chaz Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 I am about to put sound into a steam loco (an AMS US NG C-16) and will be using a Econami and a sugar cube speaker in the tender. Can someone tell me please - does the sugar cube need any special arrangements or is it simply a matter of fixing it down? All the DCC will be in the tender - which already has an 8 pin socket and sound holes. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Just solder the leads and stick somewhere convenient. If you could squeeze it into the loco, that would be even better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 Just solder the leads and stick somewhere convenient. If you could squeeze it into the loco, that would be even better. Thanks for that. I would prefer to put the speaker in the loco but I think the only place where there is a space large enough is in the cab - so probably not a good idea! Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 I am about to put sound into a steam loco (an AMS US NG C-16) and will be using a Econami and a sugar cube speaker in the tender. Can someone tell me please - does the sugar cube need any special arrangements or is it simply a matter of fixing it down? All the DCC will be in the tender - which already has an 8 pin socket and sound holes. Chaz The sugar cube speaker is an excellent piece of kit and all that is required is to solder the two brown wires from the decoder to the speaker, mount the supplied sound chamber to the rear of the speaker and then mount the sugar cube with a suitable mastic using the sound chamber only. Hopefully the speaker will,once mounted, point at the holes you have mentioned but it is possible that pointing another way might increase the bass response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Vecchio Posted September 8, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 8, 2017 small comment: the leads in a sugar cube speaker do normally not need to be soldered as there is a (very small) spring clamp present. regards Vecchio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gooderz Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 small comment: the leads in a sugar cube speaker do normally not need to be soldered as there is a (very small) spring clamp present. regards Vecchio very true but to ensure a solid, robust connection, i'd always recommend soldering Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 The sugar cube speaker is an excellent piece of kit and all that is required is to solder the two brown wires from the decoder to the speaker, mount the supplied sound chamber to the rear of the speaker and then mount the sugar cube with a suitable mastic using the sound chamber only. Hopefully the speaker will,once mounted, point at the holes you have mentioned but it is possible that pointing another way might increase the bass response. No sound chamber was supplied, unless it is the plastic surround to the speaker. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 No sound chamber was supplied, unless it is the plastic surround to the speaker. Post a photograph please, so we can see what you've got. Oooo! Matron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJGraphics Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) very true but to ensure a solid, robust connection, i'd always recommend soldering Yes, always solder. If a wire comes loose it could short on something and blow (at least) the amplifier side of the decoder. John Edited September 8, 2017 by JJGraphics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 8, 2017 Author Share Posted September 8, 2017 Post a photograph please, so we can see what you've got. Oooo! Matron. Here is a snap.... HTH Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 (edited) Here is a snap.... P1070570-1.jpg HTH Chaz Yes that looks good. If the speaker is a loose fit in the sound chamber it will be essential to seal the speaker into the sound chamber . I am a fan of BluTac but I understand that there is a black mastic which is stronger. The object of the exercise is to make sure that the rear of the speaker is completely separate, even airtight from the front of the speaker. Not paying attention to this will destroy your best efforts in having good sound in the loco. It is tempting to leave the sound chamber off or not seal it properly in the desire to get the job done or fit in a small space. Resist this urge. You are now at the stage of deciding on a decoder and either writing a sound project yourself or buying one commercially. Edited September 8, 2017 by Lady_Ava_Hay added last paragraph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiggy1 Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 Here is a snap.... P1070570-1.jpg HTH Chaz Best if you run a beed of PVA glue all around the side seam where the speaker joins the sound box just to make it air tight for best results. Wiggy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBAGE Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 It looks like the sound chamber is already fixed to the speaker. If so, it's ready to install. If not, I would use super glue to fix it in place. Make sure you don't get any on the speaker. If the speaker still doesn't fit or if you find somewhere in the loco but the speaker is too big, you can buy smaller chambers. I use tacky black to stick the speaker in place but I suppose you could use almost anything. Double sided sticky pads are OK. Never consider fitting without the sound box. The sound from one side of the speaker will be cancelled out by the sound from the other side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 Yes that looks good. If the speaker is a loose fit in the sound chamber it will be essential to seal the speaker into the sound chamber . I am a fan of BluTac but I understand that there is a black mastic which is stronger. The object of the exercise is to make sure that the rear of the speaker is completely separate, even airtight from the front of the speaker. Not paying attention to this will destroy your best efforts in having good sound in the loco. It is tempting to leave the sound chamber off or not seal it properly in the desire to get the job done or fit in a small space. Resist this urge. You are now at the stage of deciding on a decoder and either writing a sound project yourself or buying one commercially. Thanks for that. The speaker is firmly stowed in this plastic box and shows no signs of coming loose. I have a Soundtraxx Econami decoder and current keeper ready to go in, with a US sound project which includes 12 different whistles, and three different "weights" of chuff - both of which can be chosen by setting a CV. Unfortunately the decoder did not have an 8 pin plug so I have modified the blanking plug by removing the wire connections and have soldered the decoder leads to that. I should have it all working very soon. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 10, 2017 Author Share Posted September 10, 2017 Just a final word on the sugar cube. This afternoon I have had the loco on a programming track and have set the loco address into CV1. As this wrote in successfully I judged it safe to test the sound by using the "driver's cab" test routine in the ESU software that works with the ESU programmer interface. The sound is astonishingly good from such a tiny speaker and I will be using the Econami/sugar cube combination in all the other locos I have to fit with DCC sound. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigal10 Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Chaz, I'll bet next month's pension that you don't stick to sugar cubes for very long. Nothing wrong with them, in the right place, - thanks to PaulieBanger for suggesting 2 in my Heljan Class 17 Clayton, one in each nose! There is an ever increasing range and variety of speakers coming onto the market, just look on these pages for comments on Charlie Petty's amazing EarthMoovers, or better yet, go to an exhibition or Model Rail show, and listen to a selection 'in the flesh' Zimo's Dumbo range are a next-generation development of sugar cubes, using the same electrostatic drivers (early mobile phone speakers) but combined with 3D printed enclosures / sound chambers. Alan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted October 4, 2017 Share Posted October 4, 2017 Chaz, I'll bet next month's pension that you don't stick to sugar cubes for very long. Nothing wrong with them, in the right place, - thanks to PaulieBanger for suggesting 2 in my Heljan Class 17 Clayton, one in each nose! There is an ever increasing range and variety of speakers coming onto the market, just look on these pages for comments on Charlie Petty's amazing EarthMoovers, or better yet, go to an exhibition or Model Rail show, and listen to a selection 'in the flesh' Zimo's Dumbo range are a next-generation development of sugar cubes, using the same electrostatic drivers (early mobile phone speakers) but combined with 3D printed enclosures / sound chambers. Alan. Those 3D Dumbo's are really impressive for their size - the SLW 24 uses them to great effect. But for bottom end rumble/growl an EM (earthmover) every time..................... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroomy Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Those 3D Dumbo's are really impressive for their size - the SLW 24 uses them to great effect. But for bottom end rumble/growl an EM (earthmover) every time..................... Are they already fitted ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Are they already fitted ? Yes the SLW 24 has 2 x Zimo Dumbo type speakers fitted in custom designed enclosures on sound fitted models. The 3D printed enclosure versions, are available in a number of different sizes, both single and twin, photo below shows a twin version fitted to one of my Class 26's with Zimo ActiveDrive sound file. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lowlander Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 Hi Ken Did you have to do away with the Heljan circuit board in order to fit in the sugar cubes? Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Hi Ken Did you have to do away with the Heljan circuit board in order to fit in the sugar cubes? Stephen Hi Stephen The model is best stripped down to the bare metal chassis, to avoid getting any filings/swarf etc in the motor/drive mechanism. The fitted 3D Twin Zimo Dumbo, requires chassis metal removed to get it to fit, it's a tight squeeze. The original circuit board is replaced with a piece of vero board, and the decoder is then hard-wired. I also took the opportunity to update all the lighting with LED's. It's one way of getting good sound on an air braked 26 with under frame tanks. HTH Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted October 8, 2017 Share Posted October 8, 2017 Hi Stephen The model is best stripped down to the bare metal chassis, to avoid getting any filings/swarf etc in the motor/drive mechanism. The fitted 3D Twin Zimo Dumbo, requires chassis metal removed to get it to fit, it's a tight squeeze. The original circuit board is replaced with a piece of vero board, and the decoder is then hard-wired. I also took the opportunity to update all the lighting with LED's. It's one way of getting good sound on an air braked 26 with under frame tanks. HTH Ken It a bit easier putting speakers in the fuel tank. Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted October 9, 2017 Share Posted October 9, 2017 It a bit easier putting speakers in the fuel tank. Charlie I'd agree, provided the model has the early style full under frame tanks - a 40 x 28 ABC speaker being ideal, the above model being a later R/F 26 with air tanks chassis. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 Crikey! Am I glad that there's plenty of room in the tender of an On30 steam loco - although I would prefer putting the speaker in the loco rather than the tender this is not really on with the Bachmann models. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ROSSPOP Posted October 11, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2017 Could`nt fit my preferred choice of base reflex speakers in my latest 7mm loco kit build, so having been impressed with zimo sugarcubes in my 4mm stock, I chose a larger version produced by Youchoos. I only had space in the firebox and probably could have fitted two of these but I also had to find space for a stayalive capacitor. Unlike Zimo`s I had to solder the wires to the speaker. I`m pleased with the result......... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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