Fare Calculation

[Deonyi]

I wonder if anyone here knows how fares were calculated before the advent of electronic means. Not particularly related to railway modelling, but one's interests do tend to seep out of the modelling field! Obviously the fares for local stations would be known, and printed on tickets, but how would fares for rarely used routes be calculated which would necessitate a handwritten ticket? The Handbook of Stations doesn't give any clues, but I presume there must have been a way to do so, at least in pre-British Rail days, manually. 

[mjkerr]

When I worked at InterCity we used to carry a "massive" Fares Manual

Ironically, most of the more common fares would be known from memory!

[Deonyi]

Were they point to point fares from each station to another? With the number of stations that would be around 2500! times variants.  

 

EDIT: So I looked fare manuals up. 471 volumes at the National Archives. How would fares have been calculated before computers came about then?

Edited July 15, 2017 by Deonyi

[johnb]

They were listed from individual fares.

 

So to go from A to D via B and C the booking clerk would look up A to B, B to C and C to D and add the lot up. Years ago, pre computers,  I once required an unusual  weekly season ticket, from my home station to Chatham. The clerk looked in his local book if one had been requested before which it hadn't been. So as I had gone to the station a day or so before (expecting a probable issue) when it was quiet he used the massive fares manual to see what home to Victoria would be, then Vic to Chatham and then took in what the long distance commuting discount would be (over 25 miles I think back then). It was a significant discount. A weekly from home to Vic was about £20 way back then and Vic to Chatham was about the same. I got a through weekly for about £30! He gave me the season grinning, told me the discount and added 'another one for the book!'

 

John

[Deonyi]

I had quite forgotten about 'via' stations. That makes sense. Thanks.

[JohnR]

Most fares were on a mileage basis, ie 1d/mile etc....

[Deonyi]

I assume that would be track distance though, not as the crow flies.

[eastglosmog]

I assume that would be track distance though, not as the crow flies.

I think that was normally the case, but I remember reading that where there were competing routes run by two different companies, there were instances where the fare by the longer route would be that by the shorter route of the competitor.  Obviously that ceased with nationalization. 

[TravisM]

I think that was normally the case, but I remember reading that where there were competing routes run by two different companies, there were instances where the fare by the longer route would be that by the shorter route of the competitor.  Obviously that ceased with nationalization. 

 

The pricing didn't always reflect distance.  When I worked at Westbury (as well as other stations) in the booking office, it was at times considerably cheaper to go to London via Salisbury and Waterloo as the Paddington route was deemed the "premier" route and reflected eye watering higher prices.  I believe this still applies to the east and west coast mainlines, the west being the "premier" one.

 

Julian Sprott

 

Julian Sprott

[eastglosmog]

The pricing didn't always reflect distance.  When I worked at Westbury (as well as other stations) in the booking office, it was at times considerably cheaper to go to London via Salisbury and Waterloo as the Paddington route was deemed the "premier" route and reflected eye watering higher prices.  I believe this still applies to the east and west coast mainlines, the west being the "premier" one.

 

Julian Sprott

 

Julian Sprott

Well, I did say normally the case, not always!  I have just been looking it up in the Oxford Companion to British Railway History, and until the late 1960s, fares were usually calculated on a  rate per mile. Apparently, in early years, (before 1865) rates could vary widely between different companies (0.4d /mile by North London and 2d/mile by Great Eastern, for example), with average rate 1.5d/mile. You could also be charged more per mile to travel by express train - at least on the Great Western.  By 1914, rates seem to have been reasonably consistent at slightly under 1d/mile. (Some railways were given special dispensation by Parliament to charge more than usual on specific lines that cost a lot to build, such as the Highland line via Carr Bridge.)

The change to fares based on market forces rather than a strict mileage basis apparently came in 1969 - off peak fares, railcards and the like (although commuter tickets and cheap excursions had been around long before).

Regarding calculating fares at stations, I can remember Durham Station in the mid 1970s having a large gizmo with numerous buttons which seemed to be able to calculate the fare between a lot of places.  It seemed to be able to cope with fares to a large number of obscure places around the country that I asked for tickets to over the years.

Edited July 17, 2017 by eastglosmog

[Gwiwer]

From the early days of railways fares and goods rates were calculated on a per-mile basis along the line of route.  Where alternative routes existed the price would normally be calculated according to the most likely route with different fares (cheaper or more expensive accordingly) applied to a less-likely route.  It could have been cheaper by a shorter route with a very infrequent service for example; Swansea to Aberystwyth might be an example when the "more likely" route would have been the longer one via Hereford compared with the shorter but seldom-served options via the Central Wales or Carmarthen routes.

 

Per-mile fares ceased to be required as I understand it when BR ceased to be a common carrier and fares have since been based upon commercial considerations and "what the market will bear".

 

Ironically perhaps the Westbury - London example is now often the other way around and while GWR is the main carrier either direct or via Bath the competing but less frequent SWT services often require a higher fare to be paid.  Not because the "Anytime" prices differ (though they do) but because GWR offers more and better discounts than SWT.

I still remain puzzled as to how some fares are calculated.  I was once offered an £18 Brighton - Penzance Advance Single fare when I requested the route "Via Clapham Junction".  This made use of exactly the same trains, and changing at the same stations, as the requests for "Avoid Westbury", "Avoid London", "Via East Croydon", "Via Andover" and "Via Woking" all of which required a fare of £85.  Hmmmmm.   

Edited July 18, 2017 by Gwiwer

[Ronnie MB]

Two recalled thoughts without the source material being to hand:

 

Weren't there situations where the Act of Parliament for a line made special provision for "notional" distances for charging purposes - I seem to remember a reference in Alan Jackson's London's Termini to the GER getting power to charge for more than the actual distance over the extension from Bishopsgate to Liverpool Streer.

 

I also remember a website (Rossrail ?) in which someone published their correspondence with ATOC about the absurdities of the Fares Manual. One of the gems I remember was the assertion that via London and not via London were not always mutually exclusive!

 

Can anyone enlarge on either or both of these?