micknich2003 Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 I have among my "Bits Collection" four 26mm uninsulated driving wheels. At first glance these could be taken for a "Romford" product of the '50's but on closer inspection they clearly are not. They are cast in a superior metal to the Romford "Mazack" and have a machined finish, the crank pin hole is tapped 10BA, also the crank fiffers in shape from that of a Romford wheel. Does anyone know there origin? Mr first thought is Stanley Beeson. Thanks, Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 29, 2017 Share Posted September 29, 2017 A photo might help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Frankly not Beeson as they are exceedingly rare. They were made by him for his own models, with a small surplus being sold to other modellers. They were cast iron, with fully rounded spokes, scale appearance, and bear no comparison to Romford. He mainly produced O gauge, but there were OO made in small quantities. If they look like Romford they are Romford, but there was also "Bonds of Euston Road", whose wheels were very like Romford except for the centre fitting, All rivals to Romford used Mazak for the material, apart from Stewart Reidpath and Hamblings who used brass castings. Stephen, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted September 30, 2017 Author Share Posted September 30, 2017 Front and back view of the wheel. # Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Bonds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 If they are 4 mm scale they might be the Romford wheels that were available which had been lathe turned, though Miss Prism seems to recognise them as Bonds Would it be the case that Romford supplied a better quality casting which Bonds had finished off, which may be the ones I recall Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 If they are 4 mm scale they might be the Romford wheels that were available which had been lathe turned, ... That was an option offered by the West Coast Kit Centre. Memories of their adverts are flooding back now.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted September 30, 2017 Author Share Posted September 30, 2017 Bonds were adversising 4mm scale loco' drivers in the January 1955 "Model Railway News", 1/6 each plus post. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 My vote as before "Bonds of Euston Road", but there were one or two others, minor makers who copied Romford, but they may have been just re-labled Bonds anyway. The other major make was Hamblings, but they are Bakelite and brass. At one point Ks attempted to make a Romford copy, they did not work, as the square end quartered the wheel OK, but the crankpins were drilled out of quarter! Also at one point Kirdon got Muddocks the die cast people who made the Romford castings, to do a version for them. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted September 30, 2017 Share Posted September 30, 2017 Actually having a very hard look at the pictures, they may well be K's efforts as the crankpins do vaguely lie up with the square, but the spokes do not!!!, a mistake Romford or Bonds are unlikely to have done. If K's they are plated Mazak, which gives a better surface, but wears off after use. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted September 30, 2017 Author Share Posted September 30, 2017 Stephen, I attacked the back of a wheel with a scraper, either the plateing is very thick and hard, or the wheels are cast nickel silver, though 1/6 seems cheap for such a product. I may drill through one of my wheels and see what colour the swarf is. Yours, Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 One and six in 1955 is about just short of £2.00 today, So less than Scalelink at £3.00 each. If nickel silver they might be Sayer Chaplin, who would have had them made by Bonds for them. Bond's own were cast in brass or bronze for 0 gauge, plus cast iron for 0 gauge and gauge one. In the post war era many suppliers listed wheels, like KMR, made for them by other manufacturers in other trades like car parts. Most cast iron wheels were made by Stuart Turner of Henley on Thames, who supplied under their own name, as well as making for everybody else, including Beeson. Few made their own products, they bought in what was allowed by the Board of Trade, who strictly controlled all supply, although this was fading by 1955, although it did still affect building a layout as there was still a restriction on the amount of wood you could buy, I think 30 shillings was allowed unless you got special permission for house building. If you admitted that that the wood was for a model railway, in theory the lumber yard could refuse to supply. Of course people got around it purchasing second hand etc. Mr Harold Wilson was the head of the Board of trade who introduced the stupid regulations and restrictions that nearly broke the model trade. Stephen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 If nickel silver they might be Sayer Chaplin, who would have had them made by Bonds for them. Yes, that's a definite possibility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Trouble with Sayer Chaplin, information on what they did outside the famous etched parts is very scant. Hamblings owner in the 1970's stated that they did a full range of wheels at one point, along with masses of various parts never mentioned today,..He should have known as Hamblings bought all the stock after Sayer Chaplin closed down and still had some items in stock in the early 1970's. I can confirm the detail as I was working at Hamblings at the time. A maker who wandered in and out of making items and then dropping them was Kirdon, an electrical engineering company just like Sayer Chaplin,(and Graham Farish). Mr Howard also said Stewart Reidpath made some nickel wheels as an experiment, the process was the same as the brass wheels they made, by hot coining the metal into a die, but they found the nickel wore the dies out. Besides which SR used a push on wheel, not the square end type. Again he knew the details as Hamblings owned the SR remaining rights and stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 If the wheels are N/s then if you have a lathe they can be restored to 100% accurate finish, with a new boss silver soldered on the front to improve the crankpin boss appearance. A session with a set of Swiss files and a de-burrer would restore the spokes to fine scale appearance. Just got to find a 4 coupled loco that needs 26 mm diameter wheels! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 Stephen, I have drilled deep into a wheel, almost certainly it is made of N/S. Yes, I have a lathe, and remachining the four wheels and insulating two of them would not be a problem, but hardly worth the effort. As an aside, what caused Hamblings to cease tradeing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Retirement of the owners, a board decision made long after I left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I'll give you the one and six each plus postage at 1955 rates........ . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I'll give you the one and six each plus postage at 1955 rates........ . Tread carefully. lol Davey Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 .... Just got to find a 4 coupled loco that needs 26 mm diameter wheels! LSWR T9? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.A.T.Ford Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I think these wheels are Bonds and I have a reason for this thought. When my Father taught me scratch building he bought two chassis from Bonds one for a small prairie and one for a 57XX. Both were for outside third pick up but had similar wheels. Once the models were finished I was allowed into his railway room to see them run and then thrown out of the room and never saw them again until I was clearing left over bits when he died. for old-times sake I wanted to see if they could run and so replaced the wheels with Romfords. The square on the axles was slightly different and I had to ease out the Romford wheels with a square needle file to fit. With this in mind you should find the wheels a sloppy fit on a current squared axle. CAT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micknich2003 Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share Posted October 1, 2017 CAT, I never gave the matter a thought, but I'm sure you are spot on. I have just done a check, the wheels in question are a slack fit on a Romford style axle, yet a Romford fixing nut will not enter the wheel recess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Older Romford nuts would have fitted as Romford increased the nut diameter in the early 1950's to get a better grip on the castings. The nut on current wheels can be reduced to fit the old size. The square hole being bigger should not be a worry if the set is built up to fit drop in frames as a jig can hold the wheel whilst epoxy glue sets with the wheel running true, I doubt that the square hole and nut was a patented idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) Somebody mention Beeson Wheels? From a 1958 Model Railway News. Round axle holes rather than square. There was another brand of wheel that fitted (or was very similar to) Romford but the name escapes me! I'll have a look back through my posts as I think they are fitted to my 'Mystery Manchester Prairie' discussed some time ago. Edit - got it! CIMCO. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105846-mystery-manchester-prairie/ Edited October 5, 2017 by 5050 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Cimco wheels were not Nickel Silver though, they were mazak castings as were most makes, due mainly from the popularity of using car parts makers to do the castings after the war. The Beeson wheels were shell cast iron, either produced by Beeson, or more likely by Stuart Turner, using their expertise in the delicate process that produced the finest cast items. It was far superior to sand castings. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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