When TT3 was the next Big Thing

[Golden Fleece 30]

I know there is a WR Autocoach available from 3SMR but going back to the old days was there a whitemetal metal one from GEM (who made the 14xx) or K's ever produced?

 

Garry

[Dava]

I don't recall an Autocoach being produced prior to 3SMR. I knew people who did ingenious conversions of Triang compo coaches into Collett autocoaches!

 

I'd also observe that, from having mis-spent too many hours in my youth adapting and servicing Triang TT gauge locos, that they were coniderably better designed and engineered than the 00 gauge models of the same manufacturer. These latter were pretty crude up to the late 1970s, eg when the 3nd generation 'Jinty' with plastic chassis and new wheels came out. The TT models had finer tolerances, smoother running and in the case of the Brush 2, DMU, Merchant Navy, some coaches and many wagons, finer execution.

 

The last of my collection is boxed up and ready to pass to its new owner tomorrow. I think I first got involved with TT around 1974 and it's been an interesting ride. As my current project is an 014 gypsum mine industrial narrow gauge project, you could say I've only moved up 2mm in gauge - close to 3mm fine scale!

 

Dava

[Golden Fleece 30]

I don't recall an Autocoach being produced prior to 3SMR. I knew people who did ingenious conversions of Triang compo coaches into Collett autocoaches!

 

I'd also observe that, from having mis-spent too many hours in my youth adapting and servicing Triang TT gauge locos, that they were coniderably better designed and engineered than the 00 gauge models of the same manufacturer. These latter were pretty crude up to the late 1970s, eg when the 3nd generation 'Jinty' with plastic chassis and new wheels came out. The TT models had finer tolerances, smoother running and in the case of the Brush 2, DMU, Merchant Navy, some coaches and many wagons, finer execution.

 

The last of my collection is boxed up and ready to pass to its new owner tomorrow. I think I first got involved with TT around 1974 and it's been an interesting ride. As my current project is an 014 gypsum mine industrial narrow gauge project, you could say I've only moved up 2mm in gauge - close to 3mm fine scale!

 

Dava

Thanks David, I did not think an Autocoach had been made but unsure as I stopped TT about the time you started.

 

I have to agree with your comments regarding the TT versus 00 especially the Type 2 and DMU.

 

Glad you found a new home for your collection.

 

Garry

[PatB]

A bit late I'm afraid, but my take on that Edward Beal quote on wheel standards is that he may have been referring to 00 wheels in general rather than Triang steamrollers in particular. That 00 Romfords have been used by some working in TT3 would tend to bear this out.

[Robert Shrives]

Hi ,

Regarding Execution I had a Triang TT layout based on two doors that graced the Sandy Collectors show and I was a solo runner and I left a Castle and 4 caoches trundling while I went a wandering  and the traders opposite were impressed it ran with out fault for over an hour - I had meant it to be 15 minutes..

 

On the layout I had OO models to show the fidelity compared and it often bought up good comments, I still have Hornby 31 to show with the layout but of course the mezac rot issue means one end is blown and the loco has to be shown end on !

 

On the auto coach front Brynkits has some drawings in hand for a Hawksworth -but has mainline versions to do first.

 

I am also glad the collection is finding a new home.

Robert  

[Golden Fleece 30]

Hi ,

Regarding Execution I had a Triang TT layout based on two doors that graced the Sandy Collectors show and I was a solo runner and I left a Castle and 4 caoches trundling while I went a wandering and the traders opposite were impressed it ran with out fault for over an hour - I had meant it to be 15 minutes..

 

On the layout I had OO models to show the fidelity compared and it often bought up good comments, I still have Hornby 31 to show with the layout but of course the mezac rot issue means one end is blown and the loco has to be shown end on !

 

On the auto coach front Brynkits has some drawings in hand for a Hawksworth -but has mainline versions to do first.

 

I am also glad the collection is finding a new home.

Robert

It is very rare for me to be a solo operator, this only happening when it is lunch time and my co-operator has his lunch, and vice versa. Because of this, and there are always at least two parts to my layouts like main line and goods yard, I am looking at installing a remote shuttle from one platform to fiddle yard so passenger trains can still run while shunting is going on during a lunch or call of nature break. Obviously this is a need due to an end to end layout. It does not surprise me that the Castle kept going.

 

Regarding the mazak rot we are fortunate that it has never seemed to affect TT, or Tri-ang 00, like it did with Hornby Dublo. It surprises me that this issue cropped up again in this day and age a few years ago with modern Hornby, and also Heljan with a batch of their 47's.

 

Going back to the Autocoach topic has anyone made up the 3smr model and if so are there any issues with it?

 

 

Garry

Edited August 20, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[Robert Shrives]

The only thing to say is that I asked 3SMR about one two months ago - something about a new improved 14xx chassis on the market!

To be told it was unavailable and had been for a while but you never know two calls might make for a customer led rush !

Brynkits told me of his Hawksworth plans might be next year . I guess we can say the auto coach has gone to works so two coaches hauled instead....

 

I will ask on 3mm yahoo group about the 3SMR auto - my mind in trying to say its a 4mm shot down which will always be a slight down but at least the basic work is done..

 

Robert  

[Golden Fleece 30]

The only thing to say is that I asked 3SMR about one two months ago - something about a new improved 14xx chassis on the market!

To be told it was unavailable and had been for a while but you never know two calls might make for a customer led rush !

Brynkits told me of his Hawksworth plans might be next year . I guess we can say the auto coach has gone to works so two coaches hauled instead....

 

I will ask on 3mm yahoo group about the 3SMR auto - my mind in trying to say its a 4mm shot down which will always be a slight down but at least the basic work is done..

 

Robert

Thanks Robert.

 

Garry

[Il Grifone]

It is very rare for me to be a solo operator, this only happening when it is lunch time and my co-operator has his lunch, and vice versa. Because of this, and there are always at least two parts to my layouts like main line and goods yard, I am looking at installing a remote shuttle from one platform to fiddle yard so passenger trains can still run while shunting is going on during a lunch or call of nature break. Obviously this is a need due to an end to end layout. It does not surprise me that the Castle kept going.

 

Regarding the mazak rot we are fortunate that it has never seemed to affect TT, or Tri-ang 00, like it did with Hornby Dublo. It surprises me that this issue cropped up again in this day and age a few years ago with modern Hornby, and also Heljan with a batch of their 47's.

 

Going back to the Autocoach topic has anyone made up the 3smr model and if so are there any issues with it?

 

 

Garry

 

Garry,

 

Mazac rot only affected pre-war Dublo items. By the time Tri-ang appeared on the market, the problem had been resolved. (Not that some makes weren't affected post war (Farish for example) but there were supply problems caused by the Korean war.)  IMHO there is no excuse today and items affected should be replaced/repaired by the manufacturer.

 

Perhaps it says something about modern models, if faultless running for an hour is remarkable.

 

David

Edited August 20, 2017 by Il Grifone

[rue_d_etropal]

For anyone interested, I do most of my 3D printed designs in TT3 as well. It nicely fits within the minimum thickness, so once I have something for HO, I upsize it to OO, then reduce it down to TT3. My main interest is currently railcars, steam rail motors and similar. I have done some GWR steam railmotors, and plan to do auto trailers .

[whart57]

For anyone interested, I do most of my 3D printed designs in TT3 as well. It nicely fits within the minimum thickness, so once I have something for HO, I upsize it to OO, then reduce it down to TT3. My main interest is currently railcars, steam rail motors and similar. I have done some GWR steam railmotors, and plan to do auto trailers .

 

Ever thought of doing things like aircon units or desktop computers in 1:100?

[Robert Shrives]

Hi slightly off topic if I may. IIRC the modern Hornby 31 took about 2 years to surface as a problem  and put down to a cheap mezac with unacceptable levels of impurities - 3rd party sourcing from a long chain in China, read into that what you want !!

 

I had a CJM 125 chassis in N running for 5 or so hours yesterday no problem. On another occasion a Farish 150 sprinter was set sail and left running and as it was so quiet it was forgotten about and was found running at 06.00 when I booked on.  I ran a Dapol voyager for two days at Warley on Templedean and 5 years on it was partnering the HST on the other "mainlnie" on Gould street at Ludlow show, from the first batch of 220s from Dapol so thats going on a decade - so its now about run in !

 

Back on topic I can confirm Dava collection very nice with some lovely peco chassis based wagons and  several 3F based locos and some enterprising Stanier style coaches made from Kitmaster SKs- who says fun is dead ! off to  play with them. I may be gone some time ...

Robert     

[Il Grifone]

I know there is a WR Autocoach available from 3SMR but going back to the old days was there a whitemetal metal one from GEM (who made the 14xx) or K's ever produced?

 

Garry

 Garry

 

I forgot to mention in my last post that AFAIK there was no whitemetal autocoach kit in TT. Seeing the weight of K's 00 version, it's probably just as well.

 

There were only a limited number of K's 00 kits produced in TT - the 97xx (a 57xx or 8750 would have been useful but EAMES provided one) and the prairie (not produced in 00 by K's) as 'bodyline' kits and some of the wagons. Off hand, I recall the LMS cattle truck and GWR milk tank (because I have these two), but not the others. I assume there must have been a van and an open wagon.

 

Peco did some of their 00 'Wonderful Wagons' in TT. I have an LNER 3 plank (incorrect as it has diagonal strapping). Perhaps I will letter it GW or WR as it's a bit tatty*. (There were two wagons with diagonal strapping for container traffic.)

 

* Many years in a box - I did find some Peco wheels for it. I'd pinched them for the cattle truck....

[Golden Fleece 30]

Here is the BEC Brush type 4 primed and base colour painted. 

 

I wish I was putting it together now as I found out that when the sides are fully around the 3 internal spacers they are slightly narrower than the roof.  Also even though I got them as flat as I could a gloss finish will not be on the cards as there are still some "ripples" where the internal ribs are located they would not press flat.  It seems also that the sides are very slightly bowed down at each end so I had to do a little bending of the roof.  Hopefully a screw will pull it down for a better fit.

 

People talk of the front not looking quite right and seeing this in paint I think I know what they mean, the front below the window should slope a little backwards to the buffer beam as opposed to "straight" down, correct chaps?

 

It will probably be a little while before much more is done due to an impending call from Gran Canaria beckoning us 

 

Well done Robert, it was a nice little collection from Dava and should keep you entertained for a while.

 

Garry

Edited August 20, 2017 by Golden Fleece 30

[Robert Shrives]

Peco chassis despite plastic wheels had pinpointed axles and are free running, treads attract crud but its down to cleaning off on a regular basis I guess.  At the time I expect Peco had no desire to launch a 12mm range - it had lay your own part that would help I recall but with GEM and Wrenn over track like a rash then Mr P had no need to spend hard earned cash.  But now ! Well if they can flaunt the cash to do a UK code 75BH trackage system then hopefully the HOm rails can be persuaded into a UK sized sleeper base and point work to 3mm intermediate standard to be Triang suitable. Fine would be better but disenfranchise many at a stroke.    

 

It was good today see Parkside, Triang ,Peco and other kits mounted on Peco chassis. It sadly shows how near but so far TT came.

 

Robert  

[Robert Shrives]

Lovely work , the front is subjective but I think windows are a little small depth wise and the nose curve is to pronounced below the windows not helped by the curvature of the handrail. The head code space is missing and on the model is just the hole for the glass panel - it works better if doing a modern flush front.. And yes the front has a backward rake -its only a few degrees but it makes a difference how the light falls on it.

 

But as I could not scratch build such a complex shap hats off to the tool makers!  I guess the narrowing is shrinkage in cooling of the spacers. Is it possible to change bogie mounting to a DMU style T shape slot this would allow a soldered or glued on roof which would remove the join. I made mine doubled motored one to move the cast body and one to pull the train and wired the bogies together to maximise pickups.

 

have a good hol and comeback tanned and refreshed !

Yes collection great items will have fun with them, a spare peco chassis will be a trail for a magnetic D&G and if works more will be converted

Robert        

[Dava]

I'm very pleased my TT collection is in good hands where it will be used. It also good to see expanding trade support for TT,I was looking at the Worsley Works website and amazed to see how many 'scratch building aids' they offer for those who can solder and locate the wheels/gears/motors etc. Maybe there will be a RTR loco again one day. So I'll admire from a distance.

 

Dava

[rue_d_etropal]

Ever thought of doing things like aircon units or desktop computers in 1:100?

I would expect the architectural suppliers to do items like those.

[Il Grifone]

Peco chassis despite plastic wheels had pinpointed axles and are free running, treads attract crud but its down to cleaning off on a regular basis I guess.  At the time I expect Peco had no desire to launch a 12mm range - it had lay your own part that would help I recall but with GEM and Wrenn over track like a rash then Mr P had no need to spend hard earned cash.  But now ! Well if they can flaunt the cash to do a UK code 75BH trackage system then hopefully the HOm rails can be persuaded into a UK sized sleeper base and point work to 3mm intermediate standard to be Triang suitable. Fine would be better but disenfranchise many at a stroke.    

 

It was good today see Parkside, Triang ,Peco and other kits mounted on Peco chassis. It sadly shows how near but so far TT came.

 

Robert  

 

 

Peco did their wagon kits and track parts in TT and even supplied Tri-ang wagon bodies on their underframe. They never got around to TT Sreamline track. Once they had launched their 00/H0 range, Tri-ang had lost enthusiasm for TT so I suppose it was not considered worthwhile.

[whart57]

The 3mm Society produced a trackbase using code 80 rail about twenty years ago and it is still on sale. About eight years ago they produced trackbases for 14.2mm gauge and 13.5mm gauge as well using code 65 BH rail. Straight track should not be an issue for anyone considering a 3mm/TT layout. Getting hold of enough Type A track pieces to reproduce the sort of layout pictured in adverts in the late 1950s might be trickier and, for those not into recreating nostalgia, points are also a choice of build it yourself or pay someone to do it for you. Sleeper bases, loose chairs and the all important gauges are available through the Society but the ironwork is more problematic

[Golden Fleece 30]

Peco did their wagon kits and track parts in TT and even supplied Tri-ang wagon bodies on their underframe. They never got around to TT Sreamline track. Once they had launched their 00/H0 range, Tri-ang had lost enthusiasm for TT so I suppose it was not considered worthwhile.

Peco make TT track now, since the 90's?, but it is aimed at the continental market. Old Jackson TT wheels along with Romfords go nicely through it but Tri-ang TT has an issue. Either the points need modification or all the wheels do. The plastic two part wheels can be pushed out with a washer between of which I have done a handful, but as I prefer metal wheels I am slowly changing mine. Why were split axle wheels ever made? All other manufacturers managed without.

 

Locos would need replacing (far too expensive for me) or pushing out on their axles, pushing out is not an option as it then causes issues on Tri-ang curves so I am modifying the points fitting new check rails opposite the frog not along side it. Plus, I still want my locos and stock to run on Tri-ang track as well as Peco.

 

I am not worried about the sleeper spacing or size, just like the trains to run smoothly. At this time of life, life itself is too short to start hand building track.

 

Garry

[Golden Fleece 30]

Lovely work , the front is subjective but I think windows are a little small depth wise and the nose curve is to pronounced below the windows not helped by the curvature of the handrail. The head code space is missing and on the model is just the hole for the glass panel - it works better if doing a modern flush front.. And yes the front has a backward rake -its only a few degrees but it makes a difference how the light falls on it.

 

But as I could not scratch build such a complex shap hats off to the tool makers!  I guess the narrowing is shrinkage in cooling of the spacers. Is it possible to change bogie mounting to a DMU style T shape slot this would allow a soldered or glued on roof which would remove the join. I made mine doubled motored one to move the cast body and one to pull the train and wired the bogies together to maximise pickups.

 

have a good hol and comeback tanned and refreshed !

Yes collection great items will have fun with them, a spare peco chassis will be a trail for a magnetic D&G and if works more will be converted

Robert        

Robert,  nice idea about the T fitting for the bogies and it is something I can start to think about while I am beside the pool, I cannot just go away and forget about railways lol.

 

Garry

[The Dorset Wanderer]

Peco make Hom -3 meter gauge track- not true tt track thus the check rails and frogs conform to those standards.

[Il Grifone]

Peco make TT track now, since the 90's?, but it is aimed at the continental market. Old Jackson TT wheels along with Romfords go nicely through it but Tri-ang TT has an issue. Either the points need modification or all the wheels do. The plastic two part wheels can be pushed out with a washer between of which I have done a handful, but as I prefer metal wheels I am slowly changing mine. Why were split axle wheels ever made? All other manufacturers managed without.

 

Locos would need replacing (far too expensive for me) or pushing out on their axles, pushing out is not an option as it then causes issues on Tri-ang curves so I am modifying the points fitting new check rails opposite the frog not along side it. Plus, I still want my locos and stock to run on Tri-ang track as well as Peco.

 

I am not worried about the sleeper spacing or size, just like the trains to run smoothly. At this time of life, life itself is too short to start hand building track.

 

Garry

 

Garry

 

The split wheels go back to Rovex days and enable wheels to be fitted to a solid alloy frame at the expense of open axleboxes. Trackmaster wagons split the frame in the centre allowing solid axles but Tri-ang soon changed this to a solid frame with open axleboxes. For TT they just copied the 00 idea. possibly there was some thought about reducing friction on the esharp curves by allowing the wheels to revolve at different speeds. (I don't think it works though.)

The back to back problem is interesting as i find the same thing is necessary to make Rivarossi wheels run on Dublo track (they are also split like Tri-ang but are both a push fit on the axle). A washer between the two halves solves the problem. (Dropping into the enormous gap between blade and stock rail.)

 

I would agree about track building - Streamline code 100 will do for my H0 U. S. stock (and I'll spread the sleepers a bit if I ever do anything for my Danish stock). 00 will have to make do with Formoway* and the EM layout was to use SMP with home built pointwork (one day, maybe....)

 

* I acquired two more 3' radius points on Saturday at £1 a throw. One lacks a tiebar, but replacement of these flimsy objects is a matter of course anyway.

 

David

[Golden Fleece 30]

Thanks David although the question "Why were split axle wheels ever made?" was actually a rhetorical one and meant as a statement as such.

 

I did have a couple of the split wagon chassis's though and thought I maybe able to modify them but they just snapped when trying to separate the two halves.

 

You certainly have a lot of variation track wise for your layouts. Mine is all standard Peco whether 0, 00, 3-rail, TT and N gauge. It must be 40 years since I last had a go at track making and it was a pain then which is why I went for off the shelf.

 

Garry