S7 scratch building

[icw]

Alan Austin (Ambis) is very friendly and helpful: just give him a ring and I'm sure he'll be more than willing to explain.

[Adam]

Graham - what retains the wheel set in this case is the wire spring - it’s attached by friction to the carrier and is held by the holes in - this particular instance - one of the hopper support ribs and another that’s folded out from the back of the solebar. The bridle has - or should have - no particular part to play, much like the real thing.

 

I can’t say how well that works in 7mm but it seems to work fine in 4mm where the basic concept is more or less standard for wagon springing.

 

Adam

[Western Star]

4 hours ago, Adam said:

Graham - what retains the wheel set in this case is the wire spring - it’s attached by friction to the carrier and is held by the holes in - this particular instance - one of the hopper support ribs and another that’s folded out from the back of the solebar. The bridle has - or should have - no particular part to play, much like the real thing.

 

I can’t say how well that works in 7mm but it seems to work fine in 4mm where the basic concept is more or less standard for wagon springing.

 

Adam

Adam @Adam,

 

I recognise what you are saying, just not in this context - ought your post to have been in another topic (P7 given your mention of a hopper)?

[airnimal]

I am not sure how I am going to proceed with the Ambis W-irons. I am sure in the hands of most people they work perfectly well but I don't think I fall into that category. 

So I will crack on with the body work and here again I fall short when building kits and using ready made parts. I have plenty of history making a pile of scrap out of perfectly good kits and bits that others can make it very good models.

I have found the article by Barry Norman on detailing these 3 plank opens in MRJ No 206. 

Barry changes the buffers on one of the wagons by removing the base plates and replacing with with PECO turned bodies and new bases.

I turned up 4 round bases from hard clear Perspex and dipped the bodies in Birchwood Casey metal black. The plank lines have been cut in with an Olfa cutter as I would when scratch building.

 

I find building kits or modifying ready made parts takes twice as long as starting from scratch. This is obviously a mental thing so I don't know why I still persevere with it and end up being frustrated.

[airnimal]

As predicted by myself this wagon isn't going anywhere. I made a floor and put one side and end on and left to dry before doing the other side. The fittings on these wagon kits is always a weak point in trying to get a smooth finish where they join one another. I failed miserably and managed to loose a couple of bolts on one corner without making a very good smooth join. Other people make perfectly good wagons from kits it's just me that can't get an acceptable model this way. I can't do lots of things in life like running a 4 minute mile so I will add kit building to the long list of other things beyond my capabilities. As I get older this list gets longer everyday.

 

I had a phone call this morning from the Hospital regarding my blood test results from November. They couldn't find the results which is not unexpected because they forgot to make me an appointment. They did send me a letter cancelling my appointment for this morning but in the same letter making me another appointment at exactly the same time and on the same day. I now know why old men get grumpy.

[Poggy1165]

The corners of plastic wagon kits are a problem. They almost invariably need fettling to look right and it's very easy not to get it 100% right.

 

For opens, it would be a big improvement if the kit makers would make the corners plain and provide an etched corner plate that could be folded. This would cover many sins. Although it would not resolve the end door end, obviously. These can be just as awkward as the others.

[MarcD]

We have started to produce ours as a completed body with separate strapping if there is a variation. The latest one coming into production is a dead buffered LBSCR coal wagon with sprung axle gaurds. 

Marc

[airnimal]

I have put away the kit of parts of the Cooper Craft GWR wagon and get back to something more familiar. I am scratch building another LNWR cattle wagon, this time it will hopefully be a small one with a roof. There only one photograph as far as I know but there are a couple of small drawings in LNWR wagons Vol 1. I still have one set of grill bars for the bottom the sides given to me many years ago by the late Peter Korrison. 

I should really finish all the half complete builds I have got hanging around but where is the fun in that. 

I am still waiting for the wagon wheels ordered from Alan Gibson to finish the furniture wagon. I don't suppose the order of 3 sets of S7 wagon wheels is going to be a big priority for a one man band who is very busy.

I apologize for the poor photographs but the camera on this Amazon device is not of the best quality.

[kitpw]

I have the same problem with kit building that you set out above and quite often end up scratch building with a few bought in parts to try and speed up my tortoise pace of work.  Still, there's greater satisfaction with the end result, which, in your case is superb and in my case, maybe just about ok. 

 

Any progress on your layout ideas? 

 

Kit PW

[Dave Hunt]

Every time I build from a kit (which is actually quite a rare event) it reminds me why I don't often build from kits! They never seem to go together properly, never quite match up to prototype fidelity and aren't constructed as I would do it. Hence half gets scratch built anyway so I'm not sure why I bother.

 

And this is from someone who used to produce kits (Pilgrim Models if anyone remembers them) so is it poacher and gamekeeper talk in reverse?

 

Dave

[wagonman]

On 01/12/2020 at 11:56, airnimal said:

As predicted by myself this wagon isn't going anywhere. I made a floor and put one side and end on and left to dry before doing the other side. The fittings on these wagon kits is always a weak point in trying to get a smooth finish where they join one another. I failed miserably and managed to loose a couple of bolts on one corner without making a very good smooth join. Other people make perfectly good wagons from kits it's just me that can't get an acceptable model this way. I can't do lots of things in life like running a 4 minute mile so I will add kit building to the long list of other things beyond my capabilities. As I get older this list gets longer everyday.

 

I had a phone call this morning from the Hospital regarding my blood test results from November. They couldn't find the results which is not unexpected because they forgot to make me an appointment. They did send me a letter cancelling my appointment for this morning but in the same letter making me another appointment at exactly the same time and on the same day. I now know why old men get grumpy.

 

Don't lose any sleep over the Coopercraft kit, Mike, as it is inaccurate: it depicts a wagon 16' OH (to match their 4 plank wagon) but the 3 plankers were only 15' 6" OH. I suppose you could salvage the solebars if you chop a bit off the ends...

 

 

[airnimal]

'I don't appear to be making very much progress with this cattle wagon. Even though I have made two similar ones before I forgot the way I constructed the framework and what sizes I used. After many false starts I now the basic idea again.

 

Another problem I have had of late was models taking far longer to get square and true. 

I traced the problem to my long and trusted Moore and Wright square that I bought when I was a mere slip of a lad. I placed a steel rule down the back edge and held it up to the light and was shocked to discover it was like a banana. Fifty years of running knives and scalpel blades down the back edge many thousands of times has worn it away. Still fifty years of service has more than paid for its self. 

I bought a replacement from Squire's which came by return of post. I don't know if the quality will be the same but I don't think I will be around in fifty years to find out.

 

There will not be any progress on any layout until after we move house which may get a little easier now my better half has decided to retire. So after Christmas we will start to look at what is on the market in the area we want. My suggestion for a three bedroom workshop didn't go down well.

[airnimal]

Although there doesn't look like much progress it has taken the best part of today to do one side and that even isn't finished. There are the doors to complete before I chamfer the edge of the timbers and add all the details.  

[airnimal]

It's looking a bit more like a cattle wagon on one side at least. I have done the floor inside to please the wagonman. I am surprised how long its taken me to get my eye in on this one but it appears to being going well. 

 

I have another appointment at the Hospital on Tuesday and this time they told me by text, letter and phone call. Either don't tell me or tell me multiple times. 

[wagonman]

On 07/12/2020 at 11:51, airnimal said:

It's looking a bit more like a cattle wagon on one side at least. I have done the floor inside to please the wagonman. I am surprised how long its taken me to get my eye in on this one but it appears to being going well. 

 

I have another appointment at the Hospital on Tuesday and this time they told me by text, letter and phone call. Either don't tell me or tell me multiple times. 

 

You know the way to a wagonman's heart!

 

 

[airnimal]

A small amount of work has been done with the end timbers and buffers in place. I have run out of metal coupling hooks so I have had to use PECO plastic ones. I am sure they will be alright but I haven't much experience of running long racks of wagons. And the fact I might never have the space to run them coupled with my age and lack of railway to run them on it means they may never be tested.

[airnimal]

I have got the wheels on which helps the motivation when the weather outside is grey and raining. 

There are still many hours to go and this one will have more lime wash than the others. I will use the photo in Vol 1 as a guide.

Edited December 15, 2020 by airnimal

[MarcD]

I have to say I do like the open cattle vans. Where did you get the drawings from? They don't appear in any of the LNWR wagon books.

 

Marc 

[airnimal]

Marc, the drawing was published in a LNWR society journal. I could sent you a copy but I don't have a printer of scanner. I could ask my wife to do one at work but it will be next week.

[MarcD]

That brilliant. No rush I'm working on two Andrew Barclay tanks at the moment which will keep me off the streets until after Christmas. 

As I  was drawing the etch of the panio tank out I found a problem with the firebox then I found a picture of the box tank version and found that the firebox was very wrong.

Marc

[MarcD]

Its not true scratch building but these are the fittings for the Barclay tank. 

 

Marc

[airnimal]

I have spent a fair amount of time trying to get a good join where the roof meets the body. I have made the roof a tiny bit longer than it should be but in my defence, photo's of the original are limited to one.

The roof is vacuum formed for a GWR coach kit and cut up to provide several van roofs.

I have put thin strips of Evergreen plastic on the inside so the roof will just clips in. 

 

My better half will retire today after 24 years service. What impact this will have on workshop time I'm not sure. We will be able to go and look at houses with a view to moving and hopefully find a bigger workshop but that's not my wife's priority. 

 

There has been a few wagons on  e bay recently from the estate of Adrian Swain. 

The seller claims that Adrian made them but I will have beg to differ on some of them at least. 

This is not any slight on Adrian's good name because Adrian was a craftsman who's talent has helped us all. 

There is a LNWR wagon on there at the moment which claims it to be a plastic kit. It is fact a resin kit built by me from one of Adrian's kits that he bought from Meteor Models. 

I made the master and built and painted it for Adrian to put on his show stand. 

It seems sad to see Adrian's models end up on e bay along with his unmade kits at vastly inflated prices. 

[MarcD]

Hi Mike,

Many thanks, the drawing arrived at lunch time. That's my lockdown 3 project sorted. once I have finished the AB tanks.

 

Marc

[Crewe North]

On 18/12/2020 at 12:59, airnimal said:

The seller claims that Adrian made them but I will have beg to differ on some of them at least. 

Not restricted to wagons.....there was an LNW 0-4-0 saddletank on there claiming to be 'built by Adrian'.....it was not as it was built by me for my 'Alexandra Yard' 7mm layout, Adrian bought it later. It went for a premium , for a 0-4-0 tank, I only hope that the buyer doesn't think he's got an Adrian Swain original.

 

John

[airnimal]

John, I wonder if a lot of Adrian's stuff that is appearing on e-bay claiming to be built by him was made by him.

I can't go any further with the cattle wagon because I have run out of castings for the brake shoes so I have started another NSR bolster wagon to go with one I made last year. But this one has self contained sprung buffers in place of the dumb buffer on the early one.