ECC Wheal Imogen / Rosevean Station: the expansion

[dj_crisp]

Good luck Rich on whatever decision you go for!

 

Personally I'd keep the scenic side of things as is and attack the fiddle yard. Saying that I'm not looking forward to aligning my traverser! From watching lots of layouts parallel lines seem to work best with traversers. Is it possible to extend the entry to the traverser so all lines have a gentle curve entry to the actual traverser?

 

Good luck

Will

[The Fatadder]

8 hours ago, dj_crisp said:

Good luck Rich on whatever decision you go for!

 

Personally I'd keep the scenic side of things as is and attack the fiddle yard. Saying that I'm not looking forward to aligning my traverser! From watching lots of layouts parallel lines seem to work best with traversers. Is it possible to extend the entry to the traverser so all lines have a gentle curve entry to the actual traverser?

 

Good luck

Will

That was my first thought, but I don’t think it’s a viable option.  It would need a couple of feet adding to the layout to get the track curved to straight which is just too much.  6 inches of track under the bridge would also need relaying (which may / may not resolve the issues with the baseboard joint.)

 

I have enquired about a new baseboard (and last night redrew the track in OO on a slightly narrower baseboard), the latter is key as it will make it a lot easier to fit under Brent where it lives.  This would change the design somewhat, returning to lines which are parallel to the board for the yard and a transition S curve for the branch crossing the river (as a justification for the curves). 
 

The left hand two points have been removed, these were always a little

contrived as a way to be able to run the layout without its second fiddleyard.  Now I have the second fiddleyard I have adjusted it so the points for the runaround are off scene, with a single Y point.  This resolves the other issue infilling the track around the points.

[The Fatadder]

I have been working on the potential rebuild (in OO), and have come up with the below

Rendered in Fusion with rough approximations of the buildings.  I need to verify the dimensions of the slurry loader as I can’t find my original drawing.  In this drawing I think the slurry loader is too close to the river and track.

 

slight changes to the alignment of the lower track gets to this.   Once I have the board sorted I will play with both drawings and see how it looks in the flesh .  In both cases I have drawn up 

 

I picked up 3 yards of rail today, and have worked out pretty much everything else that needs ordering.   The plan was to source a new baseboard, but I have a feeling I have an 4ft by 2ft board in the garage roof that could be narrowed.  If all goes to plan I might be able to get cracking later in the week, followed by an intensive couple of 

days in early March. 

[The Fatadder]

Track, deep pour water and ballast all ordered today, with about two more weeks to wait on the baseboard (touch wood).  Work has also started on the preparation of the main fiddleyard in advance of getting the track.  
 

the next job on the plan is a full dummy run of the templot plan using a spare 4ft board (on which the plywood has badly failed). While it all looks right in CAD I want to check clearances if the slurry siding / loader in the flesh before ordering the final point (at the moment planed to be a British Finescale B7), but if this is too small an angle it will need switching to a Peco large bullhead (so close to a 1:6) given the British finescale range  doesn’t include an A/B6

 

looking forward to getting stuck into it…

[The Fatadder]

A little more progress, with the track plan printed out  for the first time I can finally see what the layout will look like in the flesh.  I wanted to achieve two main aims with this, the first being a check of the angle of the slurry siding and the second to check the plan of the river.   The idea is that the left hand part of the river will be in a channel with walls either side (like the section which follows the Newquay branch at one point), the other side of the bridge should be more of a traditional river bank given the extra space.

 

Of course it has highlighted a couple of issues, the first is the river and the laser cut baseboard.  As I have mentioned previously I am not the greatest when it comes to woodwork, hence ordering the lasercut baseboard.   However there wasn’t time to get something completely custom built so I will need to modify the Grange and Hodder board to add the river.  I am using Woodland Scenic’s Deep Pour water again for the river water so it doesn’t need to be too deep (I am hoping for 12mm or so depth from top of baseboard height).   This will mean cutting a 2 inch section out of the baseboard top along its entire length in an S shape, as well removing 12mm or so from the top of the two cross braces and the end of the baseboard.  I will use some spare 6mm ply to form a new base along with the edges of the channel.

 

The other more minor issue is with the fiddleyard, I had hoped to use te fittings designed into the baseboard to get everything bolted together.  There are a couple of issues with this, the first of which is that the fiddleyard board is 100mm narrower than the scenic board.  The other issue is the distance between the two exit tracks means they are at the extreme ends of the board.  This will mean fixing the base of the board recessed about 2 inchs from the front edge of the scenic board, meaning that the rear most track will be aligned when the traverser goes forward.  Of course this raises its own issue in that it would result in the treverser extending into the viewing area….   If anyone has a set of instructions for a Grange and Hodder traverser I would be interested in seeing a copy as I’d like to see what adjustment is possible.  Wondering if mounting the deck in a different place on the runners might give a slightly longer travel (about 2 inches would be all the difference).

 Alternativly I am debating a potential solution, in practice the layout is most likely opperated from one end only and the branch will be fairly quiet.  It would be possible to run a train from the St Blazey end (right hand fiddleyard) to the Newquay fiddlyeard then run it back again later on before running anything else on the branch.   In this situation the traverser could be locked in one position avoiding that need to extend forward into the public section (but could be reactivated at times when there are two opperators on the layout.)

[Calnefoxile]

 

6 weeks to go @The Fatadder 😜😜

 

Oh and shouldn't you change the title of the Thread as well??

 

Cheers

 

Neal.

[The Fatadder]

2 minutes ago, Calnefoxile said:

 

6 weeks to go @The Fatadder 😜😜

 

Oh and shouldn't you change the title of the Thread as well??

 

Cheers

 

Neal.

Not yet, it’s still P4 for another week or so until the baseboard arrives……

[The Fatadder]

Had a delivery from British Finescale yesterday with the B7 Finetrax kit.  At the Swindon show today I set to work building it (although made life a bit more difficult for myself by forgetting the drawing.)

 

for those that don’t know, the kit comprises pre machined parts for the vee and switch rails, rail, a nicely made tie bar and a plastic base into which you slide the rail.  You have to cut and form the wing rails and check rails, along with cutting the switch rails to length.    It just needs words adding and the tie bar soldering to the switch rails now I’ve got home and will be ready to install once the baseboard arrives.

 

since getting home from the show I’ve soldered the switch rails to the tiebar, added wires and a touch of superglue to one chair on each rail to ensure it’s all secure.  One slight difference to my normal construction is that the wing rails are in two parts rather than as one complete unit.  This means having two feeds for the isolated section rather than just one. 
 

 

 

[Ravenser]

On 03/03/2023 at 10:04, Calnefoxile said:

 

6 weeks to go @The Fatadder 😜😜

 

Oh and shouldn't you change the title of the Thread as well??

 

Cheers

 

Neal.

 

 

In view of the tightness of the deadline, I salute your courage in undertaking this. If it were Roger Ford writing in Modern Railways , I think the "h-word" would be used about this timetable.

 

If you pull it off, this one should go into the record books for the hobby

Edited March 4, 2023 by Ravenser

[The Fatadder]

I’ve been looking at the fiddleyard today, the full template has now been printed out confirming that the plan fits.    This also allowed me to check the dimensions fit (including checking the headshunt length with a Hattons 66.)

 

The question now is whether or not to glue the fiddle yard track down now or wait and do it in one go with the scenic baseboard once it arrives. 

[jonhall]

6 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

The question now is whether or not to glue the fiddle yard track down now or wait and do it in one go with the scenic baseboard once it arrives. 

 

 

[The Fatadder]

2 minutes ago, jonhall said:

 

Wish I’d used that on the last one, would make removing the p4 track a lot easier!

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, The Fatadder said:

I’ve been looking at the fiddleyard today, the full template has now been printed out confirming that the plan fits.    This also allowed me to check the dimensions fit (including checking the headshunt length with a Hattons 66.)

 

The question now is whether or not to glue the fiddle yard track down now or wait and do it in one go with the scenic baseboard once it arrives. 

Personally I'd wait, so that I could lay the track across the join before cutting it, which gives a better chance to maintain the alignment, but I know you're under time pressure, which might take precedence.

[The Fatadder]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Personally I'd wait, so that I could lay the track across the join before cutting it, which gives a better chance to maintain the alignment, but I know you're under time pressure, which might take precedence.

 

I have been looking again at my plan, I think you are right and the time saved doing track laying now is not worth the increased risk.  Its one of those things where I have no work that I can be getting on with, and sitting here staring at the left hand traverser is making me get tempted.

 

That said for reasons of cost saving I am using a mixture of different track products, with a combination of copperclad built bullhead for the inset track, a British Finescale bullhead point and Peco bullhead flex track on the scenic side, whilst using Peco code 75 in the fiddleyard.  This means of course there is not much of a chance to lay across the joints as the type of rail will be changing.   But, the point still stands as it certainly would make a lot more sense to get the Templot file glued down across the respective joints as one piece and then cut, so long as the track is accurately glued down to the template it should then align...

 

Fingers crossed it is just one more week to wait until I have the baseboard...

[The Fatadder]

I think I need to give some more thought to the river, the original plan had it running the full length of the layout.  However I think the width reduction from 600mm to 500mm has compressed the left hand side a little too much to fit it in.    
 

as I see it there are now two options, the first is to have the river on the right of the layout curving from the baseboard joint toward the viewer (sort of justifying the curve in the track).

the alternative is keeping the original path on the right hand side but instead of flowing under a bridge and continuing the other side of the track to the left hand baseboard joint, I would have a pipe running under the branch and the other side off the river assumed to be under ground with the clay works having expanded above it. 
 

 

will add some sketches later on, but here is the template with most buildings added on. Just the bridge is missing for the moment (as it’s a lot more destructive getting it off the old board).     The two buildings sit against the backscene, so I think there is an extra 50mm or so at the front  not shown on the template.    The baseboard cannot arrive soon enough…

[The Fatadder]

Option 1

 

Option 2

 

There is also a third option doing away with the river entirely and having a hill in the bottom right corner instead.  It would certainly make my life easier build wise, but I am keen to keep the water on the layout for visual interest (not just because I have already bought the deep pour water for it...)

[dj_crisp]

I'd go for option 1... mostly as one of my plans I doodled did the same. 

 

Option 2... would they build clays storage buildings over a river?

 

Cheers

Will

[The Fatadder]

39 minutes ago, dj_crisp said:

I'd go for option 1... mostly as one of my plans I doodled did the same. 

 

Option 2... would they build clays storage buildings over a river?

 

Cheers

Will

That is a fair point re option 2, I think the logic in my head was that it would just be the hard standing that would have been extended over the river, but I think in practice the slurry loader and the river transition would need to share pretty much the same space.   With that in mind I will probably go for option 1.

 

The whole thing is something of a compromise,  The ideal solution would have been having a straighter branch line with a bigger gap between it and the works.  However I want the capability to extend the layout in the future (even if it will probably never happen), and this means in the next 4 ft there must be a connection between branch and yard.   The S in the branch track is also a little contrived, arising from the need to get a wide spacing at the left hand side and narrow at the right whist also wanting track to be square on with the end of the boards.  

 

 

[The Fatadder]

I think I have solved the bridge issue, I was watching a video from 1991 of a drivers eye view of the Newquay branch. 
 

Part way along the branch you see this bridge, spanning both the branch and the river along side.  Pretty much exactly what I had in my head for the model.

 

The arch over the branch is pretty similar to what I’ve already built, as is the straight section afterward.  So it should just be a case of a few adjustments to lengths and adding the extra arch.

[The Fatadder]

Dismantling has commenced, (mostly so I can fit the layout in the car to transport it back one from the in-laws house easier).   
 

the bushes etc will stay in place until I’m ready to reuse it, as will point motors, but the bridge will hopefully now be removed.  At the moment it’s stuck pretty firmly, however my hope is the drive home will shake it loose…..

 

 

the backscene height is a key issue, length wise I can fit the large fiddleyard and scenic board into the i3 with the other fiddle yard on its side next to it.  The downside is that the current 500mm height backscene won’t fit, not a major issue when I was already planning to reduce the height to better allow operation from behind.

 

on the large fiddleyard the original version used two sheets of hardboard to raise the height to match the layout.  Annoyingly I glued this down rather than screwing it, net result removal has been a real pain in the backside. I’m thinking about unscrewing the board and flipping it over, though longer term I will replace this board with another Grange and Hodder or Tim Horn traverser.  My design has minimal bracing on the plywood deck so warping is a major concern.

 

It’s a bit depressing getting close to the destructive phase, but hopefully this time I can get to a point where it runs as well as it looks. 

[The Fatadder]

Some slightly more drastic work this evening , the bridge has now been chopped into 3 sections (one of which being scrap).   This compresses the gap between the two bridges.   The basic structure for the additional bridge over the river, this now needs gluing (hot glue gun) and cladding in SE fine cast random stone (I really hope I have some still….). The joints between the bridges will be hidden by the thicker pullers either side of the track.

 

I am a little concerned about the risk of working on this now, rather than waiting for the river to be in place.  Once clad in stone and painted this will be difficult to fix so I think I may be unable to progress from this point, still it’s good to see a little of how it will look. 

[The Fatadder]

A little fiddleyard progress, with Newquay end track starting to be laid.  
 

I will eventually add at least one more track

to the lower half of the yard.  However I am pretty sure I’ve under estimated the amount of track I needed (and potentially the amount of copper clad strip).  As such I am leaving off some track until I have laid both yards and built the inset track on the scenic board.  The latter may end up switched to use a couple of lengths of Peco code 75 if I can’t find enough copper clad strip to build the track by hand.

 

a length of softwood will be screwed across the right hand end as barrier to stop runaways.

Edited March 12, 2023 by The Fatadder

[The Fatadder]

Looks like the baseboard is going to take longer to arrive than I had previously hoped using up a week of contingency, there is a good reason I have treated the plan as I would work...

 

That said I am still a little more concerned than I would like to be, so I have been reviewing the task list to identify any additional tasks that do not require the baseboard and can be bought forward. 

 

The key items being:

• Soldering track feeds, it will mean a little estimation as to where track lengths will be cut 
• Clad the road bridge in plasticard and paint, again I had planned on doing this after cutting the river so that should the river not get cut exactly to plan I could easily adjust the bridge.  However there is a good evenings work that can be save doing the bridge now.
• Cutting down the length of the legs
• Solder up new locking bars for the fiddleyard
• Install as much fiddleyard track as possible
• Get the Cavelex CDA rake ready 

In addition to the already planned work on the fiddleyard, I think the short 3 inch lengths of track on the 'bridge' section between the traverser and the scenic board will need to wait until I have the scenic board.  the short fiddleyard on which I have already been laying track is not mounted square with the front of the scenic board (and so can be adjusted).  The large fiddleyard is mounted square with the board, so the track exiting needs to match exactly (whereas thanks to the parallel track exits the track on the traverser section can be fitted now).   

Actually fitting the track will be Thursday / Fridays job (as Ive ran out of paint halfway through painting the board.)  I want to be able to lift the track eventually (as I still plan to replace my home made traverser with a better plywood version at some point).  My thinking is having copper clad sleepers soldered to the end of the track, then glue down every 10th sleeper to hold the track in place. 

 

 

[The Fatadder]

Two more jobs off the list, 

the fixed ‘bridge’ section between the traverser and scenic baseboard is now in place. It just requires painting (tomorrow once the paint turns up) and an infill either side. 
 

I have also almost  finished the upgrade work on the slurry loader.  For some reason (possibly it being attached to the layout) I didn’t upgrade this building with down pipes etc when working on the layout before Lydd Rail a couple of years back.  So this has now been rectified, I have also added the missing safety cage on the ladder, a handrail on one side of the slurry loading platform and a few other minor tweaks. 
I am still trying to work out if I should add a handrail to the other side of the loading platform. It didn’t look right when I tested it, but it’s more a case of what would 1990s H&S say I guess.

[The Fatadder]

A little more work from yesterday evening (and todays lunch brake),

 

First up more progress on the fiddleyard, which has now been painted black and fitted with the first lengths of track.  I have slightly under ordered fiddleyard track (I think I need two more yards), but I have enough to at least have an operational fiddleyard at each end.  If I manage to get some more track before the show I will add the missing extra sidings, else I will source them at Calne and add before Showcase.

 

I have also started work on my Cavelex CDA, while these are slightly more expensive than the Accurascale model, they carry a significant edge in the design of the hoods.  Of course Cavelex (nor Accurascale for that matter) dont make the livery I need of ECC blue but without the ECC logos.  These logos didnt last very long leaving a rectangle which I think was painted grey (it looks a contrast to the body colour) with an ECC blue border.  It should be present on any EWS livery wagons (Accurascale's dont include it), while seems to either have been removed (or completely obscured by clay) by DB days.  I masked the edge of the printed blue box on the wagon side and then carefully painted with a light grey.  It will eventually all be covered with a liberal coat of china clay coloured weathering to blend it in).    

In my period the wagons also had a St Blazey lizard sticker between the CDA branding and the grey rectangle which has been added with a Railtec transfer.

I now have the other side (plus 5 more wagons) to repeat this process on before I can start weathering, some wagons also have a yellow or red rectangle on the framing and yellow handbrake leavers, two details which will need adding again before weathering.  They will also need Dinghams adding to finish the job off.

 

 

In 1999 EWS commenced the process of repainting the CDA fleet, taking small numbers of wagons down to the old Ponts Mill work where the chassis was cleaned and refurbished and the framing painted in EWS red (with no EWS logos).  To this end a single DB liveried example was sourced, the DB branding and red backed number panel removed and the roof painted ECC blue (having confirmed the EWS red roofs did not appear until the 2000s).  The grey rectangle has been painted on the sides, which will be followed by adding the blue band around the edge once dry.  The weathering will be tricky as the chassis and frame need to be clean while the roof / hopper were left untouched straight from service...

after the first coat of blue / remove of logos

 

Finally thanks to Will for sorting me out with a swap for some OO wheels for the Bachmann 150, so my 150 is now back to OO gauge.  It can now get a decoder (and soon a set of Wales and West transfers) and will be ready for Calne...

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by The Fatadder