TTS steam decoders

[MikeParkin65]

But before TTS, many saw Loksound & Zimo options as too expensive.

Now we have a choice.

My point being that the steam TTS works very badly indeed. I appreciate we are all playing trains but steam TTS isnt worthy of the models it is being put in to.

 

The exhaust beats of a steam loco are mechanically linked to its movement. Single beat per revolution locos look as ridiculous as would coupling the tender to the front of the chimney.

 

It's different for TTS diesel where the movement-sound relationship doesn't need to be linear. So whilst TTS diesels can run and not look or sound out of place with ESU or Zimo equipped loco's the same cannot be said for TTS steam.

 

I appreciate the differential in price but for steam at least I dont think TTS should be considered as a cheaper option since  it isnt really an option at all -  it has scant relevance to the prototype.

[DonnyRailMan]

At the time when they first did TTS, they did say that they were going to continue with full fat ESU sound. But it seems to have quietly disappeared probably due to cost. It no longer adds £100 but more like £120 or £130 to the price tag and I guess few will buy a cir £300 sound fitted model and those who do will often have their own preferred DCC sound supplier.

What I ment was did Hornby make their DCC Sound decoders available to sell over the counter the same way as the other brand DCC like Locksound & Zimo.

[Chrisr40]

I think ultimately if you don't like them then please don't buy them as you will be disappointed. Spend your pennies on zimo esu and get greater fidelity to prototype but please don't complain about them so vociferously to Hornby that people such as myself who are more than happy to overlook some facets of their performance and have to be careful with the cash lose them as an option.

I have 4 tts sound locos and enjoy every second of playing with them...whoops sorry - operating them.

Best regards Chris

Edited August 23, 2018 by Chrisr40

[JSpencer]

What I ment was did Hornby make their DCC Sound decoders available to sell over the counter the same way as the other brand DCC like Locksound & Zimo.

Prior to TTS, Hornby used locksound decoders. They never sold the chips separately with their sound files.

 

Looked at the CVs on TTS tonight, 200 plus are not used unlike Diesel TTS, so there is space to apply some program to dictate when the 18 notches trigger.

 

There are other CVs 67 to 94 splitting 256 speed steps into 28 sections. Lower ones are like 1,2,3 etc then gradually space out such as 10, 14, 20 getting bigger until you 210, 230, 256. Whether or not the 18 notches are tied in with the 28 steps, I,ve no idea.

[DonnyRailMan]

Prior to TTS, Hornby used locksound decoders. They never sold the chips separately with their sound files.

Looked at the CVs on TTS tonight, 200 plus are not used unlike Diesel TTS, so there is space to apply some program to dictate when the 18 notches trigger.

There are other CVs 67 to 94 splitting 256 speed steps into 28 sections. Lower ones are like 1,2,3 etc then gradually space out such as 10, 14, 20 getting bigger until you 210, 230, 256. Whether or not the 18 notches are tied in with the 28 steps, I,ve no idea.

Thank you for information ,I always thought their DCC Sound decoder

was developed in house by Honrby.

[Merlin242]

Does any kind soul out there, have video footage of the Hornby S15 with the new TTS chip fitted ?

Additionally, how difficult is retro fitting on the high sided Maunsell tender ?

I'm torn between buying one of these and waiting for the factory fitted option due next year.

 

There is a video on here of a TTS S15 chip fitted in a Bachmann crab if that's any use. https://www.facebook.com/Hincaster.Junction.a.00.gauge.Model.Railway/

Not sure how to load it up on here

[RAF96]

Thank you for information ,I always thought their DCC Sound decoder

was developed in house by Honrby.

If you go on the ESU website looking for UK sound files, they state that some files are not available for download as they are proprietary to the manufacturer that commissioned them, so its not clear if ESU built them for Hornby or if Hornby built them in house and ESU just programmed the decoders for supply to Hornby.

 

One of lifes mysteries I suppose.

Rob

[RAF96]

Prior to TTS, Hornby used locksound decoders. They never sold the chips separately with their sound files.

Looked at the CVs on TTS tonight, 200 plus are not used unlike Diesel TTS, so there is space to apply some program to dictate when the 18 notches trigger.

There are other CVs 67 to 94 splitting 256 speed steps into 28 sections. Lower ones are like 1,2,3 etc then gradually space out such as 10, 14, 20 getting bigger until you 210, 230, 256. Whether or not the 18 notches are tied in with the 28 steps, I,ve no idea.

 

The TTS decoders are produced by a process known as WORM - write once, read many. Regardless of if a CV is used or not an end user cannot access these greyed out CVs to further utilise them or make changes. The steam decoders are built to one basic template and the diesels built to a different basic template.

 

Maybe if you could back engineer a TTS decoder you would see where the locks are and where the spare memory (if any) is. That task is beyond me, although I have programmed various PIC chips.

 

Rob

[DonnyRailMan]

If you go on the ESU website looking for UK sound files, they state that some files are not available for download as they are proprietary to the manufacturer that commissioned them, so its not clear if ESU built them for Hornby or if Hornby built them in house and ESU just programmed the decoders for supply to Hornby.

One of lifes mysteries I suppose.

Rob

Cheers for information.

[JSpencer]

Ok the Hornby Original Merchant Navy decoder is now out. I already have Holland Africa Line pre-fitted with this decoder from last years releases, however I brought this new chip to go inside an original West Country : Bude the Dude engine!

 

 

 

I have to say that if you follow Hornby's instructions to removing the tender body, well you'll be struggling as that does not work very well.

 

Here are mine:

1/ Remove tender from loco (1 screw, 1 devils plug).

2/ there are two screws seated in deep holes just behind each buffer and next to the rear pair of wheels. Undo those completely and remove them (Hornby instructions say the same here).

3/ Here Hornby's instructions say, pull the chassis back, pull the front chassis down then pull forwards. You have no hope at all in achieving this - not without writing the tender off - because there are two cylinder shapes a1/4inch round in the chassis slotting into two cylinder shapes of the tender body, which also held the two screws you just removed. They don't flex! Here is what the two halves look like inside. Know your enemy!

 

 

 

What you should do, is locate two clips on the tender front that clip into holes on the chassis floor. These face forwards, located just in front of the front pair of wheels and are about 4mm across. I eased each one back until the tender front was released like this.

 

 

Now for the rear, remove the coupling, you will find a small slot. Put a small screw driver in it and waggle it and the tender chassis side to side. The releases the cylinders inside and off the body comes.

 

 

Once inside, unscrew the 8 pin plug holder, then unscrew the weight (4 screws). At this point I lost a wire because the current wiring arrangements consist of running wires under the weight, then up through the hole where the speaker will eventually sit and onto the 8-pin plug holder. Thread the 8-pin holder throw the speaker hole, you will need to rework the wires to pass round the front of weight instead. This is fiddly, have a soldering ion ready in case any wires come loose.

The wires are short to you won't be able to screw the 8-pin holer back on its original position once the speaker is fitted. And there is no space around the speaker to pass wire back through the speaker hole either.

 

 

 

 

Sell the edge of the speaker with blue tac - this is for better sound.

 

 

Screw the weight back on and organise the wires chip etc. I place some cellotape over the top of the weight to prevent shorts and held everything into place with cellotape else where. Klacton tape would be better but I had none to hand.

I placed the sound chip itself towards the rear and then the 8 pin plug holder as far back as the wires will allow. The front of the weight meets the front of the self trimming coal shoot of the tender body, so you need the 8 pin holder to be above the speaker to avoid foaling. The wires are thin enough to step over the front of the weight without foaling the shoot.

 

 

All back together:

 

 

Next steps: sound programming.

 

 

[RAF96]

Hornby Magazine did a special last month called Express Steam Vol 1, where they show you how to fit plain DCC and then sound to a variety of locos including MN. From memory of doing mine I broke some of the fragile bits off as they are connected to both tender body and chassis, hence need unclipping before the body will release.

 

 

Criticism...

... I think the Magazine took the easy route as most of the locos used were sound ready, thus easily converted even with your wooly gloves on.

 

Rob

[JSpencer]

Hornby Magazine did a special last month called Express Steam Vol 1, where they show you how to fit plain DCC and then sound to a variety of locos including MN. From memory of doing mine I broke some of the fragile bits off as they are connected to both tender body and chassis, hence need unclipping before the body will release.

 

 

Criticism...

... I think the Magazine took the easy route as most of the locos used were sound ready, thus easily converted even with your wooly gloves on.

 

Rob

 

I reviewed all my - what I consider - modern DCC ready locos. I was surprised to find that very few were sound ready even when they had the modern 4 pin devils plug and chip holder in the tender.

 

Conversion for most would be similar to what I did for the A1 and 9F above with 8 pin chips in the loco needing wires to the tender for a speaker (or you switch to hard wiring and sugar cube in the loco itself). These with 8 plugs but no sound space, would need them removed and holes drilled somewhere into the tender (coal space or underneath).

[cravensdmufan]

I think ultimately if you don't like them then please don't buy them as you will be disappointed. Spend your pennies on zimo esu and get greater fidelity to prototype but please don't complain about them so vociferously to Hornby that people such as myself who are more than happy to overlook some facets of their performance and have to be careful with the cash lose them as an option.

I have 4 tts sound locos and enjoy every second of playing with them...whoops sorry - operating them.

Best regards Chris

Just hit the agree button - and yes, I agree with every single word of your post.

 

I get fed up with hearing people complaining about TTS. Lacking in this or that, doesn't sound as good as a Legoman etc etc. Yes, we know that! They are in my local model shop for just £35 for goodness sake!

 

I have a good few Legoman, Digitrain and Coastal diesel chips - plus an additional 16 TTS chips in locos that I couldn't have possible afforded otherwise.

 

Thank you Hornby - more loco classes please when you're ready!

Edited October 2, 2018 by cravensdmufan

[JSpencer]

Ok, programmed BUDE onto the DCC system of my computer.

 

The functions are exactly the same as Holland Africa Line from last year. BUDE won't run on plain DC anymore unlike older TTS chips. Interestingly, when reading the characteristics of the chip, it is a 15 generation type TTS! The blue tac was a success making the loco sound sharper than Holland Africa line.

 

The sounds are great - but would still love the possibility on steam TTS to be able to set at which speed steps the steam sound notches up that exists already on diesel TTS. There is plenty of free memory on board these chips to do that.

That is just my user feedback and perfectly feasible recommendation on what I otherwise think is great low cost solution into DCC sound. No need for anyone to interpret that as complaining in an extreme sense of the word. Surely we can make reasonable suggestions without being shouted at from the roof tops.

[paftrain]

Ok, programmed BUDE onto the DCC system of my computer.

 

The functions are exactly the same as Holland Africa Line from last year. BUDE won't run on plain DC anymore unlike older TTS chips.

 

 

I noticed that, too, but that is because they have set the value of CV 29 to 2. I always reset mine to a value of 38, which enables running on DC (no Sound),all speed steps and 4 digit addressing.

[NXEA!]

I'm tempted to dabble with TTS sound for the forthcoming B12 chip. Does anyone know whether this is likely to be generic, or recorded from the real thing?  

 

I've watched some videos of TTS steam on Youtube, the revolutions/chuff relationship does look a bit strange, but the sound is decent quality and at £35 it is significantly cheaper. Alternatively, Coastal do a B12 - I already have their J15 sound, which is superb. I can't decide between the two options at the moment! I see that the S15 revolution/chuff is allegedly a lot better, has this improvement been carried forward in their more recent releases?

Edited March 9, 2019 by NXEA!

[RAF96]

13 hours ago, NXEA! said:

I'm tempted to dabble with TTS sound for the forthcoming B12 chip. Does anyone know whether this is likely to be generic, or recorded from the real thing?  

 

I've watched some videos of TTS steam on Youtube, the revolutions/chuff relationship does look a bit strange, but the sound is decent quality and at £35 it is significantly cheaper. Alternatively, Coastal do a B12 - I already have their J15 sound, which is superb. I can't decide between the two options at the moment! I see that the S15 revolution/chuff is allegedly a lot better, has this improvement been carried forward in their more recent releases?

 

All TTS sounds are recorded from the real thing if one currently exists or are library recordings for where there is no running example. I am assured by Hornby that no TTS sounds are synthetic, i.e. electronically generated.

 

The only TTS I have with an exact matching chuff is an early Tornado test decoder installed in a GWR 0-6-0 pannier tank. Obviously the smaller wheels are just right for the Tornado chuff rate at those road speeds where I could reasonably expect to be able to see a mismatch or not. Faster than dead slow and my eyes cannot keep count.

[cravensdmufan]

13 hours ago, NXEA! said:

I'm tempted to dabble with TTS sound for the forthcoming B12 chip. Does anyone know whether this is likely to be generic, or recorded from the real thing?  

 

I've watched some videos of TTS steam on Youtube, the revolutions/chuff relationship does look a bit strange, but the sound is decent quality and at £35 it is significantly cheaper. Alternatively, Coastal do a B12 - I already have their J15 sound, which is superb. I can't decide between the two options at the moment! I see that the S15 revolution/chuff is allegedly a lot better, has this improvement been carried forward in their more recent releases?

Worth giving the TTS a try IMO.  you may be pleasantly surprised.

 

And if you don't like why not eBay it off - you'd probably get £25 - £30 if it's boxed and you haven't cut the speaker off..

[NXEA!]

1 hour ago, cravensdmufan said:

Worth giving the TTS a try IMO.  you may be pleasantly surprised.

 

And if you don't like why not eBay it off - you'd probably get £25 - £30 if it's boxed and you haven't cut the speaker off..

That latter point has swayed it for me, as I won't be butchering the speaker. Looks like I'll be giving TTS a try then! Can always save up for the Coastal chip if it isn't to my liking. 

[cravensdmufan]

1 hour ago, NXEA! said:

That latter point has swayed it for me, as I won't be butchering the speaker. Looks like I'll be giving TTS a try then! Can always save up for the Coastal chip if it isn't to my liking. 

Exactly.

 

With my TTS fits (admittedly all diesels) I always give them a good test first and get the relevent CVs tuned to get smooth operating in each individual loco before chopping the supplied speaker off and upgrading it.  It's amazing the improvement in sound.  I like to fit two 8ohm speakers (in series to give 16ohms) to reduce the volume, which I found too loud on all my TTS.

 

Let us know how you get on with it.