SPROG with a MAC or an iPAD?

[chaz]

My Windows 7 laptop is not long for this world. I have moved over to a Mac and also have an iPad mini. In the past I have programmed decoders using ESU's programmer but the ESU software doesn't come as a Mac version (does it?).

 

I have downloaded the SPROG II user guide where there are references to the MacOS but after the Windows installation it just has....

 

Driver Installation for MacOS

TBD 

 

I'm assuming that TBD is "To Be Done".

 

Do you have experience of using a SPROG with a Mac or an iPad? Any help would be gratefully received.

 

Chaz

[Nick G]

Don't know the answer but you can always run Windows on a Mac using Bootcamp or a Virtual Machine. I run Windows 7 & Windows 10 on mine handy for programmes that don't run on a Mac.

[Bilbo]

I use it on an iMac and Macbook pro and its fine. It's worth joining the JMRI user group on Yahoo. Crosland on here is the Sprog expert as I think he is the supplier so you can pick his brains and he is extremely helpful.

[Nick G]

Bit about installing on a Mac here  

 

http://www.bbmgroup.com/sprog/faq.html

[Izzy]

I have run a sprog II v2.7 on a Macbook pro with Mavericks since 2014 without any problems.

 

Izzy

[ColinK]

I too have a Sprog and a Mac, not yet had the time and confidence to try it.

[chaz]

Don't know the answer but you can always run Windows on a Mac using Bootcamp or a Virtual Machine. I run Windows 7 & Windows 10 on mine handy for programmes that don't run on a Mac.

 

 

I presume that means that I can continue to use the ESU software with their programmer with no risk to my Mac? Should that be so the only thing I am retaining the Windows laptop for will be gone and it can go in a skip. Are there any downsides to running Windows 7 on a Mac?

 

I have run a sprog II v2.7 on a Macbook pro with Mavericks since 2014 without any problems.

 

Izzy

 

Bit about installing on a Mac here  

 

http://www.bbmgroup.com/sprog/faq.html

 

Three very useful responses. Thanks guys! The link, Nick G, is very useful and I will study it in detail before I do anything further.

 

Chaz

[geoff]

I presume that means that I can continue to use the ESU software with their programmer with no risk to my Mac? Should that be so the only thing I am retaining the Windows laptop for will be gone and it can go in a skip. Are there any downsides to running Windows 7 on a Mac?

 

 

 

Three very useful responses. Thanks guys! The link, Nick G, is very useful and I will study it in detail before I do anything further.

 

Chaz

 

Chaz, for many years I used a Lokprogrammer on a MacBook pro with Parallels to give the Windows environment. In fact it worked more seamlessly than on a windows machine. I eventually bought a refurbished windows laptop for my railway because I have an old windows based programme I use for train scheduling and the cost of updating Parallels to allow me to update my MacBook was prohibitive, far more than the windows laptop.

Further comment about your iPad mini; should you wish to use the jmri free software for programming you will not be able to use your iPad as they do not run Java which is necessary for the jmri software to operate.

 

Geoff

[Izzy]

You don't have to run Windows on a Mac to use many windows only based software. I run quite a lot via the (free) winebottler, Templot, Anyrail etc, and it all seems to work okay.

 

Izzy

[chaz]

Chaz, for many years I used a Lokprogrammer on a MacBook pro with Parallels to give the Windows environment. In fact it worked more seamlessly than on a windows machine. I eventually bought a refurbished windows laptop for my railway because I have an old windows based programme I use for train scheduling and the cost of updating Parallels to allow me to update my MacBook was prohibitive, far more than the windows laptop.

Further comment about your iPad mini; should you wish to use the jmri free software for programming you will not be able to use your iPad as they do not run Java which is necessary for the jmri software to operate.

 

Geoff

 

 

Thanks for that, particularly the info' about the iPad, saves me some fruitless effort trying. My Mac doesn't have parallels but it does have Boot Camp but this needs the disc to have a partition which I'm not sure I want to do that.

 

Chaz

You don't have to run Windows on a Mac to use many windows only based software. I run quite a lot via the (free) winebottler, Templot, Anyrail etc, and it all seems to work okay.

 

Izzy

 

Thanks - tell me more about Winebottler.

 

Chaz

[ejstubbs]

I'm not a SPROG user but I run AnyRail and a number of fairly hairy tweaking-Android-under-the-hood applications (including the full Android SDK, fastboot flashing tools and the like) under Windows running under Oracle's free Virtualbox virtualisatin environment.  I have XP, Win7 and Win10 virtual machines (VMs).

 

I realise that virtualisation isn't for everyone but I find it phenomenally convenient.  It does help to have a fairly powerful host Mac, since the 'guest' VM will need to consume some 'host' hardware resources - primarily CPU cycles.  My 8-core iMac barely notices Win10 running in a 2-CPU VM.  Virtualisation has the big advantage over Bootcamp that you don't need to reboot to switch from MacOS to Windows.  In theory Wine has the same advantage; I did look at Wine once long ago but it was another learning curve for me, when I was already quite happily running VMs.

 

If you are contemplating going this route then do not just dump the Windows machine in the skip!  You need to run VMWare's free "physical to virtual" conversion tool on the Windows machine to create a virtual clone of the physical Windows machine.  You can then move that cloned Windows virtual machine (it's just a file, but quite a big one) to your Mac, and then tell Virtualbox to create a VM from it (Virtualbox can read VMWare VMs no problem).  Doing this you end up with a fully licensed copy of Windows running in your VM.  Forget to do it and you'll have to buy another licensed copy of Windows, which is always best avoided, and build your virtual Windows machine from ground zero (on a 'bare' VM), which is time-consuming and boring.

[Crosland]

I have downloaded the SPROG II user guide where there are references to the MacOS but after the Windows installation it just has....

 

Driver Installation for MacOS[/size]

Yeah, sorry about that.

 

The truth is that, like Linux, MacOS has always had suitable drivers for a SPROG of any vintage. You just need to identify the USB serial port that is created when you connect it and power it. On MacOS i think it will be a tty_ACMx.

 

Andrew

[martin_wynne]

Thanks - tell me more about Winebottler.

 

Hi Chaz,

 

See: http://templot.com/companion/for_you.html

 

2nd Q. down.

 

Martin.

[chaz]

Yeah, sorry about that.

 

The truth is that, like Linux, MacOS has always had suitable drivers for a SPROG of any vintage. You just need to identify the USB serial port that is created when you connect it and power it. On MacOS i think it will be a tty_ACMx.

 

Andrew

 

 

So if I connect a SPROG to a USB port on the Mac it will all happen automatically - yes? Will the same thing apply if I connect my ESU programmer I wonder? Obviously for either I will need to download the software, either JMRI for the SPROG or the ESU stuff. There is no risk to the Mac from plugging either of these devices into its USB sockets - is there?

[chaz]

Hi Chaz,

 

See: http://templot.com/companion/for_you.html

 

2nd Q. down.

 

Martin.

 

Just had a look at that Martin. Looks a useful link, Thanks.

 

Chaz

[Nigelcliffe]

So if I connect a SPROG to a USB port on the Mac it will all happen automatically - yes? Will the same thing apply if I connect my ESU programmer I wonder? Obviously for either I will need to download the software, either JMRI for the SPROG or the ESU stuff. There is no risk to the Mac from plugging either of these devices into its USB sockets - is there?

 

No physical harm to the Mac from the USB devices.  

 

 

The software may be an issue for the ESU Programmer, because its Windows (hence the stuff about Parallels, BootCamp, Wine, etc in the thread).  

 

The JMRI software for the Sprog is fine on the Mac. There are native MacOS and a native Windows versions, just download the appropriate one for your operating system.  Half the JMRI development team do their development work on Macs.

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Crosland]

So if I connect a SPROG to a USB port on the Mac it will all happen automatically - yes? Will the same thing apply if I connect my ESU programmer I wonder? Obviously for either I will need to download the software, either JMRI for the SPROG or the ESU stuff. There is no risk to the Mac from plugging either of these devices into its USB sockets - is there?

 

I told a small porkie earlier. Older SPROG II will require FTDI drivers. The bbmgroup link earlier in the thread is worth reviewing.

 

Newer SPROG 3 and IIv3/4 present themselves as a simple USB serial ports and should just work.

 

For the ESU, driver requirements will depends on what the ESU USB interface declares itself as. I'm sorry I can't help more than that.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Crosland

[tender]

With my Sprog 3 it just installed on my Mac without any dialog boxes or questions that I couldn't understand. JMRI needed Java, which I didn't have installed on the computer. 

 

I've seen an iPad control JMRI using VNC. JMRI was running on a Raspberry Pi, so even that had enough processing power. I have no knowledge of how VNC works, how to install it or how much it costs, but it appeared to be like having a full computer screen on the iPad. I'd be grateful if anyone could suggest a totally free solution for a Macbook Pro 2015 and iPad Pro 9.7.

I have VNC viewer on my iPad, download from the AppStore, might even be free?

VNC for MacOS can be downloaded from realvnc.com , that's free as well.

[Izzy]

Thanks for that, particularly the info' about the iPad, saves me some fruitless effort trying. My Mac doesn't have parallels but it does have Boot Camp but this needs the disc to have a partition which I'm not sure I want to do that.

 

Chaz

 

Thanks - tell me more about Winebottler.

 

Chaz

 

 Full details are here:  http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/

 

With my Sprog 3 it just installed on my Mac without any dialog boxes or questions that I couldn't understand. JMRI needed Java, which I didn't have installed on the computer. 

 

I've seen an iPad control JMRI using VNC. JMRI was running on a Raspberry Pi, so even that had enough processing power. I have no knowledge of how VNC works, how to install it or how much it costs, but it appeared to be like having a full computer screen on the iPad. I'd be grateful if anyone could suggest a totally free solution for a Macbook Pro 2015 and iPad Pro 9.7.

 I have the latest Java version installed with no problems - it's a free download.

 

Izzy

[chaz]

A lot of very useful stuff in the above replies - thanks a lot lads! I will give it some thought and follow up the links.

 

I will soldier on with the ESU programmer for now, plugged into Fred Flintstone's laptop. After the Mac it is soooooooooooooo slow! Still if I boot it up and then go off and make a cup of tea I can live with it.

 

Chaz

 Full details are here:  http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/

 

 I have the latest Java version installed with no problems - it's a free download.

 

Izzy

 

In a Mac or an iPad?

[Izzy]

A lot of very useful stuff in the above replies - thanks a lot lads! I will give it some thought and follow up the links.

 

I will soldier on with the ESU programmer for now, plugged into Fred Flintstone's laptop. After the Mac it is soooooooooooooo slow! Still if I boot it up and then go off and make a cup of tea I can live with it.

 

Chaz

 

In a Mac or an iPad?

 

 In a Mac Chaz, a 15" macbook pro from around 2010 my son gave me. As I understand it, not having one to confirm this so perhaps others can, Java can't run on i-pads nor can the software for Macs, they are different. I'm thus not sure if either a sprog or JMRI can be ran from an i-pad or similar, andriod tablet etc - I don't think they have any suitable connections either, usb etc. I know that they can using raspberry pi but that is another kettle of fish so to speak, of which I am equally ignorant.

 

Izzy

[Nigelcliffe]

 In a Mac Chaz, a 15" macbook pro from around 2010 my son gave me. As I understand it, not having one to confirm this so perhaps others can, Java can't run on i-pads nor can the software for Macs, they are different. I'm thus not sure if either a sprog or JMRI can be ran from an i-pad or similar, andriod tablet etc - I don't think they have any suitable connections either, usb etc. I know that they can using raspberry pi but that is another kettle of fish so to speak, of which I am equally ignorant.

 

 

JMRI requires a specific level of Java support from the underlying machine.  That means one of Windows, MacOS and Linux - ie. a "proper" computer, not a phone or tablet.   

 

Small tablet devices (Android, iPad, etc) don't run the required Java versions, so JMRI doesn't run on them (exception being some expensive Windows "Surface" devices which run a full Windows version).     There is no indication that Apple (iPad) or Google (Android) will ever add the necessary features to their software to permit JMRI to run on them directly.

 

 

Tablet (and phone) devices can act as a interface to another machine running JMRI.  This might be either VNC software (screen-sharing), or using the Webserver and WiThrottle servers within JMRI (serving specific apps/screens to the tablet device).

 

 

A Raspberry Pi is a cheap option to run JMRI, but requires a little bit of reading up on how to set it up. 

 

 

- Nigel

[martin_wynne]

Codeweavers are working on a version of CrossOver for Android devices (if based on Intel chips). CrossOver is a paid-for version of Winebottler to run Windows software on Mac and Linux using Wine.

 

When CrossOver Android is released it will be possible to run many Windows programs on Android devices. See:

 

 https://www.codeweavers.com/products/crossover-android

 

Martin.

[chaz]

Golly, Chaps! A lot to think about. So many options. I have a brand new Mac in front of me so I'm a bit reluctant to start "polluting" it Windows stuff. So maybe my best route would be a SPROG and the MacOS version of JMRI.

 

Chaz

[martin_wynne]

Golly, Chaps! A lot to think about. So many options. I have a brand new Mac in front of me so I'm a bit reluctant to start "polluting" it Windows stuff. So maybe my best route would be a SPROG and the MacOS version of JMRI.

 

Hi Chaz,

 

Wine won't pollute your Mac with Windows stuff.

 

Wine is an operating system which pretends to be Windows but isn't: http://winehq.org/

 

Martin.