08's, freight & the main line

[RateTheFreight]

Evening all,

 

Having recently purchased a Farish 08 for my small n gauge layout, I was wondering whether they were ever found hauling short consist freights on branch or main lines.

 

Appreciating their low speed, gearing and function as shunters/pilots I wondered if there were any examples of them doing anything a bit different.

 

If it helps my 08 is in BR green without wasp stripes.

 

G

[TomJ]

I can think of a couple of examples for the St Blazey 08s in Cornwall. One local trip was from the yard to Ponts Mill clay works about a mile of so on the Newquay branch. Due to lack of run round this train was usually propelled and led by a brake van.

The other was the Wenford Bridge trip. The 08s were the only locos permitted between boscarne junction and Wenford but could only manage eight loaded clay wagons on the climb back into Bodmin. So an 08 took the empties all the way to Wenford (along the Mainline to Bodmin Rd) and back to Boscarne Junction. Here a larger loco took the loaded wagons onto Fowey Docks and the 08 + brake van returned to St Blazey

[tamperman36]

08s used to do regular trip workings around the Sheffield area with steel traffic. 08s also used to make runs from Knottingley to Milford sidings and Gasgione wood to collect crippled coal wagons and return them to the wagon repair shop at Knottingley. Both Knottingley and Tinsley received a pair of 09s in the 1990s to allow higher speeds on trip workings.

[The Johnster]

Local trip workings for short distances on main lines were very common work for 08s in the early post-steem era, as in many cases they inherited duties directly from small steam locos which worked trips and shunted the yard that the trips originated from between trips.  These might, allowed by Section Appendix instructions, even be propelling movements, right or wrong road, and may or may not have used brake vans.  A travelling shunter often accompanied the traincrew; the cab of an 08 could be crowded though convivial place.

 

08s were not particularly designed for such work, being pure shunting engines conceived as yard or station pilots, but, post steam, there were no other suitable locos available, unless you count the D95xx class 14. Their low speed limited the range of such operations, but many were very local in nature anyway.  In my own experience in the early 70s at Canton, we had an 08 duty that was the yard pilot for Penarth Curve North goods yard, at the back of Canton shed off the Taff Vale Penarth Harbour branch, just south of Ninian Park Halt; after shunting the yard out, it worked a trip to the Ferry Road branch, serving the various small workshops and scrapyards down there and the Esso oil terminal at Ely Harbour, propelling the train down right road, and then shunted the traffic it had collected back at the yard.  It then worked a trip to Ely Paper Mill, propelling right road, left traffic and picked up outgoing (Ely Paper Mill had it's own RSH saddle tank), and hauled the traffic back wrong road, the end wagon carrying a white lamp and the loco a red.  After sorting this out back at the yard, there was another as required trip to Ferry Road, followed by more yard pilot work and ending the day with a transfer freight to Radry; this was the only part of the duty that featured a brake van, or ran more than a mile from the yard on running lines.  The trains were all loose coupled with no through brake, but as the running lines were level this was sanctioned by the Sectional Appendix, but as there were gradients on the Radyr part of the working a brake van was provided.  This was fairly typical of such workings all over the country, and quite unremarkable.  It was also great fun, and proper railway work...

 

Work for your 08 is only limited by your imagination; if ever a loco suited the phrase 'anything goes', it is the Gronk.

Edited June 19, 2017 by The Johnster

[br2975]

"Johnster" has set the scene regarding the working that later became 9E76

.

By about  the 1971-1972 WTT the working had moved from PCN (Penarth Curve North) to become a Radyr based working.

.

I've attached a breakdown of what a day entailed for 9E76 during the 1975-1976 WTT.

.

Brian R

9E76 030576-031076-in detail.xls

[br2975]

During the early 1970s, Radyr had two Class 08 trips which went 'main line'

.

9E76 has been described above, which tripped from Radyr to PCN, Ferry Road, Virgil Street coal yard and Ely Paper Mill.

.

9E68 worked 'up' the Taff Vale main line from Radyr, as follows:-

Radyr Jcn. dep 06:55

Pontypridd 07:42 (run round).

07:57 Pontypridd-Treforest 08:05. shunt.

08:50 Treforest-Pontypridd Gds. 09:05.

09:15 Pontypridd Gds shunt

10:25 Pontypridd Gds-Treforest Estate 10:55.

11:00-14:40 shunt Treforest Estate.

14:45 Treforest Estate - Maesmawr 14:50.

15:03 Maesmawr-Radyr arr. 15:24

.

Radyr diagram 9C90, although booked for a Class 37 circa 1971-1972, was occasionally worked by a Class 08, and in later years became a  Class 08 diagram

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In 1971-1972 9C90 worked as follows:-

08:30 Radyr Quarry - Roath Branch Jcn. arr. 08:45

Roath Branch Jcn-Cathays  arr. 10:00.

10:00 SX shunt Cathays C & W (and Powell Duffryn wagon works as required).

11:30 Cathays -Radyr arr.11:45

.

Brian R

Edited June 19, 2017 by br2975

[guzzler17]

The Holmthorpe sand working near Redhill was worked by an 08 in the early 80s, here are a couple of links to photos

 

http://www.railpixtc.co.uk/80sArchive/1980-1984/1981/i-2DXGVXQ

 

http://www.railpixtc.co.uk/80sArchive/1980-1984/1981/i-9M7JH79

 

[rodent279]

Interesting thread here.

 

Have there ever been diagrammed passenger work for 08/09's? Apart from the well known shunts at Sheffield & other places, that is.

 

cheers N

[anroar53]

Evening all,

 

Having recently purchased a Farish 08 for my small n gauge layout, I was wondering whether they were ever found hauling short consist freights on branch or main lines.

 

Appreciating their low speed, gearing and function as shunters/pilots I wondered if there were any examples of them doing anything a bit different.

 

If it helps my 08 is in BR green without wasp stripes.

 

G

Have attached a few scans from 1966/9 Local 'Trip' workings, covered by 08s in the London Area. At the time some would have still been in grubby green, but with wasp stripes. At one time this part of the Midland had numerous Freight Yards between St. Pancras and Hendon. This involved a lot of Inter-Yard work, much of which was entrusted to 08s, or 350s as they were referred to in the notices. Each working had its own number, and were usually called 'Target-21' and such like.

I can remember these workings quite well, they would be made up of mainly 10T Box Vans, with a sprinkling of other wagons. Often they would not have a Brake Van, the tail lamp being hung over the draw hook of the last vehicle, where it would rock slowly 'to and fro'.

The 08 would very often being worked flat out, wobbling from side to side, rods flailing to almost a blur, trying to keep out of the way of other traffic.

Travelling on a St. Pancras bound 127 one day we were held briefly on the approaches to Finchley Road, and were overtaken on the Goods Line by an 08 and a dozen or so wagons doing its best express freight impersonation.

 

Sorry the scans are a bit yellow with age.

 

 

Makes me realise just how much has disappeared from the railways now, and most of the once numerous Yards have disappeared under housing and small industry.

 

Andy.

Edited June 19, 2017 by anroar53

[clachnaharry]

A 1970's weekday in Aberdeen would see one 08 shunting Craiginches yard, one shunting Guild Street yard, one as station pilot also shunting Clayhills carriage sidings, and one running up and down the mainline tripping between Craiginsches yard, Guild street yard, Kittybrewster coal concentration depot on the Waterloo branch. Kittybrewster and the Waterloo branch would never see main line locos at that time, with all deliveries being made by the 08 trip.

 

There was a fifth 08 allocated (spare?) and an 06 which saw very occasional use on the dock lines.

[Fat Controller]

Four workings in South and West Wales come to mind:-

Until the section beyond Cynheidre was taken into NCB ownership in the late 1960s, there was a daily pick-up freight from Llandeilo Junction to Cross Hands on the L&MMR. Traffic was usually coal, bricks from Horeb brickworks and the occasional load of animal feed or fertiliser. The return trip was probably about twenty miles, and took most of the day.

There were regular trip workings between Llandeilo Junction yard and the Llanelly Steel (later Duport) works, some three or four miles west on the main line to Fishguard. This was usually block trains of engineer's bar on Twin-Bolsters or Bolster Es, or ingots in Plate wagons, ultimately intended for Great Bridge or Briton Ferry respectively. Why this traffic was 'staged' in this manner, rather than being worked throughout by a main-line loco, I never understood.

The ex-Midland Morriston branch trip from Swansea Eastern Depot, which ran until Landore Foundry shut in the early 1980s, was almost always an 08 turn. Stock was scrap in mineral wagons for Landore, various Plates, Warflats and Flats carrying moulds from Landore, scrap from a couple of local yards, coal to Morriston East, and tinplate (in Shock-Vans) to and from the Steel Company of Wales' Duffryn warehouse.

The final working was much more recent, starting some time in the 1990s. An 09 was used to work steel traffic from Llanwern steelworks to various works on the Uskmouth branch, and to Newport docks via ADJ yard. An 09 was used as the train had to run several miles on the Relief Lines of the South Wales Main Line- at one time, this working had been diagrammed for 'Falcon'.

[Nearholmer]

And, if none of the foregoing suit, they were occasionally used on engineer's trains. Normally this would be for jobs "close to home", but one night I was in charge of a train that had to travel blooming miles out into the countryside to site, and it was rostered to our yard shunting loco ...... exceedingly time-wasting!

[Rugd1022]

As well as shortish mainline trips, small groups of 08s would sometimes be moved between depots for fuelling and maintenance, I remember a Stonebridge Park old hand telling me he and a mate had to take three of them from Willesden to Stratford Works in the late '60s, it took them a whole shift just to get across London. I also recall another old boy at Old Oak telling me he cadged a lift on a pair from Swindon to Didcot in the wee small hours in the early '70s, that must have been a painfully slow trip.

Edited June 19, 2017 by Rugd1022

[Pete the Elaner]

Colchester's 08 used to shunt wagons around at the nearby coal yard which was either side of Hythe station, about 2 miles away. I saw it there on one occasion from a distance.

I believe the delivery/collection was made to'from the yard at Colchester, not directly to Hythe. I understand this was done overnight & even though I passed through Hythe regularly I never saw any movement, just that the wagons had been moved occasionally.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Could they actually make their rated 20mph, or did wise crews run them rather slower than that? (Memories of how they used to yaw very visibly when seen approaching head on while out running.) I saw them regularly employed on the 'Welwyn Shunt' between Hatfield and WGC yards in the 1960s, usually with a very modest load: and it was easy to beat them on the ancient single speed Raleigh boneshaker inherited from my Pa, by the road route which was significantly greater in distance, from the 'Red Lion' bridge in Hatfield to the Twentieth mile bridge in WGC.

[luckymucklebackit]

Coatbridge (Kipps and later Whifflet Based) had a duty that took them up the line from Sunnyside Junction to Airdrie, they had to be smart as the Blue Trains (class 303) ran every 15 mins.  Once beyond Airdrie they had the line to themselves. On two occasions that I witnessed they came to a complete and abrupt stand right outside my back window and had to be rescued by another loco dragging them, all wheels locked down the line by applying oil to the rail top - would this have been shifted cranks causing a lock up?

 

Jim

[The Johnster]

They rode extremely well, until you began to move, then things deteriorated rapidly.  I recall one Cardiff Docks driver telling me that he knew when he was off the road in some of the darker corners on night shifts because the ride improved.  I did hit 20mph with one returning light to Canton from a Sunday ballast job out at St Fagan's; it was, um, interesting...  Your old Raleigh was probably a lot more comfortable, although the hotplate on an 08 was very effective.

 

I am not aware of them ever being used on passenger working; ecs of course but not passenger working.  There is no reason I am aware of except for the low speed that they couldn't have been, though they could not have provided steam heating in the winter, and of course they have been used on passenger trains on 'heritage' lines, but I think I'm going to have to amend my comment to 'almost anything goes'.

[CloggyDog]

Colchester's 08 used to shunt wagons around at the nearby coal yard which was either side of Hythe station, about 2 miles away. I saw it there on one occasion from a distance.

I believe the delivery/collection was made to'from the yard at Colchester, not directly to Hythe. I understand this was done overnight & even though I passed through Hythe regularly I never saw any movement, just that the wagons had been moved occasionally.

 

https://flic.kr/p/hzJNxz

 

Oval-buffered CR gronk 08256 on a Colchester area trip in 1979, towing a vanwide, 2 rebodied VB 16t mins, a 22t Tube, 13t sheeted highfit and a brake van.

 

 

As for rostered passenger workings, I was by chance looking through my copy of Loco-Hauled Travel for 1982 at the weekend which listed a good dozen shunt moves, attaching or detaching portions from mostly overnight workings at a range of places - I'll post more gen when I get back home this evening.

Edited June 19, 2017 by CloggyDog

[Oldddudders]

The Holmthorpe sand working near Redhill was worked by an 08 in the early 80s

As it had been since the late '50s.

[anroar53]

As well as shortish mainline trips, small groups of 08s would sometimes be moved between depots for fuelling and maintenance, I remember a Stonebridge Park old hand telling me he and a mate had to take three of them from Willesden to Stratford Works in the late '60s, it took them a whole shift just to get across London. I also recall another old boy at Old Oak telling me he cadged a lift on a pair from Swindon to Didcot in the wee small hours in the early '70s, that must have been a painfully slow trip.

Chart Leacon Ashford had a small fleet of 09s. Two would normally be outbased at Tonbridge, one for the West Yard, and one for the Transfesa sidings at Paddock Wood. A couple would also be allocated to Dover Town Yard/Western Docks. There was a night turn at Ashford which would take a fresh one to where it was required, returning to Chart with the one scheduled for Fuel or Maintenance. It took a whole duty as the Tonbridge ones could be recessed at Headcorn or Paddock Wood to allow other traffic to pass. The Dover turn could sometimes take the long way round via Canterbury and the Minster triangle.

The Paddock Wood 09 would return to Tonbridge in the early afternoon, loaded in the cab were carrier bags of Spanish Onions and Oranges, sometimes Potatoes. These were given to the crew by the staff at the Transfesa Depot. The contents were shared out in the Depot. Remember having some nice huge Spanish Onions, lasted the whole week!

 

Andy.

[Titan]

Coatbridge (Kipps and later Whifflet Based) had a duty that took them up the line from Sunnyside Junction to Airdrie, they had to be smart as the Blue Trains (class 303) ran every 15 mins.  Once beyond Airdrie they had the line to themselves. On two occasions that I witnessed they came to a complete and abrupt stand right outside my back window and had to be rescued by another loco dragging them, all wheels locked down the line by applying oil to the rail top - would this have been shifted cranks causing a lock up?

 

Jim

 

Most likely burst motors due to overspeed. This would often cause bent rods/shifted cranks due to one axle stopping whilst the others keep turning, or at least try to...

 

I wonder if anyone has a pic of an 08 with bent rods?

Edited June 19, 2017 by Titan

[Nearholmer]

No pictures, but I can vouch that they were not uncommon. It could happen from several different causes: burst armatures; differential adhesion when working very hard; etc. There was speculation in another thread that the rods were deliberately designed so as to bend at forces lower than those that caused the cranks to shift.

 

K

[Guest]

As well as shortish mainline trips, small groups of 08s would sometimes be moved between depots for fuelling and maintenance, I remember a Stonebridge Park old hand telling me he and a mate had to take three of them from Willesden to Stratford Works in the late '60s, it took them a whole shift just to get across London. I also recall another old boy at Old Oak telling me he cadged a lift on a pair from Swindon to Didcot in the wee small hours in the early '70s, that must have been a painfully slow trip.

 

Another regular was a "changeover" between Norwood and Brighton depots. Always overnight around 1am. Being a Class 09, we could reach the dizzying speed of 27mph, but still a rotten job to go all the way down the Brighton main line and then back again with a different engine. Ugh.

[The Johnster]

No passenger workings as such yet; attaching or detaching stock carrying passengers by pilots within station limits doesn't count IMHO.

 

Overspeed burnout of traction motors was not uncommon, and as well as the causes outlined by Nearholmer, could be the result of drivers' applying power in the opposite direction while shunting, in spite of being instructed not to, while the loco was still moving.  This would bring the loco to a stand and 'bounce' it off the other way under the influence of back EMF, electro-motive force.  The loco would stand a fair bit of this abuse, but sooner or later someone would push things too far trying to save time and the armature would fry, at which point the loco wouldn't play any more and just sat where it was in a sulk, and who can blame it?  Or so I was told by drivers at Canton who were sometimes a bit sniffy about the abilities of those outstationed at Cardiff Docks...

[CloggyDog]

Most likely burst motors due to overspeed. This would often cause bent rods/shifted cranks due to one axle stopping whilst the others keep turning, or at least try to...

 

I wonder if anyone has a pic of an 08 with bent rods?

 

I can do you 08591 at Stranraer in the late-1980s with a curved leading section...

 

08 591 Stranraer by Alan Monk, on Flickr