Sittingbourne & Kemsley

[Jack]

I couldn't find an update thread on this version so thought i'd start another one.

 

An update of their progress can be found here.

 

I guess no news is good news ... still no timetable and by the sounds of things the area is changing beyond all recognition. Even if the line does survive I suspect it will lose its industrial and marsh wasteland atmosphere (part of the appeal for myself). This is a shame and definitly not a reflection of the hard work put in by the volunteers, just a sad sign of the changing face of north Kent.

 

Hopefully it won't be long before the SKLR is back though.

[smudgeloco]

Thanks for that update Jack. That was an enjoyable read, and a pleasing one. At least they are carrying on in a positive manner. I wish them well.

[Oldddudders]

Thanks for that update Jack. That was an enjoyable read, and a pleasing one. At least they are carrying on in a positive manner. I wish them well.

Exactly. The linked page was newsy, but full of facts and well-written. If railways at the margin like SKLR are to survive crises like this, then professionalism is essential. They need to impress hard-nosed developers and others in the "real world" that they too are capable and sincere in their objectives. A page like this is a darn good public face, and strikes the right note. Of course I wish them well too!

[Jack]

It would appear M-Real have sold off the Sittingbourne mill site and railway land to a developer ... sounds positive though ... the official details from the railway are here and the developers site here. No mention of the railway on the latter. I'm guessing the big green standard gauge shed, a familiar sight to rail travellers heading to london, will soon be no more.

 

Last time I was down I did a recce of the wharf site and there are still traces of the old narrow gauge lines running through the quayside.

[jonhall]

It would appear M-Real have sold off the Sittingbourne mill site and railway land to a developer ... sounds positive though ... the official details from the railway are here and the developers site here. No mention of the railway on the latter. I'm guessing the big green standard gauge shed, a familiar sight to rail travellers heading to london, will soon be no more.

 

Last time I was down I did a recce of the wharf site and there are still traces of the old narrow gauge lines running through the quayside.

 

Whilst browsiong the mags in Smiths I noticed that one of them (steam railway? ) was having a volunteer day at the SKLR - does anyone have details?

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

[jonhall]

Whilst browsiong the mags in Smiths I noticed that one of them (steam railway? ) was having a volunteer day at the SKLR - does anyone have details?

 

Thanks,

 

Jon

 

Despite the SKLR's best efforts to disappear off the face of the planet, I did manage to find details of their open day today, and depspite their attempts to hide, I actually found them when I pitched up in Sittingbourne. I really do despair of this lot!

 

Mellior was hauling the train in one direction and a Diesel dragged it back.

 

 

 

 

Triumph and a Diesel on shed at Kemsley.

 

It wasn't much of an operation, but I'm quite glad I went. For those interested in such things they will be running trains on Wednesday, and then Saturday and Sunday next weekend, and then thats your lot for the rest of the year. If their flair for self publicity is refective of the rest of their operation then I would catch them whilst you can, this line could flourish if anyone actually knew it existed, but I suspect that 95% of those who visited the ASDA supermarket where their trains ran from would have been unaware if its existance, let alone anyone else...

 

Jon

[Kenton]

That is a pity. Been to Sittingbourne several times (possibly even ASDA) but didn't know they existed.

I guess they don't want all those railway anoraks trampling over their tracks.

[cornelius]

If their flair for self publicity is refective of the rest of their operation then I would catch them whilst you can, this line could flourish if anyone actually knew it existed, but I suspect that 95% of those who visited the ASDA supermarket where their trains ran from would have been unaware if its existance, let alone anyone else...

 

 

I think the SKLR deserves a bit of leeway considering they've spent the best part of the last two years dealing with very complex land ownership issues and are struggling to get back on their feet. The halt beside Asda is really a temporary arrangement pending a hopeful return to the full length of the line next year. It wasn't normally used for passenger services when the line was previously open so it's not really surprising that it's hard to find.

 

Publicity arrangements are one thing, but considering they are running trains at all on the maximum extent of the line they are able to the effort should be applauded.

 

 

[invercloy]

Publicity arrangements are one thing, but considering they are running trains at all on the maximum extent of the line they are able to the effort should be applauded.

 

 

QUITE! Give them a break, times have been really hard on them.

 

 

[S.A.C Martin]

That is a pity. Been to Sittingbourne several times (possibly even ASDA) but didn't know they existed.

I guess they don't want all those railway anoraks trampling over their tracks.

 

Far from it - they're lovely people who work very hard in their little corner of England.

 

I'm stunned you've not heard about them, given their plight has been top of the railway press over three major magazines (Steam Railway, Heritage Railway & The Railway Magazine) for the last two years.

 

The Mill and its owning body looked to throw them off, and they've been unable to run trains until the two parties could come to some sort of arrangement. That meant, for the most part, that most of the line, if not all of it, was off limits to the public and volunteers since 2008.

 

That they've survived - and I sent a few donations their way last year when the worst was feared - is nothing short of a miracle, but they've worked hard for it.

 

They are really, really great people - my dad took me down there for my 16th Birthday for a driver's day course, and they were amazing people, really lovely. Will never forget my day driving Triumph along that line.

 

 

Thanks for reminding me Jack - donation to the line will be on its way shortly.

[Jack]

Another piece of fine journalism can be found here ...

 

Jon, have they started work on the Northern Bypass yet? If so, is it likely to impact the area where the railway is?

 

Thanks for the pics guys ...

[rockershovel]

I don't know the S&KLR but I do know that corner of Kent, through an involvement with the adjacent Iwade speedway track whose problems are similar in many ways. I'd agree that the generally grim and neglected aspect of that whole area is changing, although many would say for the better.

 

It's interesting to see the respective natures of the various gauges; the surprisingly heavy tonnages and intensive traffic potential of the 2ft gauge as seen at Portmadoc, versus the effectively lightweight, minimum gauge operation ( because pace the 15" gauge enthusiasts, 2ft is effectively the smallest useful gauge for any sort of distance, with 18" gauge and 15" gauge only being used either in very enclosed spaces or by people trying to prove a point ). The 2ft 3" gauge as seen at Corris and TR, being neither really one thing not t'other and being chosen at a time when the technology and economics were much less developed and understood; and the much larger size of the 2ft 6", being in many ways more akin to 3ft than 2ft operations and hence a better bet for 'common carrier' operations in the easier English terrain - presumably this is why although 2ft 6" was well known in India, the D&HR was built to 2ft gauge.

[jonhall]

 

Jon, have they started work on the Northern Bypass yet? If so, is it likely to impact the area where the railway is?

 

Assuming thats what all the costrution plant was for then yes they have started, and it looks like there is to be a flyover across the railway.

 

Jon

[jonhall]

 

I'm stunned you've not heard about them, given their plight has been top of the railway press over three major magazines (Steam Railway, Heritage Railway & The Railway Magazine) for the last two years.

.

 

Thats the problem, nobody has heard of them - if they want to save themselves, they need to be a bit more proactive about publisising themselves. I know about them because I know one of the early preservationists, but its still the first time I've been. When I arrived at about 2.30 I asked 'have you had many people through?' (bearing in mind this is the first of of only 4 operating days this year) and was told, 'yes we have been quite busy' followed by 'nearly at the hundred mark', which isn't really very many if you want to convey that you are a busy enterprise worth saving. As it was I happened to see the guards log for the day later, and 100 seemed to be an overestimate.

 

Jon

[Kenton]

Far from it - they're lovely people who work very hard in their little corner of England.

 

I'm stunned you've not heard about them, given their plight has been top of the railway press over three major magazines (Steam Railway, Heritage Railway & The Railway Magazine) for the last two years.

I was not being critical of their efforts to keep the line alive.

Not being a reader of the "railway press", in fact probably have never read the magazines cited, and often being fast to forget in passing remarks.

 

I also have no doubt of their enthusiasm. But the best way that this can prosper is by being as well publicised as possible and to get as many people visiting and thereby appreciating their efforts.

 

Just turning up on the off chance of them running/being "in-steam" is not going to help anyone. However next time I'm down there I'll look around me thanks to this heads up.

[S.A.C Martin]

I was not being critical of their efforts to keep the line alive.

Not being a reader of the "railway press", in fact probably have never read the magazines cited, and often being fast to forget in passing remarks.

 

Fair enough chap.

 

I also have no doubt of their enthusiasm. But the best way that this can prosper is by being as well publicised as possible and to get as many people visiting and thereby appreciating their efforts.

 

Whilst that is true, half the battle was making the site usable for the volunteers and thus, the general public. That it's been closed off to all over the last two years means it will take a lot of time and work to get the site fully operational. They are a very small group, and the funding is small. But nevertheless, they do advertise as best they can (in the magazines, on the web, and on Facebook).

 

Every little helps, mind. Perhaps a Youtube video or two wouldn't go amiss.

[invercloy]

...chosen at a time when the technology and economics were much less developed and understood; and the much larger size of the 2ft 6", being in many ways more akin to 3ft than 2ft operations and hence a better bet for 'common carrier' operations in the easier English terrain - presumably this is why although 2ft 6" was well known in India, the D&HR was built to 2ft gauge.

 

There's quite an interesting paper written by E.R. Calthrop on the benefits of using 2'6" gauge which appeared in 'Engineering' magazine and is reproduced in this book:

 

http://www.transportdiversions.com/publicationshow.asp?pubid=2103

 

Well worth a read.

[jonhall]

 

Whilst that is true, half the battle was making the site usable for the volunteers and thus, the general public. That it's been closed off to all over the last two years means it will take a lot of time and work to get the site fully operational. They are a very small group, and the funding is small. But nevertheless, they do advertise as best they can (in the magazines, on the web, and on Facebook).

 

Every little helps, mind. Perhaps a Youtube video or two wouldn't go amiss.

 

Whilst making this site fit for use is obviously a priority, getting people to use it has also got to be one. The support that the local council or m-real will give to a popular tourist atraction is going to be proportional to its percieved benefit to Sittinbourne (or lack of bad publicity for the property company)

 

Saving a line that only had 78 passengers on Sunday, isn't going to make Sittingbourne a tourist mecca, and perhaps closing it won't make M-real a big bad property company, so tghey have to get passengers flocking to them, and that needs publicity. Even VERY modest things like a few signs that say 'steam train rides today' would help bring the locals in, and they are the people who will provide the vociferous support that the Councillers will care about. i only saw one sandwich board sign, and that was practically hidden behind a tree.

 

Anyway the main point of this rant is to get the post back onto the top of the recent topics list. If you are free and can get to Sittingbourne tomorrow afternoon - go for a train ride on the SKLR.

 

Jon

[Paul Best]

Hello all,

 

I'm the press officer for the Sittingbourne & Kemsley Light Railway so I can explain our rationale for the advertising (or lack of) for this week's 40th Anniversary Celebrations.

 

The Railway closed to the public in 2008 following the cancellation of our lease by our landlord. The SOS (Save Our Steam railway/Save Our SKLR) was launched that summer and raised over £20k in the first few months. In 2009, the Railway was paid (compensation) to remain closed to enable negotiations and the land sale to go through. M-real closed Sittingbourne paper mill in January 2008 and wanted sell of its UK assets.

 

This summer, Essential Land purchased the site and has been in negotiation with the Railway with a view to the full reopening of the line. However, Milton Regis Viaduct, the kilometre-long reinforced concrete viaduct between Sittingbourne Viaduct station and Milton Regis (Asda) Halt required £20k of deferred maintenance work (programmed for winter 2008) which will now be carried out this winter.

 

Therefore, the Railway's Board of Trustees decided that the Railway would reopen to the public for just four days this half term holiday, to celebrate 40 years of public operation. Due to the outstanding viaduct work, the former Milton Regis Halt station (constructed in the 1990s when the viaduct was closed for repairs) was to become the southern terminus of the line for this event. Access to this station is from Asda's car park but due to the construction work at Asda (to install a mezzanine floor and expand the store) the car park has been reduced in size, because of this and the lack of facilities at Milton Regis (Asda) Halt, therefore, it was decided that the 40th anniversary celebration would be a low key affair and restricted to coverage in the local media and railway press.

 

Steam Railway magazine arranged for a gang of editorial team and readers to assist at the Railway and cleared the station site at Milton Regis (Asda) Halt. The local newspapers and radio also promoted our appeal for help bringing the site back up to standard for public operation and many new volunteers came forward, many subsequently becoming members.

 

The Railway and local media have been superb - the 40th anniversary celebration has been covered broadly. Last weekend three radio stations ran the story, as did the BBC News website, the local newspapers (the East Kent Gazette and Kent Messenger) have promoted the Railway with headline stories. I was interviewed by ITV's Meridian Tonight on Wednesday and the story was run all day on Thursday.

 

Locally, we have always struggled to be known (which is why we use the tagline 'Sittingbourne's Best Kept Secret') because despite running steam trains over the viaduct, for the best part of 40 years (trains have actually operated here for over 100 years), alongside one of the Town's main roads, and into Sittingbourne Retail Park (surrounded by fast food restaurants). The Railway is advertised in various shops and pubs around the town and even features in a photo montage in the Jenny Wren pub.

 

Asda has donated £15k for a new station at Milton Regis (Asda) Halt and will be providing new signs to publicise the station, they were hoping to deliver these last week but unfortunately they were not delivered in time for this event.

 

We will widely advertise the full reopening of the line (hoped to be Easter 2011) and now I have an account here I will make sure you are advised!

 

For further information on the Railway you could try the following:

• Website: www.sklr.net
• Podcast: http://stopem.libsyn.com or search iTunes for 'Sittingbourne'
• Photo site: www.flickr.com/photos/stopem
• Facebook: search for 'Sittingbourne'
• Twitter: @SandKLR or www.twitter.com/SandKLR
• You Tube: www.youtube.com/stopem

 

I'm sorry if you have not been able to visit us during over the last few days, I will happily give you more details of the event if you wish but in the meantime I will leave you with our passenger figures (we have never been 'mainstream' and probably never will but we do like to be 'friendly' because we're so small):

2008 Season - 24,000 passenger journeys

40th Anniversary Celebration - 1,200 passenger journeys so far!

 

Sorry for the ramble,

 

Paul

[Kenton]

We will widely advertise the full reopening of the line (hoped to be Easter 2011) and now I have an account here I will make sure you are advised!

Thank you for the explanation for those of us out of the loop, non-local and not followers of the heritage / Steam Railway magazines.

 

I, probably like many others, wish everything goes according to plan and look forward to the reopening announcement on this site.

I will certainly pay for a visit soon afterwards.

[Jim the Tram]

We visited as a car club a while ago The pics are here:- http://www.pbase.com/tr7v8/sklr_08&page=all

 

Here are a few.

[Burkitt]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1LjG4ofWeI

 

I filmed this from the rear of the last train back to Sittingbourne on the Saturday of the final operating weekend in 2008, and put it on Youtube in two parts. Now they accept videos up to 15 minutes long I have re-uploaded it in one part, and it's higher quality now too.

 

Paul

[Herr Dienstleiter]

Thank you for that video Paul, very nostalgic for me as I was - at one time - a regular guard on the SKLR.

 

The line is operating this summer, still from Milton as there is a lot of work to do to bring Sittingbourne Viaduct Station back into use. All the pipeways and steam gantries have been demolished in the last year or so and there is now a road overbridge for the Sittingbourne northern relief road. I would imagine the feel of the line is now rather different.

 

The key problem for the SKLR was always that it did not have any land rights, only a licence from the land owners with six months notice, which was eventually served - hence the closure of the line. I wish I had a fiver for every time that I have tried to explain that to some know-it-all gricer. However, the biggest step forward in the present situation is that the SKLR now has a lease on the main line. No one gives grants to people who do not have land rights although the borough council were able sometimes able to smuggle a little money in under cover of tourism development.

 

The first ever grant the line got from an outside body was £500 from the Co-op Community Fund - just enough to pay for the steelwork to make a critical repair to the half-mile long concrete viaduct, allowing trains to return to Sittingbourne after a three year hiatus. What were the members all doing? Raising the money to slowly and painfully repair the viaduct, for which outsiders rarely give them any credit at all. Membership is fairly small, often around 400 few of whom are local.

 

There's a comment above about 100 passengers not seeming like a very good total for a day's operation, when I was an active member a normal Sunday tally would be about 120 and that seemed pretty good to us. The late Tony Nokes, who was in charge of ticketing and the like, used to say that thirty people a train covered the costs with a little bit over. Which leads me to the SKLR's other long-term problem.

 

It is too short.

 

There's nothing can be done about that, it is blocked in at both ends but just under two miles is all there is - as a result most enthusiasts feel as though they have 'done' the line in one visit so the heart of the business is local families wanting a cheap afternoon out and that part works pretty well. However, the SKLR has one secret weapon which it ought to deploy more publicly: it is the only preserved railway in England. It runs the original locos with the original stock on the original route without interuption from the original operation - all the others are reconstruction or pastiche.

[Jack]

Its a shame that the railway wasn't rich enough to preserve the industrial scumminess of the Sittingbourne end, or the bleak feel of the marshes ... it just won't be the same with a bloomin' great road bridge and tidy housing estates in view.

 

However, I am a big fan of the line. Why? Well, it was the first one i went on. But more than that, it preserves the grimey, slow, ugly feel of an industrial railway ... it'll never be a Bluebell or a Ffestiniog ... which is a good thing.

 

Most importantly it is a brilliant testimony to the chaps who volunteer on this railway ... how easy would it have been over the years to chuck in the towel and take the stock somewhere else???

 

I've been on this line literally dozens of times and I can assure anyone thinking of going that one trip really isn't enough!!

 

There's nothing can be done about that, it is blocked in at both ends but just under two miles is all there is - as a result most enthusiasts feel as though they have 'done' the line in one visit so the heart of the business is local families wanting a cheap afternoon out and that part works pretty well. However, the SKLR has one secret weapon which it ought to deploy more publicly: it is the only preserved railway in England. It runs the original locos with the original stock on the original route without interuption from the original operation - all the others are reconstruction or pastiche.

 

I was pondering this on my last visit. Although the original route towards Ridham is now blocked by the papermill and the land fill, is there enough room to skirt the edge of the new rubbish mountain by the creek side, then rejoin the original route further north? A certain amount of groundwork would need to be done, along with moving some fences and ensuring there is still room for the Saxon Shore Way, but it may be possible.

[Herr Dienstleiter]

I was pondering this on my last visit. Although the original route towards Ridham is now blocked by the papermill and the land fill, is there enough room to skirt the edge of the new rubbish mountain by the creek side, then rejoin the original route further north? A certain amount of groundwork would need to be done, along with moving some fences and ensuring there is still room for the Saxon Shore Way, but it may be possible.

 

Unfortunately that route is blocked by 'green hill' as the planners called it. At the time they were very insistent about the exact profile of the tip although they did later let some of the material be removed again because it turned out it was really good for dumping of the fields of Sheppey once it had rotted down a bit.Frustratingly, the route of the standard gauge branch from Ridham is barely a hundred metres from the end of the cutting at Kemsley Down station but the 'new' effluent plant is right in the way. Incidentally, the old railway bridge over the cutting could still be seen last time I was there - it may still be in place. The old main line was buried under the concrete road that was built between the Kemsley mill site and Ridham. In turn, that has disappeared under the new distributor route for the huge Morrisons depot a mile south of Ridham. So the old route is lost.

 

One pipe dream of mine would be to divert the line creekwards at Burley crossing following the route of the short lived branch line, turn north alongside the creek for a couple of hundred metres and then west to rejoin the main line by way of the valley between the two land fill heaps. All that land is in a public trust. Such as extension would take the route over the 'magic' two mile length under which it is very difficult for a museum railway to prosper. Unfortunately, there is a dirty great gas pipe line parallel to the SKLR, it feeds the power station at Kemsley Mill, when it was built I did ask if we could have a little branch of it for railway use and was told that would be fine as long as we didn't mind a pilot light twelve metres long ... it's part of the National Gas Grid and they don't like people building on top of it!