ECC Wheal Imogen / Rosevean Station: the expansion

[The Fatadder]

HSTs are proving a massive distraction at the moment, I am not entirely sure that a HST would fit on the layout with the powercars touching each end of the fiddleyards and coaches the whole way in between...  However those thoughts of modelling a small chunk of Laira just wont go away.  To that end I keep making sketches to see if I can come up with something with about a 5ft scenic length (and a 900mm traverser) focused around the heavy repair section of the depot, in particular seeing if I can make my previous plans somewhat narrower.) 

 

Once I have picked up the new fiddleyard next week, my plan is to try setting up Wheal Imogen to see how it is actually running (after clearing away yet more rust).  If reliable enough to do a few shows while I build "Laira" that will likely be the chosen project.  If not then I think it will have to be another clay project (using new baseboards).  

One other concept that has been kicking around in my head for a while now rather combines the two.  About 20 years ago I built a generic diesel depot layout based around the concept that Laira had never happened and instead was built at Tavistock Junction.  I have been mulling the idea of resurrecting this concept and having the heavy works architecturally inspired by Laira located out at Tavy Junction.  In turn this gives much more scope for moving things around that is needed to work with my requirements size wise, but also allows for the branch to be incorporated.  This at the very least allows for the shuttling of clay trains across the front of the layout, but further stretching reality why not have the GWR branch as the survivor running to Tavistock  rather than the SR to Callington......   I would love to be able to get away with combining Laira with a mainline layout, but then things are starting to get very big (at which point I would be far more tempted by my long term goal of Bodmin Parkway).    It will be interesting to see what I can come up with, both in the 5ft by 18 inch footprint and the full 8ft, and then see which of the two proposed layouts makes the most sense... 

 

Should it go ahead the plan will utilize a mixture of new Hornby and improved Lima powercars.  Last night I started looking at the latter, pulling together a plan of the improvements:

• Cooler Group - two powercars need Serek grills (fortunately my Virgin liveried Hornby powercars need Marston grills freeing up the required parts).  I have a drawing previously shown, to 3d print the Marston grills.
• Underframe - will need replacing with separate components (including the air tanks and ETH sockets at the rear)
• Paint - fixing Lima's overspray, repaint the upper white stripe (which has poor colour density), lower front fairing should be green not black, inside of light clusters should be black not white.
• Cab roof - The lima model protrudes too far and has a continuous curve, it should be a lot flatter and closer to the windscreen
• Add brass handrails 
• Fit lighting 
• Cab front is missing the lip which runs across just below the windscreen 
• Headlight Lenses - As it comes the Lima part has 6 cylinders attached to the inside, once the inside of the cluster is painted black these start to look like the refurbished light clusters.  The answer is to carefully cut them off and polish the inside of the lens.  I need finer grades of wet & dry to finish this, but even crudely done (on the right in the photo) I think its an improvement. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 13, 2022 by The Fatadder

[Siberian Snooper]

ISTR there was a layout on the circuit that was called Embankment Lane that featured the the engineering shop, with the shed part as a low relief backscene.

 

 

[The Fatadder]

As mentioned earlier Ive now had a play with my previous plan to see what I can come up with fitting on a 6ft by 500mm baseboard (or more likely two 3ft by 500mm).  I have cut one siding out of the previous design and played with the angles a bit.  The big question is going to be whether it will fit under Brent's fiddleyard ok I cant remember the clearance off hand).  Next I will adapt the other plan shown previously in the same way to give a contrast.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a really good option for the next project.  It should be quite interesting to run (giving the mix of movements in the depot and the branch).  I would see it as having various powercars both moving under their own power and being shunted by one of Laira's 08s.   There is also the potential for a Class 47 to arrive towing a barrier coach and a failed powercar (and of course also the option for coaches to be undergoing heavy maintenance.

The backscene would again be made up from a set of my mk3s, while the buildings / crane would be based on Laira / Bath Road.  Some thought would still be needed as to how to make the mass of track look a bit more interesting.   I would also need to give a little more thought as to how I would hide the track exit on the right hand side...

 

[Neal Ball]

I’m interested in what you are going to do with the HST Rich.

 

In my cull this week of surplus stock, I have held onto both my HST sets…. One of which is a Lima merlin liveried set. Ages ago I bought a Hornby cross country HST with the idea of using the mech inside the old Lima power car. Needless to say it’s a stalled project.

 

I am still interested in pursuing it, but the focus still has to be my 1930’s GWR.

 

Good luck with your deliberations.

[The Fatadder]

1 hour ago, Neal Ball said:

I’m interested in what you are going to do with the HST Rich.

 

In my cull this week of surplus stock, I have held onto both my HST sets…. One of which is a Lima merlin liveried set. Ages ago I bought a Hornby cross country HST with the idea of using the mech inside the old Lima power car. Needless to say it’s a stalled project.

 

I am still interested in pursuing it, but the focus still has to be my 1930’s GWR.

 

Good luck with your deliberations.

from memory it was a pretty straight forward fitting the Lima body to the Hornby chassis.  I have the lowered end in the study so have taken it apart to check.   
 

The Lima body was modified to remove the two mounting screw pillars from the centre. The rear glazing also has to be cut to get a separate part (the U shape plastic hits the block)

I’ve yet to fit a cab interior, as this will be done when I finally sort out the lighting.

 

I will try and remember to get a photo of the insides of the unpowered end later as I recall this was slightly different.  From memory a lot less modification was needed.

 

in both cases the lower nose fairing slides over the chassis (which has corresponding shape) and this works well at holding it in place

[Neal Ball]

Thanks for the HST details Rich.

[The Fatadder]

A little effort cobbled together at lunch today based on an idea that came to me over the Easter weekend.    The logic was along the lines of "why bother having most of the layout taken up with the buildings (and not a lot happening), wouldnt it be better to model the approach to the depot.   

The plan keeps the two storage sidings at the rear and the branch at the front (adding a short platform).  It would be bookended by two road bridges with a traditional bridge to the left and a modern duel carriageway crossing to the right.  I have also drawn the 3ft either side of the layout which both helps with the context as well as allowing for future expansion (either a more scenic board with more of the approach and the other half of the run around loop, or to the right with the Laira inspired shed buildings.  The left hand corner of the board would be filled with some houses.     It still retains quite a lot of track in the available space, so getting the ground cover looking interesting will remain critical.

[The Fatadder]

I am rather liking this plan, so have spent a bit of time on further refinement this evening.  One of the issues I originally had on Wheal Imogen when I was first looking to expand it (prior to the discovery of the rust) was that I  only designed the bit that I was modelling.  So as soon as I started looking to expand the layout things didnt quite work as intended.  With this plan I want to ensure that I dont have the same problem (even if the chances of expansion are lower).  To that end I have spent some time this evening redrawing everything in order to show it as part of the surrounding track, adding in the connections between the rear stabling sidings and the through line, along with adding the next 3ft or so of the depot.   The majority of the HST storage as well as the fuel point would be off scene (though I am tempted to add the wash plant on one of the two lines modelled at the rear or the layout).

 

The right hand (3ft red box) extension doesnt really add a great deal more operationally (other than the one extra point), but would add more visual interest.  The left hand board (4ft)  would add more interest (as it opens up the use of the rear sidings plus the connection between the runaround loop and the branch).  However to make use of this you would need a HST length fiddleyard (so it would at the very least need a U shape with a 180 degree curve.  Certainly talking distant future on that front, but its nice to know that if the layout is well received on the circuit the option is there...

 

In all likelihood it would only ever be the two initial black boards (as no doubt when it came to the point of making an extension I would get tempted by something else).   I am unsure about keeping the points connecting the right hand side of the runaround loop to the yard (in essence making a second runaround loop), as it feels rather redundant (and would loose 2 points (although add a catch point).

 

The big question remains gauge, be it OO or P4 it will still need all of the points making from scratch as I have used different geometry in order to make the points fit the location (rather than the track plan fit the points).  At present all the stock for the branch is P4, as is one HST set.  The rest of the HST fleet , plus the majority of the Class 47s which will appear are in OO.    So far the plan is drawn to P4, but my mind is flipping between the two on an almost daily basis.  

 

In P4 it will look better, probably have a bit more of a standout quality to the layout from an exhibition perspective (ticking the box of being a finescale diesel layout rather than yet another OO diesel depot, and allows for a prolonged duel use of this and Wheal Imogen (given the branch stock would be shared).

 

On the other hand in OO, I am much more likely to get a much better quality of running, it avoids the expense of sourcing all the extra wheels which would be needed to convert additional HST sets / 6 Hornby HST powercars and probably the same again of rebuilt Lima ones, and it better positions things for a potential continuous run exhibition layout a few years in the future. 

 

 

[The Fatadder]

Stepping away from layout planing, some HST modelling instead.  After successfully printing my new parts

 

first up the mk3, now with eth sockets and end steps.  
these just glue in place on the inside of the chassis moulding, there are holes per prepared for adding the cables, although I’ve yet to fit them. 
 

Next up the marston roof grill for the HST powercar.

 

Hornby Marston fitted powercar below and a Serek fitted example above (which has had the grill removed).  As can be seen the hole needs to be a lot bigger.

 

At which point the new grill can be fitted.  The two side plates are in slightly the wrong place on the print so are removed and refitted separately (this will remain the case as it’s a lot easier to print it as one unit).

the grill is glued in position and then the two  outer flat edges are glued on.  Finally for a ex Serek example an edge is added to the panel from 10 thou evergreen strip 

 

 

I have also tried it on a Hornby powercar, although it was a poor choice as this one needs a Serek cooler group!  I have another GWT powercar coming on Sunday with the same number so this will get a partial re spray and renumber.

 

I have two more printed, but now I know it works I will sort out the others.   That said, I still need to work out a solution for the Serek grill as I will need a few more of those, along with drawing up the radiators to sit under both versions 

Edited April 20, 2022 by The Fatadder

[The Fatadder]

At the Members Day in Taunton I picked up a pair of Hornby HST powercar's from the late BGman's estate with plan being to finish off his project and get a pair of GWT powercars using the new Hornby model.  After searching through BGman's Bizarre at Taunton I was very pleased to stumble across the critical missing component of the headlight assembly for the partially repainted powercar, along with its doors.  I think the glazing got damaged at some point (other than the cab front window which was perfect).  Alas it has spent a long time in storage part finished, which coupled with a couple of areas where the old EMT livery is showing under the paint means I will strip and spray both powercars, along with checking over the chassis to see why it wont currently run.  eBay has already come through with a part of the missing cab interior, along with a new set of doors (for their glazing).  I think the tricky curved cab side windows should be possible through modifying Lima glazing, which just leaves fabricating a new LED lighting board.

 

 

 

The first powercar is missing a few bits, the only glazing was for the cab front window (thankfully), it is also missing its cab interior.  Thankfully ebay has come through with a replacement cab interior (all be it one that is missing its seats and LED unit).  The former will be an easy fix with the printer, the lights will take more thought.  Thankfully the model still has the headlight / nose grill assembly which really would have been impossible to obtain!

 

 

So far I have removed all the glazing, handrails, cab interior and the headlight assembly from both powecars.  The cab window is a little unusual in that it is fitting from the outside (with two clips holding it in place on the inside.)  Naturally these clips had to be snapped off, so it will no doubt need gluing in place once the paintwork is finished.  

It was the headlight assembly I was most worried about removing, however in the end this turned out to be really easy.  After removing the cab interior (a small bit of glue on both sides of the unit), pushing inwards the headlight unit just popped straight out! 

 

 I had originally planned to do one Marston and one Serek cooler group, but the Voith grills on the EMT powercars dont really lend themselves to this conversion so its more likely I will use my spare Hornby grill on a Lima powercar.  Both of these will get my 3d printed cooler group (along with some plasticard to infill the gaps) once I have stripped the paint.  Speaking of which they will be getting a bath in IPA this evening assuming  I can find a suitable container...

Edited April 25, 2022 by The Fatadder

[The Fatadder]

After a lot of effort scrubbing with a toothbrush and a new bottle of 99% IPA I now have two stripped HST powercars.

The next job was to prepare the roof, cutting a hole for the new grill and filling the gaps from the old one.  Gaps were filled with plasticard off cuts before cutting and filing to shape.  I need to print a second grill so only one is currently fitted
Untitled by The Fatadder, on Flickr

This was then followed by adding the beading around the edge of the panel using Evergreen strip (as per the Virgin powercar previously)

Untitled by The Fatadder, on Flickr

I will get a new grill printed soon, then it’s ready to give it a coat of white primer.
 

[The Fatadder]

The HST powercars are now waiting on a print for the other cooler group, then a coat of primer.  After which the project will get parked until a spell of warmer weather to do the spraying, I am hopeful for good conditions over the double bank holiday…

 

a little mini project in the mean time, a bus for the bridge on Wheal Imogen (and any future modern layout).   A layland  double dominant from Basetoys, it came in Wallace Arnold livery with a central metal band.  The branding was all removed with IPA and it is in the process of being repainted into C J Down of Mary Tavy’s livery as my old school bus (before it lost a head collision on with a farmers defender).  It still needs custom transfers (which will be done when I sort my Serco transfers), the red stripe adding and a pair of silver bands either side of it.

 

One other modification was to add the missing emergency exit door on the drivers side. 
 

I am trying to work out how to get inside, clearly something other than the screws is holding the floor on.  I’d like to add passengers and a driver (and more importantly add a coat of mat varnish)

[The Fatadder]

A little painting last night, 

the first powercar is now primed, pretty pleased as there was just the one spot where rework was needed I remove a tiny dot of old paint that hadn’t lifted, along with a touch of filler around the new roof grill.

 

 

I still haven’t fitted the second powercar with a roof grill, I think the last TTA print had a minor failure with two tiny corners not printing entirety. So I want to drain the tank before reprinting.   I just keep forgetting to do it….

 

on the bus front the next colour has now been added, so it’s just the silver stripe (and eventually the transfers, to finish it off

[Siberian Snooper]

The coach is starting to look like one of Clifford's fleet.

 

 

 

 

[The Fatadder]

I’m quite pleased with how it’s coming together, I can’t find a photo of the exact bus I’m modelling. The two photos of this model in Down’s fleet that are on Flickr are both in plain cream, this similar bodied coach shows what I’m aiming for https://flic.kr/p/bxAzmR

As from memory Tav 15 was at one point in that condition 

 

will get the silver stripes added this evening, then it’s stuck waiting on me sorting out the transfers 

 

[The Fatadder]

The next step on the bus, just needs its transfers sorting now.

 

I still haven’t printed the other HST roof grill though.  Must crack on and get it done this afternoon, looking at the forecast I may be able to get the first colour sprayed over the long weekend (and maybe the second as well….)

 

the plan is ivory all over, mask the white /yellow areas off and spray green, then yellow ends, buff and finally the grey/black bits 

[The Fatadder]

More progress with the powercars now sprayed ivory (yesterday) and green this afternoon. Yellow ends will be next…..

There are a few areas which need work, the usual little bit of overspray in the handrail channels.  The masking on the lower fairing beat me and that will need redoing to get a straight edge.  It’s been recommended to try thinner tape, so will see how I get on.

I have also sprayed up 3 more mk3s which completes my second GWT rake (and part of a third)

 

While I’ve been spraying I have repainted a vitrains class 47 from West Coast to Royal Train purple.  alas the paint took an age to dry, combined with a malting Labrador a bunch of dog hairs ended up on the paint while it dried.  A little work polishing with t cut removed them, so I will now varnish to get back to a consistent finish  

 

 

Finally an improved Bachmann class 37 with a 3d printed set of fuel tanks (with scale sizes cut outs and full end detail)

[The Fatadder]

I think the green headlight band looks too wide, there is some variation on the prototype (the more you look at photos of GWT Hst the more small variation you find)

 

I think there are two options to fix, mask, prime and respray the white reducing the line thickness.  Or, spray part of a sheet lf home made transfer film GWT white and cut to size.  Apply as a strip between the handrail channel and the headlights and obscure the green that way.  
 

option 2 sounds lower risk so I will give that a try once the yellow/ black on the ends are painted 

 

 

next time (as there will probably be more powercars to paint), I will spray the upper green first then the lower as a separate masking job, rather than cutting tape to width 

[Neal Ball]

Morning Rich,

 

Re: Merlin livery:

I wonder if the appearance would look different if the yellow was there and the light cluster added. At the moment, (maybe) our brains cant put it all together with how we expect it to be.

 

I've gone through my photos (35mm prints no less) and have these two of HST in the Merlin livery. At the moment, these are the only ones I have. 

 

 

 

I will keep going through my photos as I am pretty sure I took more (Merlin) images - so far I have found a few Barbie (wasn't that awful); Fag packet and quite a few of the First liveried Blue. The latter are a mix of 35mm and digital.

 

Plus of course I have a few BR Blue, all of which are on Slides.

 

Hope this helps, if I get more Merlin Power cars, I will let you know.

 

Regards, Neal.

[The Fatadder]

There is certainly a degree of variance in the stripe (and the yellow end for that matter).  You can tell that these locos were painted rather than applying vinyl  wraps like with most rolling stock these days.  The straightness / thickness of the green stripe extending from the headlights varies (although the bottom is usually straight), the thickness of the lines (green and white) between the cab window and the warning panel vary, while some have a white line between the yellow warning panel and the light clusters while others dont.

 

In the case of my painting, I think the issue is that the masking tape I used for the gap between the green bar and the main block of green around the windows was too narrow by about half a mm.  So while the window green finishes in the right place (as I used that as a datum) the green bar extends too high.  

 

I am planning to mask and spray the yellow ends at lunch today so will be interesting to see how it looks afterwards.  My plan is to get the yellow and black finished on the front, then mask and respray the green band on the bottom of the fairing to the correct height.  After which photos can be compared to see just how bad it looks.   I think the transfer approach is going to be my best bet, I had thought about masking again and using thinners to remove the paint from the area that I dont want it, but that feels a bit too risky...

 

Thanks for the photo of 43191, oddly enough that is actually one of the powercars I will be modelling.  43175 will remain as my improved Lima / Hornby hybrid, and I think the third powercar will end up as an un named example.  (Having just realised that my Fox order now amounts to over £75 without postage!)  Not helped by having to buy another tin of GWT Buff as I seem to have lost it!

[Neal Ball]

This one is from October 1996 and the green "wrap around" looks very similar to the photo above.

 

 

That weathering on the lower body would be difficult to replicate!

 

It looks as if I only have 2 Merlin liveries in all my photos and of course the one livery I missed off in my post above was the Inter City one and I have loads of photos of that!

 

Hope these photos are useful.

[The Fatadder]

At lunch today I sprayed the yellow, I had some issues with masking tape leaving a bit of a rough edge which will need repairs  

 

I would say that green band around the headlights does need to be narrower, will sort the fairing and black first though as previously mentioned (along with fixing the edge to the yellow)

While I had the paint out I added the yellow stripe to a mk3 first. I haven’t found the GWT buff paint yet, so finishing off will have to wait.  (Unless Vallejo make a close march…)

 

I have just placed an order with Fox for nameplates (43191, 43155 and 47798 along with transfers for the lining on the latter.  It should also have included plates for 47185 Great Western, but somehow I missed it off the list, and paints for the Hanson 59 (the order was a little too pricy already and I didnt want the extra postage charge).  I think Shawplan do the former so I will sort both out at Demu in July.

Edited May 9, 2022 by The Fatadder

[Neal Ball]

That front isn't far off where it needs to be Rich. 

 

See if you can photograph the model at the same angle as either my Paddington or Long Rock photo and its possibly as little as 1/2 mm from the top and bottom.

 

Good luck, it's almost there.

[The Fatadder]

6 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

That front isn't far off where it needs to be Rich. 

 

See if you can photograph the model at the same angle as either my Paddington or Long Rock photo and its possibly as little as 1/2 mm from the top and bottom.

 

Good luck, it's almost there.

I will give that a go tomorrow.  In the mean time the roof has been painted, so I just need to spray the black end / windscreen and touch up the lower fairing tomorrow and then I can make a final decision what to do about the central green band extending back from the lights. 

 

I have also resprayed the cab roof and nameplate area of a Lima powercar which will become Merchant Venturer on one side and an un names powercar on the other (as I only have one M V plate…)

 

 

Ideally eventually I want to find a damaged / non running pair of the Intercity swallow release of the Hornby powercars, from which I could do Pride of Laira and 43008 (the latter being the only powercar with guards window to get Merlin livery). But that’s for another day, once the pain of this respray has been forgotten.   I wish I had bought a second when they were still good prices!

[The Fatadder]

Progress before work / at lunch has got the black ends painted along with repairs to the green band on the lower fairing.  I also had a delivery from Fox with nameplates for 43191 (and for 43155 which is finally complete)

annoyingly the plates in my scrap box for Merchant Venturer is a pair of the earlier red cast version not the stainless ones I would need. So I think I will go with another un names powercar in its place.  So that will be two named and 3 without (for now) 

 

so the main job remaining is to spray the buff band (later in the week) along with minor touch ups to the cantrail grills where the green paint is  a bit thin in a few areas.

 

then of course there is the question of the green band extending backwards from the headlight…