Conflats – Why at the Front?

[Evertrainz]

In most 50's-60's pictures I see of freights, most of the Conflats with containers are at the front of the rake, followed by a string of vans if present.

 

Was this to make for easy unloading? Or were they more prone to being marshalled into trains due to the "door to door" concept?

[jwealleans]

If you look at 1930s pictures of the LNER's King's Cross - Niddrie goods (the 'Scotch Goods') the same thing is usually apparent.  I assumed it was a feature of the way the trains were marshalled at KX.  I did ask the question of the LNER Society and wa snever given an answer, which leads me to think it was a circumstantial or accidental thing rather than any deliberate policy or instruction.

 

I have to say I hadn't noticed the same thing in post-war pictures: can you point out a few examples?

[Evertrainz]

Ah, at this point I realize that as you say, it may have been arbitrary. But regardless here's a very small list of some off Flickr, haven't really gone digging for more.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/64518788@N05/8331960317/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/50100442@N05/17163021393/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/8750571814/

 

But I do see either these loaded Conflats or a van in the front of a rake... Apart from the fitted head concept, what benefit was there to putting these at the front?

[manna]

G'day Gents

 

There could be a couple of reasons, maybe none are right, Fitted head, they maybe easy for the shunter to recognize at a distance, he knew they were fitted.  The train engine picked these up while the train was being made up ! from another part of the yard. They were tripped in just before the train was due out ??

 

manna

[SRman]

The fitted head was my first thought too, manna. The conflats were known to be vacuum braked so would be easy to marshal as the first bloc of wagons.

Like you, I can't say that this really was the reason, but it is a logical theory.

[Evertrainz]

I am not sure what percent of vans (all pre-nationalisation designs as well as BR Standard 12T) were fitted but if it was a lower percentage I s'pose it makes sense that Conflats were easy spotted and identified as being fitted.

[rodent279]

I would have thought brakes come into it, too. Plus maybe there were special requirements for shunting conflats- not over a hump etc. You don't want a container moving on its wagon!

[Fat Controller]

Might it because they would have been loaded in a different part of the yard, or even in a different yard, to the vans and open merchandise wagons; certainly, this was the case in Swansea, where containers were dealt with at Hafod Yard, whilst vans were handled at High St.

The fact that Conflats were fitted would mean they'd tend to be in the front portion of a partially-fitted freight, at least when laden. When empty, along with several other similar types, they'd be marshalled further back.

Containers were, on the prototype, tightly secured with chains, so 'humping' wouldn't have been a factor. 

[jwealleans]

Have a look through Dave Ford's thread of photos from 1947-55 and see what they show.  I went through as far as page 6 and found a couple of shots showing odd conflats down along a train.  I suspect where there is a block, as has been said, they'd be dealt with in a different part of a yard, or a different yard, so would be marshalled together.  As fitted vehicles, they'd all tend to go towards the head.  That may only apply to longer distance workings - on trips or locals they would (I assume) go into the most appropriate cut.  The photos you linked to all look like main line/long distance workings to me.

[The Stationmaster]

Loaded Conflats were simply that - vacuum fitted and therefore marshalled in the fitted portion (unless there was a marshalling reason by virtue of destination to put them elsewhere in a train).

 

Empty (i.e. devoid of a container load) Conflats were a different proposition and c.late 1966/67 were barred from being marshalled in fitted heads following a number of derailments.

[Evertrainz]

Yes, that was another quirk I noticed — none of the Conflats at the head were empty. And it did lead me to think that the loaded Conflats most resembled the preferred van in shape (B- containers atleast).

 

But I have never seen a container at the helm in a Medfit or Highfit, presumably because there are no chains.

 

So basically on long-distance freights, Vanfits or loaded Conflats were preferred, and unladed Conflats were later banned from the fitted head?

[Fat Controller]

I've seen both Medfits and Highs carrying containers at the front of trains; there wasn't much free space for the container to move about in. They were especially popular with the military, and with customers sending goods that might be worth pilfering. Lowfits were expressly forbidden to be used for containers, as their bodies were wider, so giving the container latitude to move. They didn't have chaining-down points either. Mind you, neither did the ex-SR Conflat C; the one example I saw loaded looked as though it had taken part in a macrame competition, the roping was so intricate.

[Evertrainz]

I've seen both Medfits and Highs carrying containers at the front of trains; there wasn't much free space for the container to move about in. They were especially popular with the military, and with customers sending goods that might be worth pilfering. Lowfits were expressly forbidden to be used for containers, as their bodies were wider, so giving the container latitude to move. They didn't have chaining-down points either. Mind you, neither did the ex-SR Conflat C; the one example I saw loaded looked as though it had taken part in a macrame competition, the roping was so intricate.

I think I started a topic years ago regarding Lowfits and containers but were there not 4 small rings at the ends of the wagon's planked flooring? I would assume these could be used to chain down the container.

 

But on to your former point it's interesting how customers can 'pick and choose' which sort of wagon they wanted their container loaded into, the security of the goods being better in Highfits hadn't struck me before.

[Steven B]

Barrowmore MRG have a copy of BR's document on loading containers onto conflat and other wagons which is worth a read, although it doesn't give any information as to why conflats are often at the head of the train.

 

I wonder if Conflats are often at the front of a train so that they're given a softer ride (as per horse-boxes), meaning the containers are less likely to come loose from the wagon.

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B