regme Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Hi Due to my limited knowledge of electrical components can anyone tell me if these two relays are the same https://www.rapidonline.com/zettler-electronics-az850p2-12-pcb-mount-relay-2-co-dpdt-59-5296?utm_source=AffWin&utm_medium=Affiliate&awc=1799_1497914314_22da667374dbcd3c0f89f866c89345db http://au.rs-online.com/web/p/latching-relays/6995904/?origin=PSF_428012|alt So from my understanding, this particular relay (rapidonline) I can use the CDU to power the coil side of the relay and the other side I can use to switch the colours of the LED's (with their own power supply) Which leeads me to how to wire them up. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) Hi I assume you want the relay to operate and latch or unlatch with the CDU pulse to the solenoid motor? On no account should you operate the CDU or solenoid motors coil via the relays contacts. No other problems should be encountered so long as the correct twin coil latching relay is used. You can of course obtain these devices ready built from Gaugemaster GM500 or Brimal MR204. http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=GM500&style=main&strType=&Mcode=Gaugemaster+GM500 http://www.brimal.co.uk/latching-indicator-circuit-for-momentary-switch.html Building your own you would need a suitable twin coil latching relay, Ideally three diodes and a piece of strip board to mount everything on. I use the Bitsbox twin coil latching relay item SW105 without any issues via a CDU. https://www.bitsbox.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=253&products_id=1924&zenid=ajgan2q9taosdg1lng1a1dk0b7 Alternative twin coil latching relays can be sourced from Rapid such as item 63-1540 12v or item 63-1533 24v coils. https://www.rapidonline.com/hongfa-hfd3-012-l2s-pcb-mount-relay-12v-dc-dpdt-2-coils-latching-smt-term-63-1540 https://www.rapidonline.com/hongfa-hfd3-024-l2-pcb-mount-relay-24v-dc-dpdt-2-coils-latching-63-1533 While those I use are a nominal 12v coil they work ok via a CDU as the pulse is very short in duration and unlikely to cause coil failure of the relay. However, if you prefer or your CDU is outputting a high DC voltage then consider using 24 volt coil relays. But ensure their minimum operating voltage is below that of the CDU output DC volts. Of possible interest the basic idea is shown on my web site here... http://www.brian-lambert.co.uk/Electrical%20page%202.html#Unable Edit to add Bitsbox URL Edited June 24, 2017 by Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 I use relays the other way round with my points motors. My DCC accessory decoder pulses into the relay coil which pulls in momentarily and ports the CDU energy through the relay main contacts to the solenoid. A pair of relays is needed per solenoid, cumbersome but reliable. It also allows me to have a manual point selector method (rotary selectors and press to make button switches) in parallel with the DCC selection for added convenience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
regme Posted June 20, 2017 Author Share Posted June 20, 2017 Thanks for that. My aim was to use a CDU (the advanced one built from Brian's site) with momentary switch(on-off-on) that also allows me to turn LED's on the control panel. So my understanding was that, I was going to wire the latching relay in parallel with the solenoid point motor the CDU would power the relay while the other side of the relay was power by a 12V supply to light up the LED's to indicate which way th point motor (either Hornby or peco) was thrown. Sorry for the repeat, I just want to make sure I'm understanding this before I do something stupid. More learning is required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 (edited) Do what Brian said. And have a good look at his web site. You're unlikely to go far wrong if you do Edited June 21, 2017 by ejstubbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) Thanks for that. My aim was to use a CDU (the advanced one built from Brian's site) with momentary switch(on-off-on) that also allows me to turn LED's on the control panel. So my understanding was that, I was going to wire the latching relay in parallel with the solenoid point motor the CDU would power the relay while the other side of the relay was power by a 12V supply to light up the LED's to indicate which way th point motor (either Hornby or peco) was thrown. Sorry for the repeat, I just want to make sure I'm understanding this before I do something stupid. More learning is required. Your reasoning sounds good. You want to use the relays for LEDs. Obviously you need "12volt" LEDs or a suitable resistors. I would use the 10 pin type fitted into the mounting sockets as I would probably melt the relay trying to solder to the 8 pin versions pins. These relays wont take CDU output across their contacts nor would I trust them to switch frog polarity especially on DCC but for your specific application lighting LEDs they sound ideal. Edited June 22, 2017 by DavidCBroad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
regme Posted June 22, 2017 Author Share Posted June 22, 2017 Thanks for all, I'll let you know how I get on Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted June 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) If I am reading this right, you are intending to wire the Relay Coil in parallel with the Point Motor Coil? If this is the case then the Relay Won't Latch after the CDU has discharged. Edited June 22, 2017 by Pannier Tank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
28XX Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 This is possible with a two coil latching relay. Neither of those in the OP are of that type. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 22, 2017 Share Posted June 22, 2017 See post 3 with URL links to related items and some ready made latching units, or how to make your own using twin coil latching relays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted June 22, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2017 (edited) My apologies, that'll teach me to read all of the thread before replying!! Edited June 22, 2017 by Pannier Tank Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted June 23, 2017 Share Posted June 23, 2017 (edited) This is possible with a two coil latching relay. Neither of those in the OP are of that type. If you read the original post you will see both are twin coil latching relays, one for direct PCB mounting and one for a 10 pin mounting socket. My only concern is that with only 8 pins for DPDT the 8 pin may work through reversing the current across the coils but the ten should be OK with separate circuits for each coil and I wouldn't advise a direct PCB mount one in any case Edited June 23, 2017 by DavidCBroad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
regme Posted June 23, 2017 Author Share Posted June 23, 2017 So this is how it would work (not my sketch) In regard to the wiring, using the 10 pin reply, how would this go? I have had a look at the data sheet for the 10 pin reply but I don'y really understand what I'm looking at. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted June 24, 2017 Share Posted June 24, 2017 (edited) If that is how you want the LEDs lit then its fine. You need a twin coil latching relay -These have 10 pins for a DPDT type, which are the ones you linked too from Rapid (not the RS ones) or use the ones I linked too in post #3 from Rapid which are a little cheaper! You don't necessarily have to use the other half of the switch to operate the relays coils, they can connect to the two feeds going to the solenoid motor. Of course the relay's two coil returns are connected together and run back to the CDU negative. Pin arrangement vary relay make to make. However there are four connections for the two coils. Two for Latch and two for the unlatch. All the remaining connections are the two sets of change-over contacts inside the relay. Normally along one side there are three and three along the other side. So each row of three is electrically separate from the other sides three. In each group of three is a moving contact that will make connection to one of the two remaining pins. It will make to one when Unlatched and then break that connection and make to the other when Latched. Using the relay from Rapid you linked too.. 59-5296.... Pin 1 is the positive Latch coil input and at the far end pin 5 is the same coils negative connection. On the other side pin 10 is the Unlatch coil positive and pin 6 is that same coils negative. Link together pins 5 and 6 and take the wire to the CDU Negative output. Switching contacts are - Pins 3 and 8 are the two moving contacts. Pins 2 & 9 are made to 3 and 8 respectively when the relay in unlatched. When latched pins 3 & 8 make to pins 4 & 7 respectively. So Unlatched pin 3 and 2 are connected as too are pins 8 & 9. When latched pin 3 connects to pin 4 as too does pin 8 to pin 7. The ones I linked to from Rapid are slightly different in that they are based on a 12 way connection grid, pins 2 and 11 are missing (there is just a space where they would normally be). Look at the data sheet page 49 bottom right for the twin coil arrangement https://www.rapidonline.com/pdf/507587_da_en_01.pdf Edited to correct typos and add URL Edited June 24, 2017 by Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
regme Posted June 24, 2017 Author Share Posted June 24, 2017 Thanks so much, just what I was after. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now