch Samedan and Landquart - Disentis freight can be handled by single locos and the longer Albula ones will use double headers as now. 

[Glorious NSE]

On 22/10/2022 at 16:51, PaulRhB said:

All of which suggests apart from the Albula route tagged on the back of the Alvra sets, Engadine to Pontresina, Bernina and Arosa all freight will move in dedicated trains mostly with the remaining 4/4ii’s. 
I’m guessing the Landquart, Susch Samedan and Landquart - Disentis freight can be handled by single locos and the longer Albula ones will use double headers as now. 

I'm interested to see how they work it.

I think there's maybe some likelihood of one-off mixed trains on the other routes in the very early mornings, trains like R4718 from Ilanz to Chur or RE4011* Landquart to Davos for instance - but the capability that odd wagons get attached to the back of things throughout the day goes over much of the network. Presumably that means on some routes there will be additional dedicated freight workings as the single freight connection of today won't be able to allow wagons to do a round trip in the day.

(*RE4011 I could see being run by a 4 car Allegra rather than hauled stock, as I think they will have two of the five sets un-diagrammed, and the trailing load is never more than a single wagon.)

[PaulRhB]

21 minutes ago, Glorious NSE said:

(*RE4011 I could see being run by a 4 car Allegra rather than hauled stock, as I think they will have two of the five sets un-diagrammed, and the trailing load is never more than a single wagon.)

Yes that’s why I’m surprised they didn’t do a batch with manual couplings to use on some services. Same traction knowledge just need set diagrams. I guess one Allegra could be spared but one needs to be on maintenance. Interestingly last month we did note quite a bit of bubbled corrosion around the windows on two Allegras so it looks like the early problems with the paint sealing and coming off when vinyls were changed haven’t been totally solved. 

[MikeB]

On 24/10/2022 at 12:38, Glorious NSE said:

I'm interested to see how they work it.

I think there's maybe some likelihood of one-off mixed trains on the other routes in the very early mornings, trains like R4718 from Ilanz to Chur or RE4011* Landquart to Davos for instance - but the capability that odd wagons get attached to the back of things throughout the day goes over much of the network. Presumably that means on some routes there will be additional dedicated freight workings as the single freight connection of today won't be able to allow wagons to do a round trip in the day.

(*RE4011 I could see being run by a 4 car Allegra rather than hauled stock, as I think they will have two of the five sets un-diagrammed, and the trailing load is never more than a single wagon.)

The early morning RE 4011 mixed train is currently diagrammed for an Allegra, working back to Landquart as passenger train 1018, after which the set has the rest of the day off (except on Saturdays when it does a return trip to Arosa). This tends to the first Allegra diagram to be worked by a Ge 4/4/ II if all the Allegras are needed elsewhere or are unavailable.

 

Similarly, the early morning RE 4307 mixed train from Landquart to St Moritz is worked by an Allegra, which then spends time on the Bernina, whereas all other LQ-SMOR workings are Capricorns.

 

Haulage capacity is not a problem for the Allegras.  From next week, with the autumn timetable and fewer BEX workings, more Allegras are diagrammed for regular freight workings:

The LQ-DAV set also works an evening  freight from Landquart to Klosters and a mixed train from there to Samedan. 

The next day it hauls an Albula freight working to Chur/ Landquart and back before freight workings to Pontresina, Scuol-Tarasp and Landquart. 

Another set after a trip working to Felsburg goes from Chur via Albula to Samedan and via Vereina back to Landquart.

 

Despite the large number of Capricorns for most passenger workings, the  Ge 4/4IIIs and Allegras need high availability for the Albula expresses / Vereina car shuttles and Arosa / Bernina passenger and mixed trains respectively so it seems as if the Ge 4/4IIs will be needed until some new locos or  emus capable of hauling wagons and coaches are obtained. 

 

 

 

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, MikeB said:

so it seems as if the Ge 4/4IIs will be needed until some new locos or  emus capable of hauling wagons and coaches are obtained. 

Yes although we know the 1973 batch will be going in the next few years in theory. It will be interesting to see once the Capricorn’s are all delivered if there are enough without those. I guess they could refurbish some if it becomes apparent they need more or think of a replacement. 

 

2 hours ago, MikeB said:

Haulage capacity is not a problem for the Allegras. 

Not the 3 car ones but it is for the ex commuter 4 car ones as they are half the power. I wonder if an upgrade for those would be possible as it would cover the retiring locos?

[Glorious NSE]

21 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

 

 

Not the 3 car ones but it is for the ex commuter 4 car ones as they are half the power. I wonder if an upgrade for those would be possible as it would cover the retiring locos?

Yes, I was careful to say the 4 car ;)

Just on a tangent - whatever happened to the additional pair? of GE4/4iii they were reported to have picked up secondhand, from memory they were expected to be added to the fleet at the time but they don't seem to have been so far.

Did the sale not happen, or have they just been a handy parts supply maybe?

[MikeB]

21 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

Yes although we know the 1973 batch will be going in the next few years in theory. It will be interesting to see once the Capricorn’s are all delivered if there are enough without those. I guess they could refurbish some if it becomes apparent they need more or think of a replacement. 

 

Not the 3 car ones but it is for the ex commuter 4 car ones as they are half the power. I wonder if an upgrade for those would be possible as it would cover the retiring locos?

Yes, I should have been specific that I was thinking of the 3-car Allegras.

Interesting that today a four car Allegra (3104) was booked for the morning mixed train up from Landquart to Davos instead of a  scheduled three car Allegra, while one of the latter (3514) has three runs with freight specials on the Albula. The Fiiisur webcam shows a mix of maintenance equipment and logs on the first journey.  https://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/m221026082254763

 

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, Glorious NSE said:

Did the sale not happen, or have they just been a handy parts supply maybe?

I read somewhere they’d only got one of them and it would go through the works but I’ve seen no details after that. 

[PaulRhB]

Here we go, 8003 sold to the RhB in 2019

 

https://www.railvolution.net/news/goldenpass-express-at-the-start

“The GPX NMUs are hauled by locomotives:
- Class Ge 4/4 III of MOB (No. 8001, 8002, 8004, length 16.69 m, weight 62 t) on the Montreux - Zweisimmen section, electrified with 900 V DC (8003 is not listed as it was sold to RhB in 2019), 
- Class Re 465 BLS (length 18.5 m, weight 84 t) on the Zweisimmen - Inter-laken section, with overhead line energised at 15 kV 16.7 Hz.”

 

This pic appears to show it at Landquart

 

https://m.facebook.com/info24SchweizEuropa/photos/a.2582540631797254/2728602507191065/?type=3

 

Edited October 26, 2022 by PaulRhB

[Glorious NSE]

Looks suspiciously like it was a Christmas Tree unfortunately :( 

[PaulRhB]

35 minutes ago, Glorious NSE said:

Looks suspiciously like it was a Christmas Tree unfortunately :( 

I’ve popped the question on our RhB forum to see if anyone knows more. All I’ve found is this pic of it arriving and comments saying it was the prototype for the 4/4iii refurbishment but 644,650 & 651 have gone through it and no sign of 653

 

https://m.facebook.com/groups/463316433688348/posts/2454833327869972/?mibextid=HsNCOg&refsrc=deprecated&_rdr

 

[PaulRhB]

The only additional info so far is that someone read there have been issues converting the electrical equipment but the project is still on. 

[JimFin]

This is an answer I got.

 

"It is being VERY slowly worked by the RhB as part of the overall project to do a traction technology refresh on the RhB Ge 4/4 III loco fleet. AFAIK, the existing MOB traction package has been largely removed.

RhB has other things soaking up money right now so the Ge 4/4 III refresh is very much a back-burner project. Eventually Ge 4/4 III number 653 will emerge with the new traction package and after testing/tweaking, the same package will retrofitted to the whole Ge 4/4 III fleet."

[PaulRhB]

23 minutes ago, JimFin said:

Eventually Ge 4/4 III number 653 will emerge with the new traction package and after testing/tweaking, the same package will retrofitted to the whole Ge 4/4 III fleet."

Other reports suggest 644

https://railcolornews.com/2017/01/16/ch-mid-life-revision-for-ge-44-iii-of-the-rhatische-bahn/

 

then more recently 647, 50 & 51 got the upgrade unless they are going to shop them again after the overhaul and repaint, that seems unlikely unless the electrical upgrade is being delayed now for the next major overhaul. 
 

I hadn’t realised before but it appears the 4/4iii’s might have got a different paint scheme as 644 appears to have been tried in plain red

http://www.haribu.ch/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=14082
 

 

And with wings either side of the shield

http://www.haribu.ch/coppermine/displayimage.php?pid=17305

 

Before getting the record livery as well. Looks like it was a bit of a livery test bed over the last few years!

Edited October 31, 2022 by PaulRhB

[Glorious NSE]

That's an interesting 2016 article - if the LED lights are a reliable spotting feature* of a refurb, then 641-644, 646-648 were done by the time I visited in Aug 2020. 645, 649, 651, 652 were not done at that time, and 650 wasn't out and about when I was there (or it avoided me if it was!) as far as I could tell.

A 2016 plan to get them all upgraded by 2019, but with IRL several still to do by 2020 tallies up with the "back burner project" take.

FWIW I kinda like the wings version, that would have been classy.

(*And I appreciate changing the old headlights out is the kind of think that conceivably might be coincidental!)

 

[Glorious NSE]

GE4/4ii and hauled stock/push pull trailer set on one of the Chur-St Moritz services today  - different!

Just passed Filisur heading south.

https://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/m221212140202263

[PaulRhB]

7 minutes ago, Glorious NSE said:

GE4/4ii and hauled stock/push pull trailer set on one of the Chur-St Moritz services today  - different!

Just passed Filisur heading south.

https://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/m221212140202263

There was one set using the older stock some days when I was there but it seemed to go up early and come back late with and Allegra or 4/4iii. Never did figure out what it was forming as it wasn’t running the service all day like the one you’ve spotted. One of the glorious things about the RhB that almost anything goes. That’s the only thing with the Capricorn’s not being able to couple you anything else it limits the oddball formations. 

[Gordonwis]

On 12/12/2022 at 13:06, Glorious NSE said:

GE4/4ii and hauled stock/push pull trailer set on one of the Chur-St Moritz services today  - different!

Just passed Filisur heading south.

https://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/m221212140202263

 

 

Not seen that sort of thing for a while.

 

Just as interesting is the train a bit later (looks like an Alvra set with a trailing Gourmino and an EW, pushed by EMS with post containers trailing that!:

 

https://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/a221212150310790

 

 

[PaulRhB]

On 12/12/2022 at 13:06, Glorious NSE said:

GE4/4ii and hauled stock/push pull trailer set on one of the Chur-St Moritz services today  - different!

Just passed Filisur heading south.

https://www.schmalspurbahn.ch/filisur/webcam/m221212140202263

 

This was one of the non Alvra sets we saw in September going up the S curve at Bergün around 18:20. 

[Glorious NSE]

The Allegra hauled ones seem to be the standard stand-ins if you know what I mean, not seen a GE4/4ii show up for ages on one tho, nice to see! 




Other news, from the webcams it looks a bit like the 4 car Allegra's are back to their old Chur area commuter diagrams again after doing Scuol-Pontresina's for a bit?

[PaulRhB]

9 minutes ago, Glorious NSE said:

Other news, from the webcams it looks a bit like the 4 car Allegra's are back to their old Chur area commuter diagrams again after doing Scuol-Pontresina's for a bit?

So what’s on the Scuol Pontresina now then, Capricorns? The Bever webcam always seems to catch Albula services when I’m on 😆 The four car sets seemed ideal for that as they could hook coaches or wagons on and they certainly weren’t slow with a driving trailer and extra coach in tow. 

[PaulRhB]

13 minutes ago, Glorious NSE said:

The Allegra hauled ones seem to be the standard stand-ins if you know what I mean, not seen a GE4/4ii show up for ages on one tho, nice to see! 

Yes they were all Allegra’s that I saw and I’m guessing a 4/4ii probably stood in to replace it in your link? It’s the same short set , 4 coaches, baggage and driving trailer, they’ve not tried to replace the three Allegra coaches. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by PaulRhB

[MikeB]

3 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

So what’s on the Scuol Pontresina now then, Capricorns? The Bever webcam always seems to catch Albula services when I’m on 😆 The four car sets seemed ideal for that as they could hook coaches or wagons on and they certainly weren’t slow with a driving trailer and extra coach in tow. 

The Scuol Pontresina workings are now booked for Ge 4/4 IIs. The Albula passenger wokings are nearly all Ge 4/4 IIIs, with one diagram worked by an Allegra.  Now that two more Allegras are needed on the Bernina with the withdrawal of the TWIIIs from local trains, if there's a shortage of Ge 4/4IIIs I assume they have to use a Ge 4/4II on Chur-St Moritz , so this may happen from time to time in the future. 

Edited December 21, 2022 by MikeB
spelling corrected

[Gordonwis]

8 hours ago, MikeB said:

 The Albula passenger wokings are nearly all Ge 4/4 IIIs, with one diagram worked by an Allegra. 

 

The long term plan was always for the Albula to be 100% Ge4/4III + Alvra set. The only reason Allegras have been used on the Albula IR's these past few years is as a stop gap until the required number of Ge4/4III had been through the 'refit' programme (which has taken longer than most enthusiasts envisaged , perhaps.