S7 scratch building

[railtec-models]

9 minutes ago, airnimal said:

Nick / railtec,  many thanks for your suggestions.  I have to admit that I didn't have any knowledge of these but looking at the list it may be a solution to my dilemma.  

Being a dinosaur I do not keep to to date with modern technology.  I think I could do with seeing someone at a exhibition demonstrating how to apply them to a model.

 

They're applied in exactly the same way as waterslide transfers, and the concept there hasn't changed much in decades. Cut out the desired length, soak in tap water for not very long and slide onto the model. Because they're waterslide, you get ample wiggle room to manoeuvre them how you need on the model before they dry and set.

 

[magmouse]

8 minutes ago, railtec-models said:

They're applied in exactly the same way as waterslide transfers, and the concept there hasn't changed much in decades. Cut out the desired length, soak in tap water for not very long and slide onto the model. Because they're waterslide, you get ample wiggle room to manoeuvre them how you need on the model before they dry and set.

 

And of course, the spacing is predetermined, so as long as the manufacturer has done their job correctly (and I am sure Steve will have!) you get nice, evenly spaced rivets in a straight line. I haven't yet tried the Rail-Tec ones, as I still have a stock of Archers, but when I used the Archers ones on my GWR loco coal wagon build, the only problem I found was they seemed too small, almost invisible, even though I had selected what I thought were accurate-to-scale rivets. I suspect this just means we have become used to over-scale representations on models, even on kits where we admire the delicate and crisp mouldings!

 

Archers recommended applying the transfers to a painted surface, not direct to metal or plastic. I'm not sure about Rail-Tec, but Steve will perhaps advise on that.

 

Nick.

[railtec-models]

3 minutes ago, magmouse said:

Archers recommended applying the transfers to a painted surface, not direct to metal or plastic. I'm not sure about Rail-Tec, but Steve will perhaps advise on that.

 

Nick.

 

I've applied them to both painted and unpainted on multiple substrates (although I didn't bother with wood) without issue. Obviously though the smoother the surface the better the adhesion. I've sold quite a number of these now and haven't had anything but great feedback. And it certainly saves people the mind boggling hassle of trying to apply individual rivets!

 

[airnimal]

Nick /  railtec, it does sound like the answer and may save me from losing the plot.  It could also benefit my models where I haven't quite got the rivets in line like the bottom of this bunker which I have just replaced the .6mm rivets for .5mm ones. The next issue is the size and spacing requirements. The rivets on the back of the bunker has a double line up the middle which I see from the web page are available. 

I will need to do more research to determine what I need before committing some modelling tokens. 

[WFPettigrew]

30 minutes ago, railtec-models said:

I've applied them to both painted and unpainted on multiple substrates

 

To add a second voice to this, I fairly recently bought some from Steve (usual no connection, blah, etc), and put them straight onto nickel silver (unpainted), without any issues. 

 

All the best

 

Neil 

[ICH]

1 hour ago, railtec-models said:

 

I've applied them to both painted and unpainted on multiple substrates (although I didn't bother with wood) without issue. Obviously though the smoother the surface the better the adhesion. I've sold quite a number of these now and haven't had anything but great feedback. And it certainly saves people the mind boggling hassle of trying to apply individual rivets!

 

Hi

Thinking of wagons, Can you print bolt heads and or nuts with a bolt sticking slightly out say spaced out on a corner plate of a wagon?

 

 

[railtec-models]

4 minutes ago, ICH said:

Hi

Thinking of wagons, Can you print bolt heads and or nuts with a bolt sticking slightly out say spaced out on a corner plate of a wagon?

 

 

 

If I've understood correctly and assuming that this would be a bespoke design to suit a very specific vehicle type and size, as opposed to a pattern that was common (and that many people would want), then whlist technically do-able, I'm not sure that it would be viable. BUT, if you just needed 1 rivet that was out of alignment in each corner of the wagon, then personally I would just cut off one rivet from the sheet and plonk it where it needed to be. The sheets give you that versatility: rows and rows of perfectly sized and spaced rivets, or the option to chop odd ones off and put them where you need to.

 

[airnimal]

Trying to restore my mojo by building a couple of Cambrian wagons.  I have built quite a few in the past when I was going to model the Cambrian. These will a drop sided 2 plank and an early 2 plank fixed sided one with early brake gear and funny V hangers. I still had a few bits from many years ago hanging around doing nothing. Both are being modelled with fixed slate loads so I am not going to put any interior detail in. I will need to buy some parallel buffers for the fixed sided one because I have run out of them, so they are on my shopping list for the GOG meeting in Barnsley in June. I am sorry for the poor quality of the photograph. I need to sort out I-pad and delete all the rubbish on it to free up some space because when I use the camera it won't let me soom it or change the settings. 

[Compound2632]

On 25/04/2023 at 13:58, railtec-models said:

If I've understood correctly 

 

I think he means, rather than a plain round blob representing a rivet head, would it be practical to print a representation of a nut on the end of a bolt, as found in multitudes on wooden wagons?

 

 

[railtec-models]

22 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I think he means, rather than a plain round blob representing a rivet head, would it be practical to print a representation of a nut on the end of a bolt, as found in multitudes on wooden wagons?

 

 

 

Maybe I misunderstood. If you mean hexagonal shapes, then yes. I've recently successfully tested hexagonal examples although I haven't yet had the time to market them. There's no reason why I can't/won't duplicate the entire rivet catalog for hexagonal nuts, although you really would have to reach for the magnifying glass to see the difference when it comes to some of the very small head diameters.

 

The bit I wasn't clear on in ICH's post was whether the request was for a rivet or nut arrangement such as:

 

                     o

o o o o o o

 

(hopefully the formatting of the above has remained though to be fair the WYSIWYG editor seems to behave very well)

 

i.e. with a single one out of alignment to the remainder, in which case see above.

[Compound2632]

5 minutes ago, railtec-models said:

Maybe I misunderstood. If you mean hexagonal shapes, then yes. I've recently successfully tested hexagonal examples although I haven't yet had the time to market them.

 

Hexagonal shapes, with a knob sticking up out of the middle representing the end of the bolt onto which the nut is screwed.

[railtec-models]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Hexagonal shapes, with a knob sticking up out of the middle representing the end of the bolt onto which the nut is screwed.

 

Ah! Hm, honestly, even for some of the larger head diams in 4mm, whilst they would technically be there, I'm not sure they'd even be visible to the naked eye. Ditto some of the smaller head diams in 7mm, and without testing it's an unknown whether they'd even be noticeable in some of the larger head diams in 7mm. If you have an image which shows a good close-up of specifically what you have in mind then feel free to share.

[ian@stenochs]

 

Here is an example, big nuts and bolts on the smokebox saddle and frames and smaller ones on the cylinder head and buffer body.  All look different to the rivets on the buffer plank.

[Compound2632]

In the wagon context:

 

 

[Embedded link to Lightmoor Press website.]

 

But as you say, in the smaller scales virtually indistinguishable - though I think the overall effect is more domed than a rivet head.

[Schooner]

4 hours ago, railtec-models said:

I'm not sure they'd even be visible to the naked eye.

I'm sure you're quite right, but for better or worse that's no longer the metric now we all carry incredible close-up cameras in our pockets.

 

It is becoming a bit of a choice: does one model to convince the viewer of the layout, or the viewer of photographs of the layout?*

 

*It cannot simply be for the modeller's own enjoyment, obviously!

[railtec-models]

26 minutes ago, Schooner said:

I'm sure you're quite right, but for better or worse that's no longer the metric now we all carry incredible close-up cameras in our pockets.

 

I don't disagree, but we also have to be realistic: there are only a handful of people mad enough to do what I do, the technology capable of achieving such finely intricate results and the "enthusiasm" to want to keep pushing boundaries (have we had a choice of 120+ homegrown packs of rivets readily available prior to a few weeks ago or even hexagonal bolts? Maybe the latter, I don't know). Would modellers rather have what could potentially be hours of resource taken up in perfecting something that isn't even visible to the naked eye, or that finite specialist resource spent on R&Ding topics where there are large gaps? Fruit Ds, complete loco packs for GWR, LMS & LNER steam locos, new packs for rafts of engeering wagons with realistic looking data panels and maintenance charts are just 3 very long outstanding topics off the top of me barnet. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy a challenge and I'm curious to give the above a test and I will, and who knows, it could turn out to be a quick win, but taking a broader view if the wider community were to decide how I spend half a day, I suspect I know what the answer would be.

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, railtec-models said:

I don't disagree, but we also have to be realistic: 

 

If it's any consolation I've just ordered a couple more packs of the rivets, for use as wagon nuts, being myself a wagon nut.

[airnimal]

Today was all about brownie points because I took my better half to Cheshire Oaks retail park. She has being going on for ages about would I like to go shopping !  Anyway I dropped her at the carpark and went to Holywell town to look at the remains of the small branch line terminus which I have thought about modelling. This is probably about the only small station I can get into my workshop in S7. I have the loco and coaches with more than enough wagons to run a full service which is unusual because everything is pushed uphill to the station. It is such a compact situation set in a small cutting on the edge of the village. 

The photographs show where the lines climb the bank into the station under the bridge with the goods yard off to the side. 

 

Anyway I got back to Cheshire Oaks fearing the worst for my wallet and was pleasantly surprised that it only cost me one coat and one dressing gown and dinner. Result.  

[MarcD]

Interesting prototype as goods trains were pushed up the hill rather than pulled. There are some photos on the disused railway station website. There was also an em model made a few years back.

Marc

[ICH]

5 hours ago, railtec-models said:

 

I don't disagree, but we also have to be realistic: there are only a handful of people mad enough to do what I do, the technology capable of achieving such finely intricate results and the "enthusiasm" to want to keep pushing boundaries (have we had a choice of 120+ homegrown packs of rivets readily available prior to a few weeks ago or even hexagonal bolts? Maybe the latter, I don't know). Would modellers rather have what could potentially be hours of resource taken up in perfecting something that isn't even visible to the naked eye, or that finite specialist resource spent on R&Ding topics where there are large gaps? Fruit Ds, complete loco packs for GWR, LMS & LNER steam locos, new packs for rafts of engeering wagons with realistic looking data panels and maintenance charts are just 3 very long outstanding topics off the top of me barnet. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy a challenge and I'm curious to give the above a test and I will, and who knows, it could turn out to be a quick win, but taking a broader view if the wider community were to decide how I spend half a day, I suspect I know what the answer would be.

Hi Sorry I didn't explain myself on my last post. Yes I was looking for two things actually 1: Hex bolts and 2: can they be positioned in a order as a corner plate of a wagon.

I can see that item 2 may be not worth the cost so I can understand that.

I work in 7mm and you can see the difference between bolts and rivets. When you are close to your model and as you say they mayn't be so obvious when on your layout a couple of feet away. But the interesting thing is when its 1: weathered the detail has a effect of standing out and the way the light hits the bolt or rivet helps with the illusion of the original. If you look at say the Websters 4 plank GWR wagon kit now marketed by Peco the rivet and bolt detail is to scale and you can see the detail. If you think about it, model railways is all about the illusion. And like in every avenue of this hobby if you are happy with the model that is all that counts.

I have draw a 3D wagon and the bolts were to scale some Hex and some Square heads. When printed they are noticeable in their shape by the the way they light catches them. 

I saw your transfers for the first time at the weekend, early GWR wagons that had been commissioned. I have to say I am very impressed. 

[Dave John]

I started using the Masterclub rivets and boltheads on my 1/50 th project as a result of seeing how well Airnimal used them on this thread. However I observe that historex are now showing a much reduced range, they are made in russia and I suspect unfortunate events will affect the supply. 

 

In 4mm I have used Archers for years, I am now  on my last sheet. I shall try the railtec ones and see how well I get on with them. I enjoy making wagons with a lot of rivets, as the range expands I'm sure I will learn how to use them. 

 

 

 

 

[airnimal]

I am not enjoying my modelling at all at present which is not very good because it usually leads to making loads of scrap. I thought that building a couple of Cambrian wagons would work wonders for my mojo but even this isn't working. I made a fundamental mistake right at the beginning by putting the floor between the solebar's instead of on top which I hadn't noticed.  When I think I have scratchbuilt such a vast amount of wagons for so long it beggars belief I can make such  stupid error. Because I am not putting any interior in both these wagons I will be able to cut a hole in the floor which I have done on the first one and mount the wheels at the correct ride height.   

[Schooner]

Neither stupid nor erroneous enough to even make the shortlist of the latest Top 1 Million Stupid Errors People Make All The Time. I wonder if relying on results for mojo is the right way to go...? Perhaps switching it up and having another think about a photoplank would enable you to focus on the process a bit more, which in turn might help spark the desire to do the next thing.

 

[airnimal]

While my better half was watching the goings on yesterday I did a little more on this Cambrian wagon. 

I am using my own W-irons that I use for LNWR wagons as they are virtually the same when compared to the drawings I am using.  The V irons are from a small etch produced over 30 years ago which had 3 different types on it and i will be using the curved funny one on the other Cambrian wagon I am building.

[airnimal]

The V irons have rather large holes in them and I wanted to solder the fixing bolts in them without getting to much solder on the faces. The bolts were filed square from some brass pins but not very well if you look at the bottom right one, which will be replaced.  I cleaned the W-iron both front and back before I coated the front with graphite from a HB pencil. I then fluxed the back and soldered them without getting hardly any excess solder coming through onto the face. I don't know why this old dodge isn't used more as it saves a lot of cleaning up