Need some wiring assistance.

[scots region]

Hello all, I have an old L1 chassis that I'm in the process of reworking for a gem kit and I've recently received the replacement wheel from Markits. Now of course I need to remove the old gear wheel from the original axle and place it on the milled Romford axle. Unfortunately its stuck solid and I'm terrified of my sausage fingers ruining it. So whats your advice?

 

ScR

Edited June 19, 2017 by scots region

[david.hill64]

If you haven't got a proper puller you could support the gearwheel resting on the top of the jaws of a vice with the axle vertical and free to move. Gently tap the end of the axle.

 

Getting the gearwheel properly located on the new axle may be more of a problem.

[robert17649]

agree with the above, a bit of gentle heat applied to the gear wheel might help , I did get one to shift after a 24hr dose of WD40.

 

Alternatively they can be purchased on thingy bay.

 

 

If you can wait I'm back in country after 11th JULY and I think Ive got some old Hornby gear wheels in  a box, pm me .

[Enterprisingwestern]

If it's a brass gear wheel on a steel axle a few minutes in the oven should expand it enough to come off a little easier.

 

Mike.

[Guest Isambarduk]

" Gently tap the end of the axle."

 

Yes, but tap a punch (a suitable piece of rod) on the end of the axle, rather than hit the end of the axle with a hammer.

 

David

[scots region]

Thanks all for the advice, I managed to get it off after some hours soaking in WD40, I'll check back if anything else comes up.

[scots region]

Hello again, would anyone be interested in 'fixing' an L1 chassis that's had an utter clod look after it?

 

 

I ask because this has happened.

[scots region]

Any thoughts, how hard would it be to do a self repair? Only I've never done anything with electronics before.

[Guest Isambarduk]

A bit more background information on what you are trying to achieve would be helpful.  This is not really electronics (OK, there is a capacitor), it looks like just a rewiring job to me but do correct me if I am mistaken.

 

I know that multi-strand wire with thick insulation (as shown) is popular for this job but I use enamel coated wire from a scrapped transformer; it is more than capable of carrying the current (it's larger in diameter than the wire in the motor armature) and is easily bent into neat runs, including loops if more flexibility is desired.

 

David

[scots region]

A bit more background information on what you are trying to achieve would be helpful.  This is not really electronics (OK, there is a capacitor), it looks like just a rewiring job to me but do correct me if I am mistaken.

 

I know that multi-strand wire with thick insulation (as shown) is popular for this job but I use enamel coated wire from a scrapped transformer; it is more than capable of carrying the current (it's larger in diameter than the wire in the motor armature) and is easily bent into neat runs, including loops if more flexibility is desired.

 

David

 

Thank you David, I've got a Gem D34 'Glen' Class of North British fame thats on a very low boil, The Chassis is from a Tri-ang L1. Going on Tony Wrights advice I'm focusing on the chassis first, body second. Thus far I've managed to get the gear wheel on to the new romford axle, however its come at the expense of managing to break both the connection to the motor from the capacitor and the connection to the pickups as well. Since I've never done anything with electronics before I'm leary of going at it with a soldering iron, I could, but I'd prefer your advice first. 

 

ScR 

[kevinlms]

Thank you David, I've got a Gem D34 'Glen' Class of North British fame thats on a very low boil, The Chassis is from a Tri-ang L1. Going on Tony Wrights advice I'm focusing on the chassis first, body second. Thus far I've managed to get the gear wheel on to the new romford axle, however its come at the expense of managing to break both the connection to the motor from the capacitor and the connection to the pickups as well. Since I've never done anything with electronics before I'm leary of going at it with a soldering iron, I could, but I'd prefer your advice first. 

 

ScR 

Here is the service sheet for the old Tri-ang L1.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=180

 

and a later version, which looks almost identical.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=6

[Podhunter]

Would anyone be interested in 'fixing' an L1 chassis?

I'm sure that you can fix it.  First, throw away the grey capacitor: it's an ancient variety and its confusing you.  If you subsequently want to add radio interference suppression to your chassis, replace it with a modern, physically smaller, capacitor.  With the capacitor gone, there's no 'electronics' involved. 

 

The chassis is live and connected electrically to the wheels on one side and also to the frame of your X04 motor.  The wheels on the other side are insulated and current is collected by the brown springy metal (phosphor-bronze) bits.  They should be screwed to the chassis with an insulating bush to isolate them electrically.  Connect the collectors to the motor insulated side using fine wire.  Here are some photos of X04 motors including the brushes and wiring.

[scots region]

I'm sure that you can fix it.  First, throw away the grey capacitor: it's an ancient variety and its confusing you.  If you subsequently want to add radio interference suppression to your chassis, replace it with a modern, physically smaller, capacitor.  With the capacitor gone, there's no 'electronics' involved. 

 

The chassis is live and connected electrically to the wheels on one side and also to the frame of your X04 motor.  The wheels on the other side are insulated and current is collected by the brown springy metal (phosphor-bronze) bits.  They should be screwed to the chassis with an insulating bush to isolate them electrically.  Connect the collectors to the motor insulated side using fine wire.  Here are some photos of X04 motors including the brushes and wiring.

Should I forgo the capacitor altogether and wire directly, or should I replace it with a newer cremaic one?

[Podhunter]

Should I forgo the capacitor altogether and wire directly, or should I replace it with a newer cremaic one?

Manufacturers are obliged to fit radio-interference suppressors such as a capacitor, but you are not.  Today you can see that the major manufactures fit both a capacitor and one or two ferrite chokes (inductors).  However, the motor will operate fine without such electronic decoration.  You only have to worry about the neighbours who may wonder why their TV is displaying a picture of a blizzard when they want to watch X-Factor.

 

I suggest that, should your conscience trouble you, you solder in a capacitor after the chassis is behaving perfectly.  Adding a capacitor has no effect on the motor but may serve to calm the fiery sparks you can see emitted by the X04 carbon brushes when operating.  And the neighbours can resume watching X-Factor.

[scots region]

Hello all again, this is the results of the last weeks work, I've managed to fit the replacement driving wheels and coupling rods, Hornby T9 spare. However it will not run, I was somewhat expecting this. Here are the photos. 

 

 

 

 

I have observed that a Hornby shunter I have uses a type of small Orange capacitor that I have seen for sale quite cheaply on eBay, could that make a suitable replacement?

 

ScR.

[MarkNJ]

Hi ScR,

 

It looks like you need to connect the spring wire pick up to the insulated carbon brush.

 

Mark

 

 

Hello all again, this is the results of the last weeks work, I've managed to fit the replacement driving wheels and coupling rods, Hornby T9 spare. However it will not run, I was somewhat expecting this. Here are the photos. 

 

SAM_1184.JPG

 

SAM_1185.JPG

 

SAM_1186.JPG

 

I have observed that a Hornby shunter I have uses a type of small Orange capacitor that I have seen for sale quite cheaply on eBay, could that make a suitable replacement?

 

ScR.

[DCB]

That ain't going to work.

 

1st problem the pick up wire, the brown connects to the same end of the white capacitor/ thingy as the red which goes to the little tag under the insulated side brush.   The Capacitor is important on DC as you will get flash overs on the commutator without it.  If you don't use the original use a ceramic capacitor in its place.

 

2nd problem side play.  You have miles of side play between the wheels and the chassis and it will either limp along like a most likely crab along the rails if the worm drive actually remains in mesh.   I always shim between the gear wheel and sides of the chassis with washers or sometimes brass spacers drilled to take the axles to give around 10 thou, 0.010" clearance.  I must have done 40 or more locos like this over the years with a notable improvement in running

 Not many people do this, most shim behind the driving wheels using Romford shims  but they are for 1/8" axles.  so won't fit the Markits Triang axle. If you shim behind the driving wheels on the gear axle I find the wheels work loose.   For this reason I use 1/8" axles with Romford top hat bushes for the non drive axles so I can use Romford shims. If you use the Markits large axles you may have to file up your own spacers to get the wheels equally spaced across the chassis but the time is well spent.

It should be blindingly obvious that the loco centre line view from the front should be dead centre in the middle of the track but a visit to almost any exhibition says otherwise with a wide variety of nodding donkey type limping Lulus swaying drunkenly from side to side.

 

3rd problem, there is so much side play that the coupling rods on the insulated side will hit and short out the wheel rims. The rods are live to the chassis and only the wheel rims are insulated.  Restricting the sideplay to 10 thou ish should cure it, otherwise use a small washer like the rim from a romford pin point bearing under the crank pin to space it away from the wheel.

 

With these few changes it should give many years further service at least 50....

[N15class]

Hi looking at your photos. As above pack out the axles to stop the side play. Little is actually needed.i see you have a pair of insulated and a pair of non insulated. The pickups need to be on the insulated side. The wire then goes to the insulated brush. You don't need the capacitor unless the neighbours complain.

[auld_boot]

Also it looks to me like you have the insulated rim wheels on the wrong side, I think the spring pick-ups on the bottom of the chassis should be running against just the rims of the insulated wheels.

[scots region]

Hello all again, I'm considering what my next move should be, On the one hand I quite like to get the chassis sorted and move on to the loco itself, so I'd like to arrange for someone to fix my mistake and get on with it. But on the other hand I've been thinking about the possibility of using a Hornby T9 chassis, after all the coupling rods fit. What are your thoughts?

[Grovenor]

the chassis you have is as basic and simple as they come, get it sorted first then you will have learned enough to progress to more complex examples such as a T9 chassis.

The advice above should be enough to get you through.

In summary

1. Needs to be insulated wheels on one side, for the pick up strip to contact the rims, uninsulated wheels the other side to connect rail to chassis.

2. Pick up strip must be insulated from chassis

3. Wire must connect the pick up strip to the insulated motor brush

 

Before connecting the wire (or if already done just remove the connector from the brush spring) test that the motor runs by applying voltage between the insulated brush and the motor frame directly

Regards